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  1. #1461
    Hatchery Hero Sonos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redoubt View Post
    Actually, its non of the above. Your (or whoevers) point about pre drinking is valid. I think pre-drinking would be a worse situation than we have now.

    You also said anything that doesn't fix the problem of pre-drinking is moot before it is even said. I offered a counter to pre-drinking that would:

    1: still allow people to use sp potions
    2: stop pre-drinking
    3: apply some, even if minor, restriction on them

    Why am I a D-bag for that?
    My apologies, I thought that by asking the question that had only one pre-determined answer was not sincere in trying to get an opinion.

    Also I would not call you a d-bag please re-read. Let's get passed that, I get a little wound up sometimes.

    The answer to your question then is yes, of course it would curb drinking. It's such a loaded question. The OP is about putting a timer on SP pots. Pre-drinking would counter the timer. Reducing pots to a finite amount is not what's on the table. We can go that route but that requires it's own nerfing thread I think. I mention the heal scrolls as a direct argument to the OP. I support the idea that people would by-pass the nerf by pre-drinking. I don't mind going even further tangentially with you but your counter was not in the realm of the original pot-timer-nerfing statement.

    You are offering a whole other solution that might be better served on another thread. And I'm not being dismissive just because you didn't want to address the heal scroll thing because "it was a bit too far", it's just not going to help the conversation stay on track. But please feel free, don't let me stop you, I mean that sincerely.
    Last edited by Sonos; 12-05-2012 at 07:17 PM.

  2. #1462
    Community Member Postumus's Avatar
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    After 74 pages of awesome, I'm now convinced... that instead of a cooldown timer, Turbine needs to offer a usage timer, like a meter on a gas pump, which I can activate whenever I want a steady stream of 100 SPs/second mana regeneration. At the end of each play session, TPs would be automatically deducted from my account based on how long the mana pump was in use or they could sell mana pump clickies in increments of time: 15 seconds, 30 seconds, 60 seconds.

    Now THAT's pay to win baby!

  3. #1463
    Community Member cpito's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Postumus View Post
    Now THAT's pay to win baby!
    ALL NEW TO THE DDO STORE!! The Introvenous Mana Pump!
    "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and it may be necessary from time to time to give a stupid or misinformed beholder a black eye." - Miss Piggy
    Someone ever tries to kill you, you try to kill 'em right back.~ Cpt. Mal Reynolds
    ~Peechie Keene~ THAC0

  4. #1464
    Community Member Top_Dog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    It is just high time the devs did this. I would suggest a one minute timer before a player can drink another mana pot. I do not have any problem with failing more quests because quite frankly if I have to drink mana pots to beat a quest I do not deserve to beat the quest. Failing quests just makes the victories that much more sweet and encourages higher quality game play. There are no mana pots in D&D.

    This game is too easy. 4 or 5 years ago DDO was so much more difficult. If you the devs are opposed to this on the normal or hard difficulties at least consider it for the elite difficulty. Thanks for striving to improve the game play.
    I'm glad that you have "mastered" DDO, but like so many others that whine about the difficulty of the game: please DON'T.

    If this game is so easy for you, make changes that effect you (time your own pot drinking for instance). Is timing your own toon's actions so hard? Why should everyone play like you want?

    Quit deciding that DDO needs to be made harder (or easier for that matter) for everyone else. Let it be and let everyone play what and how they want to play.

    Run through dungeons with no armor on if that's what makes you happy.

  5. #1465
    Community Member Gunga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Dog View Post

    Run through dungeons with no armor on if that's what makes you happy.
    The women of Khyber wouldn't be able to contain themselves.

  6. #1466
    Community Member cpito's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunga View Post
    The women of Khyber wouldn't be able to contain themselves.
    We totally blabbed about Great Vomit Debacle of '09. They're prepared.
    "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and it may be necessary from time to time to give a stupid or misinformed beholder a black eye." - Miss Piggy
    Someone ever tries to kill you, you try to kill 'em right back.~ Cpt. Mal Reynolds
    ~Peechie Keene~ THAC0

  7. #1467
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    Quote Originally Posted by mobrien316 View Post
    Are you under the impression that Turbine watches the debates on this forum and then alters their plans according to who "won"?
    Not at all, but this "debate" shines a light on something.
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    Quote Originally Posted by zwiebelring View Post
    Ape_Man does clever trolling nothing more. Don't feed him/her.

  8. #1468
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mubjon View Post
    Why is that such a problem? They let melee's have an unlimited health bar purchasable with TP or plat. Why should casters be treated differently for their source of damage dealing?
    Game balance. They can get rid of the endless red bar in the store too and I wouldnt mind. But if you compare the two in a discussion of degree rather than gravitating to absolutes, mana potions are orders of magnitude more powerful than any healing supplies that can be had in the store.
    Last edited by Chai; 12-05-2012 at 08:37 PM.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  9. #1469
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ape_Man View Post
    Curious, does Turbine have an opinion on this issue? Are they completely okay from a game balance perspective with casters having a unlimited blue-bar purchasable with TP or plat?
    Actions speak louder than any words could on this issue. Unlimited supply of mana potions in the store for years now. Its been regarded as completely OK for that same amount of time. Oddly enough, there are quite a few things that have been nerfed that cause far less of a game balance issue.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  10. #1470
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    Actions speak louder than any words could on this issue. Unlimited supply of mana potions in the store for years now. Its been regarded as completely OK for that same amount of time. Oddly enough, there are quite a few things that have been nerfed that cause far less of a game balance issue.
    Stuff that has been nerfed didn't have a direct affect on the bottom line.

