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  1. #261
    Community Member WruntJunior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fmalfeas View Post
    You know, people talk about how you should get a Torc instead. I've never seen one drop. I know people who've tried for over a year to get a Torc and failed.

    It's like saying you should just get a Ring of Spell Storing.

    You should not be required to ransack a chest every week for a year in order to play your class. Screw that.
    In all fairness, the base torc isn't THAT rare - though some people are very unlucky. If you're unlucky, grab a friend and get them to run it with you.

    As a side-note, it took a total of 60 DQ2s to get both a non-epic torc (for TRing...incidentally, the day I got that torc in my 20th end reward right before TRing to this life, I got another torc on Youngwrunt just by being the only person to roll on it in EE DQ2 >_>) and an epic torc (for cap) on Wruntjunior. It's not something you can instantly get, but it's nowhere near as bad as, say, the RoSS. Now, making an epic torc...getting the seal, shard, and scroll really can take a year or more, even with how easy the scroll is to get now.

    Really, the most important thing for people to learn so that they don't use pots is to learn proper SP management. Just knowing when to use insta-deaths, nukes, cc, slas, and the like save a lot of mana - combining this knowledge with knowledge of quest layouts lets you maximize the utility of your SP while minimizing resource expenditure, which is the objective of pretty much any caster that isn't made of money.
    Last edited by WruntJunior; 11-17-2012 at 04:58 AM.
    Eternal Infinity: Wruntjunior ~ DI Sorc // Youngwrunt ~ Survivalist Paladin // Wruntarrow ~ Monkcher // Wruntsonmonk ~ Wis-Based Monk

  2. #262
    Community Member pHo3nix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xezrak View Post
    Hmm maybe I was doing something wrong, I tried torcing with archers (I also have conc-op) and I was barely regaining any sp, not sure how long it takes you to fill up the sp bar on epic elite archers? Although just scrolling up I agree completely that 1-20 is really easy with a torc.

    Edit: Either way I think we both agree on the point the OP is making, SP pots should be on a timer or max 1 per quest etc.
    Well, it depends also on your PRR, DR..but archers are quite good to refill sp..and i got only torc + con opp item, i think that adding a weapon will make it even better And heal yourself with scrolls/ free clw capstone if fvs, don't waste sp
    Cannith: Hazrael--Nyal--Thalax

  3. #263
    Community Member gallantian's Avatar
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    Besides, with a cool down on these pots, how else will my barb get rid of the feeblemind he gets spammed with. Geez in some quests he has to sink like 10 majors!

  4. #264
    Community Member Vint's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pHo3nix View Post
    It would only affect those without the skill to manage their sp or those that want to buy their completion.
    I am not on an "im uber" kick, but a good chunk of people in game (maybe not majority) have very little skill and rely on this to have a good time.

    Do you think alienating these people would be healthy for the game?

    I could see the grief in another way. If a "chugger" joined your party and was asked to pass out buffs or haste, and replied: "Sorry, only have enough mana for 13 wails, 7 disco balls, 4 fingers. Get your own GH, blur, resist, and haste". Healer type might be just as bad. BYOH would be more prevalent as people are not as good at mana management.

    Not to mention, that Turbine would be losing a ton of money on the deal.

    I am no "chugger", but I think it would be a terrible idea.
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  5. #265
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WruntJunior View Post
    Easy plan for people who do not provide their character names but still make outrageous claims, such as never using a mana potion on their arcane: assume it's because they don't have an arcane. :P

