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Cogito ergo summopere periculosus.
The second is how I got sucked into this debacle. I don't think current content requires SP potions, so, while I don't like that they are in the store, they are not hurting anything.
I jumped in early on thinking we would talk about options because I can see how sp potions could (not will, but could) be a pivot about which Turbine decides to move and make content harder based on expected sp potion usage. This also fits with all the people who say Turbine will never take them out of the store because they bring in revenue.
I was, naively, expecting a discussion and I threw my hat into the ring on the side of what happens if we do limit sp potions in some way. Maybe a better question to ask instead of talking about ways to smartly limit sp potions, would have been to ask how many people think Turbine will eventually balance the game content around sp potion use???
While the OP specifically mentioned timers, I think his intent was to apply some sort of limit on them. (I'm sure he will chime in if I have incorrect.) It is based on that, that I would think the discussion of any sp potion limits could stay here. All the interested parties are here and the arguments that brought me around to x per instead on a timer are also here.
(And maybe I'm not even understanding your heal scroll thing after reading a few of your more recent posts.)
And thanks for coming back around, this sort of discussion is far more enjoyable.
I cannot see into the hearts of everyone posting here and cannot promise you that noone is coming here with that motive. I can tell you that not everyone has that motive.
Last edited by redoubt; 12-05-2012 at 11:27 PM.
Ok, I'll agree to an SP pot timer if you remove all of the buffs on your ship. If you want to remain consitant, those ship buffs do more to balance than SP pots EVER could.
If no, then they are of little consequence other than to rush low level content.
If yes, then you can see where turbine adjusted the difficulty of the game to account for the power that is available. Whether or not everyone uses it is irrelevant.
(No, I'm not being condescending or asking a question with a "known" answer. I'm trying to debate without simply repeating the same argument the same way. Thank you for understanding.)
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But this still allows for the argument that there is a whole mass of players that are not yet there.
There is a lot of pressure that is put on divines and casters in raids. While this is not always a problem for people that have played for years and or are just really good at playing games, it is for a huge portion of the population.
So that they aren't ridiculed by these same players, some will drink some pots to compensate for their sub-optimum play.
That poor sod that has to wait for timers and is made to solo base 3 or some such thing might just give up on playing a caster or a divine. It's much much easier to play a melee in these cases because the pressure is quite a bit less, they really don't have to worry about conservation, just play a bit of keyboard piano and left click. While I am oversimplifying the melee role, I'm trying to convey that the uninitiated players should have the freedom to learn the caster and divine role without being yelled at or laughed at because they mis-managed their SP.
I was given this opportunity to learn and it took me quite a while(some raids I am still learning to go without a pot)... which is why I vehemently support the hands-off muh pots approach. This whole notion of "if you don't know it, you shouldn't be running it, just fail" is what scares people away(at best from playing those classes or content ever and at worst from the game as a whole). No one really looks at that gimp melee as a reason for the wipe, but that divine or caster will get the stinkeye with some of these uberer-than-thou folks.
[QUOTE=redoubt;4798155]Many people are trying to paint this discussion as "trying to force a playstyle".
I cannot see into the hearts of everyone posting here and cannot promise you that noone is coming here with that motive. I can tell you that not everyone has that motive. [/quote} So how many of the 5 people posting on your side are that way?
For me personally, I dont' think it will destroy the game... It will simpyl make it less fun, and less appealign to the masses. Caring what some guy who's crying about not having enough people to run the very end game HIS way would be a bad business decision for Turbine.If that is true, why are so many people saying that restricting sp potions will destroy the game and the fun of the game? (I happen to agree with the statement you made, but you've confused me with what appear to be contradictory statements.)
I can only put fo rth MY opinion that a change like this would lead to less people playing. It will not increase the skill or amount of the .05% of the plaeyrs taht reach the very end game, and that number grows fewer and fewer each passing day. Because of changes proposed by people like the thread starter. Turbine has jumped through hoops to ease access to the game over the last 2 years, why would they change that now? such as we have now, server side lag, poor communication with customers etc. IMO, Turbine should be listening more to the average everyday player.. NOT teh self-appointed know-it-all uber plaeyrs with every piece of gear, etc etc, since the later demographic of players represents a couple %, tops of the games population.
The onyl change I see that is even remotely possible here is taht this thread has given Trubine the idea to put timers on loot generated SP pots, and to NOT put them on store pots..... And if that happens.. I'm sure yourself and Matt will be beloved DDO wide.....
With NEW leadership perhaps they can right the ship....
To get unlimited SP you have to spend real life money. There are not enough mana pots in the AH to provide a steady stream of Spell points to everyone that wants to use them.
The same cannot be said for melees and their ability to go through a quest. How about we limit the availability of HP pots to what is dropped in chests and sold in the DDO store. Remove the favor pots, remove the vendor pots and then we can finally have a balanced system in place.
Hell Melee's have it so easy that they can get their mojo from other 4 other classes if they are fleshie and 2 other classes if they are WF. While casters are limited to just the class or hire that might have 15 to 20 actions to replenish SP for free.
No we do not need to remove SP pots, if anything they should be made more available for those that want them with vendors that sell them and a house that sells them after reaching a certain amount of favor with the major pots giving -10 to stats and a 30 second slow just like Silver Flame pots do for melee's.
However, I also reserve the right not to group with anyone using the aforementioned items regularly to complete quests. These items, in my opinion, turn people into lazy players who never fully develop the skills needed to play without resorting to opening their wallets.
I don't know what else you guys saying on this post and why it still gets so much attention after a week or so it has been posted... i'm not going to read all the things before, too much though i want to say one little thing.
The current balance between Melees & Casters sees the firsts having more "power" than the seconds in the current endgame content. If you guys put timer on Major Pots you would continue to unbalance the things. If you don't agree with me then you haven't played both type of classes enough.
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That's the same damage per unit of time, just for longer.
potions don't increase the rate of casting, they increase the duration of casting (and that's only useful if there is further need for casting).
You're still missing the point, mostly because you're so focused on trying to "prove" your point that you're not able to even see what my point is, specifically.
You're misconstruing "damage per unit of time" for "total number of casts", which are two completely different things.
When Red bars run out, you're dead and can't do anything.
When Blue bars run out, you're still alive and able to use items, clickies, etc.
When Red bars run out, everyone is affected.
Only casters are even affected by the loss or gain of spell points.
Keeping someone alive allows for the use of every single power/ability in the game for longer. Period. Red bars are more powerful than blue bars, because they represent the ability to continue doing ANYTHING you are able to do.
If your red bar runs out, it doesn't matter how much blue bar you had left.
Keeping red bars from running out on your own party while draining the red bars of the enemies is kinda the whole point of 99% of the game. I'd say they're pretty important.
Even blue bars are devoted entirely to that pursuit...affecting red bars, either directly or indirectly.
Your argument is invalidated.
I like drinking SP pots when my blue bar runs out. Please don't put a timer on them.
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