    Edit: I find it nigh impossible to believe that, unless you either have no SP pots or no arcane, you would never use SP pots on an arcane. Pugging a lot (which I find tremendously fun, as you really never know what will happen), I tend to use SP pots every now and then just to give that little extra bump to make a "boss at 1% health" fail into a "victory", or similar close calls. Granted, while soloing I can take my time and not need to use potions (though I'm usually too impatient for that if I'm doing something like soloing epics pre-u14), but if you're grouping with anyone else, you're extremely likely to needing to pot on occasion, even if it's a very rare occasion. As a side-note, leveling speed on an arcane compared to a melee has to do with two simple things: AoE damage, and haste. I guarantee an arcane will level faster than a melee for 95% of people, but that's because haste and AoE damage lets you run to only the fights you need to do, and get them done quickly (I don't count invis, as it comes in clickies).
    I am used to playing permadeath conditions, where one doesnt just get to twink themselves and buy scads of resources from the DDO store. Most of the game population does not play by those types of self imposed standard. The one self imposed standard I see alot of in game is "if it makes completing quests or acquiring loot take less time or effort, do it" and having stacks of mana potions in their inventory is part of that plan.

    Guzzling mana potions to victory is no longer the exception but the rule. It is expected for healers to carry them so the other 10-11 people in raids dont have to "waste their time" with a quest failure due to semantic details such as having to learn to play the game whatsoever, which totally smacks of effort. This is why you do not believe my claim, because you are so used to playing in an environment where guzzling mana potions is the norm as such that you cant imagine that someone else can abstain from using them and run difficult content successfully. Turbine weened most of the population onto the P2W teet quite nicely, and slowly enough to where people will deny that this game is balanced on using mana potions liberally to compensate for having to learn to play.

    This is why I find it hilarious when those grizzled old vets making fun of the rest of the PUG population threads come up. Many of the vets in this game arent better players and better metagamers than the newbies are. They just know where all the easy buttons are and the rest of the PUG population doesnt yet. They always try to make it sound like its a play quality disparity situation however, to cover up the fact that alot of that good loot their toons wear was actually acquired by mashing the known easy buttons harder and more often than random PUGs do, and then putting up a front that they had to learn how to play when dinosaurs ruled the earth.

    Quote Originally Posted by WruntJunior View Post
    As a side-note, leveling speed on an arcane compared to a melee has to do with two simple things: AoE damage, and haste. I guarantee an arcane will level faster than a melee for 95% of people, but that's because haste and AoE damage lets you run to only the fights you need to do, and get them done quickly (I don't count invis, as it comes in clickies).
    Haste comes in clickies as well, and run speed is easier to build on a melee than a caster, as taking a barbarian or ranger level hurts the melee far less than it hurts the caster. His claim was that there is no power disparity because melee is sooooo easy to play. The rest of us know this simply is not the case, but of course people trying to disagree with me wont admit that so you try to hem abnd haw about specific details rather than coming right out and saying that anyone who thinks melee is as powerful as casters are off their rocker. Youre more than willing to accuse me of making outrageous claims, but when you hear stuff like this by someone who disagrees with me you wont call that out. Hilarious. I bet if I was the one trying to claim that melee were as powerful as casters, my entire fanclub® would have piled on by now and no one would remember what this thread is even about.
    Last edited by Chai; 11-17-2012 at 08:44 AM.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  6. #266
    Community Member tylerdurden77's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xaxx View Post
    to the op and the agreement that follows, you know how this will end if they add a timer right?

    *update 18 lamania release notes

    *NEW three minuite cool down timer has been added to all potion usage except for ddo store potions
    *new DDo store potion prices will be increased by 5% to 30% depending on the potion in question

    would you still like to pursue adding a timer to any type of potion knowing that something like above is a quite likely outcome if things were to ever change?

    Sorry guys I'm not spamming, I"m not agreeing with your, or disagreeing with you. Simply stating what is likely to happen should you guys get your wish.
    /not signed.... because of this. It is a slippery slope and I really would not want to wade through the over 9000 posts about how "this is the last straw (again)" and "I'm rage-quitting but first let me post about it for two months".

    Seriously though, it's okay to post about how you don't agree with some peoples' playstyles and vent about how it bothers you. It bothers me too. When I see someone chugging mana pots just because they want to skip shrines and show off that they are the ultimate zerg-master and cannot be stopped, I think "what a nerd".

    But you are forgetting that you can choose to not party with people that you don't like. Whether it's playstyle, skill level, personality, or whatever. I personally don't like grouping with people that talk non-stop through the entire quest. Bragging about their build usually. It's not something that I can know upfront so I just deal with it for the first quest and usually drop group after the first quest. One can do the same when encountering a mana-chugger.

    TL/DR: You have options. Don't group with people you don't enjoy playing DDO with. Plain and simple.

  7. #267

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    {snip} The one self imposed standard I see alot of in game is "if it makes completing quests or acquiring loot take less time or effort, do it" and having stacks of mana potions in their inventory is part of that plan.

    Guzzling mana potions to victory is no longer the exception but the rule. It is expected for healers to carry them so the other 10-11 people in raids dont have to "waste their time" with a quest failure due to semantic details such as having to learn to play the game whatsoever, which totally smacks of effort.{snip}
    See in these two excerpts you're demonstrating a decided lack of willingness to understand that there are people who are different to you.

    You see you like the challenge, you like to have to learn nuances and get skilled at the game.

    Some people like blasting through quests without thought while chugging pots.

    Some have no desire to 'learn' the game or acquire any skill at it and will use whatever 'easy buttons' to facilitate their enjoyment.

    Personally I like challenge, I want to complete quests through my skill, but I can also understand that not everyone is the same and will argue that every play-style has a place in the game.

  8. #268
    Community Member Masterspud's Avatar
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    After much reading; I must say there many posts that I agree with and disagree with. Here is my two cents on it; If as a few have stated you are in a group and you don't like their style of play, leave! Have I used pots, yes I have, lets my rouge uses Heroism occasionally when he runs into a trap he can not find, my fighter has used healing pots, although as someone else stated a cleric hire is by far the cheapest healing out there. My cleric has used mana pots although never as described in the op.

    Turbine makes money off of selling stuff to us, and thats simply that. To get all worked up because some folks may overdo it is rediculous in my opinion. Its not my money. Do I think its silly when someone uses five spirit cakes in an elite run, yes, yes I do. Should I run in hear and post a thread on it? Not likely.

    If you want to make the game harder for you, then I suggest banking all your high speed gear, grab a +1 dagger and run a raid solo. Someone else stated that this is a slippery slope, I somewhat agree, because if you do get them to put a timer on mana usage of say 5 min on elite, all of those who zerg mid range elites will be finished, because the healers that go with them will be doing very little resurecting.

    Personally, I am slow, not being an 'uber-gamer' I have been chewed out in game by some who say, "the rouge is not fast enough", "the healer was too slow and I died". I simply leave those groups. I pug often because we are a small guild and it is often that I am the only one on-line. I prefer to make my way through a dungeon at a steady pace, but learn them as well. No matter what toon I am playing. So mana normally is not an issue for either my healer or mage. My play style often conflicts with the zerger, and so I try to stay away from them, but if I do ask to join a group that has 'hard farm' in the lfm, then I know we are running top speed and prepare for such a run. Don't party with folks you don't like and Don't eat the blue pill
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  9. #269
    Community Member Masterspud's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ninjadwarf_uk View Post
    See in these two excerpts you're demonstrating a decided lack of willingness to understand that there are people who are different to you.

    You see you like the challenge, you like to have to learn nuances and get skilled at the game.

    Some people like blasting through quests without thought while chugging pots.

    Some have no desire to 'learn' the game or acquire any skill at it and will use whatever 'easy buttons' to facilitate their enjoyment.

    Personally I like challenge, I want to complete quests through my skill, but I can also understand that not everyone is the same and will argue that every play-style has a place in the game.
    Agreed
    An old man playing the electronic version of the game he has loved for thirty years.
    Officer, Hands of Chaos
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  10. #270
    The Hatchery vVvAiaynAvVv's Avatar
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    I have always said this about people who want such nerfs.......the ability to make this game harder for yourself is actually almost entirely in your own hands and the way you play.

    You can't make everyone play like you and you will be hard pressed to have people take you in there groups if you say something like......."I don't carry Mnemonics with me because they are OP'ed"....you will shortly be blacklisted by probably almost the whole server LOL

    When I see a dramatic change like this asked for I have to question if the person asking for it maybe just needs a vacation or needs to just form their own little circle...no one is stopping you from doing either....so why would you try to stop others from their way?

    A great way to find challenge, stimulation, and fun again is to stop obsessing over one game and do something else for a while....I rarely ever stick with one game for more than 4-6 months at a time.....it simply gets way to boring for me then I start talking lunacy like which is being discussed here
    Last edited by vVvAiaynAvVv; 11-17-2012 at 09:43 AM.

    Scratt for president!!!!

  11. #271
    Community Member mobrien316's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vVvAiaynAvVv View Post
    I have always said this about people who want such nerfs.......the ability to make this game harder for yourself is actually almost entirely in your own hands and the way you play.
    Agreed.


    Every time I hear someone complaining about how this or that makes the game too easy, I ask, "Are you playing permadeath?" Invariably the answer is "no."


    This game can be as easy or as challenging as you wish it to be. If anyone in DDO is soloing all content on elite and playing permadeath and STILL complaining that the game is too easy, I will tip my hat to them and listen respectfully to their complaints.

    For everyone else - if you think something makes the game too easy, don't use that something.
    All on Thelanis: Archenpaul Sixblade, Archernicus Thornwood, Gregorovic Redcloak, Hermanius Brightblade, Jaklomeo Evermug, Jonathraxius Kane, and Praetoreus Silvershield.

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  12. #272
    Community Member pHo3nix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vVvAiaynAvVv View Post
    I have always said this about people who want such nerfs.......the ability to make this game harder for yourself is actually almost entirely in your own hands and the way you play.
    In all kind of games and sports you are supposed to play at the best of your possibilities if you want to win, you are not supposed to limit yourself to get some challenge..when you play chess you do not disable half of your brain if the other player sucks, when you play football you do not play blindfolded if the other team sucks to have a challenge, you just destroy them and then think how boring it was.

    Considering there are 4 different difficulties, if someone is not up for the top one just play something you can handle. If a party is not up for EE that's fine, it can run EH, if it isn't ready for that it can run EN or even EC.
    But it seems that most people cannot accept they are not ready for something and need better skill/gear/tactics: they want to run the top difficulty anyway, just chugging their way to the end.

    @Vint: well, it might not be good for turbine income in the near future, but it will be good for the player skills and in the long run skilled players are better than noob ones for the whole playerbase, leading to a better game, and a better game leads to more $$ My statement is blatantly false if people love to always remain at the same skill level and haven't any desire to improve.
    Cannith: Hazrael--Nyal--Thalax

  13. #273
    The Hatchery vVvAiaynAvVv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pHo3nix View Post
    In all kind of games and sports you are supposed to play at the best of your possibilities if you want to win, you are not supposed to limit yourself to get some challenge..when you play chess you do not disable half of your brain if the other player sucks, when you play football you do not play blindfolded if the other team sucks to have a challenge, you just destroy them and then think how boring it was.

    Considering there are 4 different difficulties, if someone is not up for the top one just play something you can handle. If a party is not up for EE that's fine, it can run EH, if it isn't ready for that it can run EN or even EC.
    But it seems that most people cannot accept they are not ready for something and need better skill/gear/tactics: they want to run the top difficulty anyway, just chugging their way to the end.

    @Vint: well, it might not be good for turbine income in the near future, but it will be good for the player skills and in the long run skilled players are better than noob ones for the whole playerbase, leading to a better game, and a better game leads to more $$ My statement is blatantly false if people love to always remain at the same skill level and haven't any desire to improve.
    OMG...you are actually going to compare this MMO to RL sports....come on really?!?! really?!?! LMAO

    Scratt for president!!!!

  14. #274
    Community Member pHo3nix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vVvAiaynAvVv View Post
    OMG...you are actually going to compare this MMO to RL sports....come on really?!?! really?!?! LMAO
    What's the difference? Be it a RL sport or a videogame you usually play them for the same reason: have fun trying to win and improving your performance if you are not up for the challenge. You usually do not buy skills and victory

    I've never met someone that plays anything just to lose.
    Cannith: Hazrael--Nyal--Thalax

  15. #275
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    you play the melee
    I don't waste my life

    1) dating fat women
    2) cranking out over 10,000 posts on the forum for a game
    3) playing toons meant for children

    How many of the above you do on your time is your problem. I won't be joining you. Ever.

  16. #276
    Community Member Cyndrome's Avatar
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    Yeah. I hate it when people play a way I don't want them to play. Especially when it does nothing to my toons. So stop them now Turbine. GRRRR.

  17. #277

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    Quote Originally Posted by pHo3nix View Post
    What's the difference? Be it a RL sport or a videogame you usually play them for the same reason: have fun trying to win and improving your performance if you are not up for the challenge. You usually do not buy skills and victory

    I've never met someone that plays anything just to lose.
    Given the number of doping scandals, I am not sure that is accurate. I think folks in RL sports do the exact same thing.

  18. #278
    Community Member mobrien316's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pHo3nix View Post
    In all kind of games and sports you are supposed to play at the best of your possibilities if you want to win, you are not supposed to limit yourself to get some challenge..when you play chess you do not disable half of your brain if the other player sucks, when you play football you do not play blindfolded if the other team sucks to have a challenge, you just destroy them and then think how boring it was.

    Considering there are 4 different difficulties, if someone is not up for the top one just play something you can handle. If a party is not up for EE that's fine, it can run EH, if it isn't ready for that it can run EN or even EC.
    But it seems that most people cannot accept they are not ready for something and need better skill/gear/tactics: they want to run the top difficulty anyway, just chugging their way to the end.

    @Vint: well, it might not be good for turbine income in the near future, but it will be good for the player skills and in the long run skilled players are better than noob ones for the whole playerbase, leading to a better game, and a better game leads to more $$ My statement is blatantly false if people love to always remain at the same skill level and haven't any desire to improve.
    If you are playing chess against someone who you routinely beat all the time, and you are bored, you should find more challenging competition.

    If someone in DDO complained that they ran everything over-level, on casual, and that it was so easy that the game was no fun, I think most (if not all) people would tell them that options exist to make the game more challenging and they should use them if they find the way they play to be too easy.

    If the complainer's response was, "Well, I only like to play optimal builds with optimal gear and I don't like any difficutly except casual, and why should I have to do anything but that in order to get a challenge?" ... Would that make sense to anyone?


    To me, if you want to complain that the game is too easy, play permadeath with all the usual gear restrictions. That option exists for everyone, and if you choose not to utilize it and just keep complaining, you're not making much sense to me.
    All on Thelanis: Archenpaul Sixblade, Archernicus Thornwood, Gregorovic Redcloak, Hermanius Brightblade, Jaklomeo Evermug, Jonathraxius Kane, and Praetoreus Silvershield.

    Cogito ergo summopere periculosus.

  19. #279
    Community Member pHo3nix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mobrien316 View Post

    To me, if you want to complain that the game is too easy, play permadeath with all the usual gear restrictions. That option exists for everyone, and if you choose not to utilize it and just keep complaining, you're not making much sense to me.
    Ok thx for the advice, next time i'm going to play football i'll only jump on my left leg if the other team sucks, so the fact of hitting the ball will already be a challenge..
    Cannith: Hazrael--Nyal--Thalax

  20. #280
    The Hatchery vVvAiaynAvVv's Avatar
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    A video game is pretty much purely mental......if you play it with a blindfold on your are not running the risk of becoming paralyzed or ending up in a hospital bed......the comparison to an activity that is both physical, mental, as well as potentially dangerous if not done correctly is at best obscene.

    Try again plz......and you can play pretty well in this game possibly even to your best capability if you choose not to carry mnemonics...just don't let the people you party with know that.

    So yeah...that is completely on the player....and is their choice.....if you even went to play social non-pro football with people with a blindfold on someone would probably slam you super hard just for being such a moron.

    If you went to do that in semi-pro or pro football you would not even be allowed on the field.

    Scratt for president!!!!

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