    At the same time the content's not balanced to REQUIRE stacks of SP pots to complete. As long as the content is balance so good players don't require it I'm not as concerned.
    Personal d000m level: 83%

    Quote Originally Posted by zwiebelring View Post
    Ape_Man does clever trolling nothing more. Don't feed him/her.

  11. #1471
    Community Member Singular's Avatar
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    Who cares how other people get through a quest? Putting restrictions on them because you disagree with their play style is inappropriate. If you don't want to chug pots every 5 minutes, don't. Don't try to enforce your version of playing on others.

  12. #1472
    Community Member Gunga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Singular View Post
    Who cares how other people get through a quest? Putting restrictions on them because you disagree with their play style is inappropriate. If you don't want to chug pots every 5 minutes, don't. Don't try to enforce your version of playing on others.
    But if you don't slow down the game for others than some people won't ever be able to be as good, and that's not fair.

  13. #1473
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ape_Man View Post
    Stuff that has been nerfed didn't have a direct affect on the bottom line.

    At the same time the content's not balanced to REQUIRE stacks of SP pots to complete. As long as the content is balance so good players don't require it I'm not as concerned.
    No quest requires stacks of potions to complete. There are so many rest shrines in this game, I just can't believe that anyone relies on mana potions to get through a quest - especially with the mana regeneration to 12 sp and cheap PRE spells.

  14. #1474
    Community Member psi0nix's Avatar
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    But it's for their own good don't you see ? - just like I use an Intel chip in my pc, everyone should be made to do this, DDO should not be allowed to run on an AMD, please devs fix this "balance" issue. . . .

    makes about as much sense as this thread. . .

    There are just too many in this game (or is it just the forums?) that demand others play the way they want them too, it's almost as if chai and friends 'own' the game and they created it and they will enforce their playstyle cause after all DDO was made by them for them and no one else. We are all just bumbling idiots who cannot understand the complexity of 'game balance' where these things that seemingly have no effect on their game play really DO, I mean how can we possibly allow this to happen ?

    In fact, we should really just hand over all our accounts to people like chai and let them play the game for us, since that's the only way we would ever play "properly" ...........

  15. #1475
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    Quote Originally Posted by Singular View Post
    No quest requires stacks of potions to complete. There are so many rest shrines in this game, I just can't believe that anyone relies on mana potions to get through a quest - especially with the mana regeneration to 12 sp and cheap PRE spells.
    Yet there is almost violent nerd-rage insulting the OP's idea.
    Personal d000m level: 83%

    Quote Originally Posted by zwiebelring View Post
    Ape_Man does clever trolling nothing more. Don't feed him/her.

  16. #1476
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunga View Post
    The old "Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime." trick? I buy my fish in bulk, usually during huge sales. Let's just say I'm not hungry.
    Ah HAH! But ban the fish and the man who can no longer fish will pay handsomely for a halibutt!

    ColdCarpone
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodasch View Post
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  17. #1477
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coldest View Post
    Ah HAH! But ban the fish and the man who can no longer fish will pay handsomely for a halibutt!

    ColdCarpone
    Somebody's been watching WAY too much Boardwalk Empire . . .
    Personal d000m level: 83%

    Quote Originally Posted by zwiebelring View Post
    Ape_Man does clever trolling nothing more. Don't feed him/her.

  18. #1478
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archangel666 View Post
    If two players are doing nothing but spamming Fireballs then there is indeed a problem, but it has nothing to do with SP pots. It has to do with using inefficient spells.

    While I understand that you feel there is an issue that needs to be resolved, I can't honestly say that I see it in game.

    The number of players proportionally who play in such a way is rather tiny. The vast majority of players simply don't down pot after pot simply so that they can spam more fireballs (To use your example). They instead use pots sparingly if at all and only occasionally will they drink a few if lag spikes happen or mobs get lucky shots in and party wipes are close.

    Changing SP pots when there isn't actually a need for it will simply irritate players and prevent those occasional party saves which will further irritate people. To compensate people might choose to simply drink pots as a "safety net" of sorts and not let themselves become low. This would actually lead to more pots being drank.

    Or they might simply say "You know what? Sod this, there's other games I could be playing which are more fun."
    Ah but if two people leave House Kundarak at 6am, one is wearing 15% strider boots and the other is a 18th level monk. The strider fellow is heading to House P via the portal. The monk goes through the Market place. Who drinks more mana pots to get there first?
    bred of an Ice Flenser and a Djinni Ravensguard
    "You people are insatiable." - Tarrant.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rodasch View Post
    I do, it's true. I have a stick figure drawing with the word "Coldest" drawn above it and an arrow pointing from the name down to the drawing...

  19. #1479
    Hatchery Hero Sonos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ape_Man View Post
    Yet there is almost violent nerd-rage insulting the OP's idea.
    Hyperbole you mean? :P

    Nothing I do in game affects the OP's level of enjoyment or play, so to me it's a the opposite of what you are saying here as it applies to MY game. It's not a PvP game, were it so I would completely be on board with making it balanced so that one person could not pwn another based on some factor that could be purchased or "abused". But it's not. It's a pretty open environment with regards to choice in how to play the game, build a character or establish communities with their own subset of rules, the forum has plenty of outlets for this very thing.

    People learn to conserve SP, it's inevitable. Some are quicker than others to learn. Let's have some patience with these folks and just go back to enjoying the game.

  20. #1480
    Community Member psi0nix's Avatar
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    It seems for some that feel they have 'mastered' the game that the game itself is no longer enough, there is a new game, and that is trying to make changes that will make it harder for others.

    The reason there are so many vehement responses is not because of the idea itself, it's the attitude behind it, the arrogance to think that one particular persons playstyle is the 'only' way that others should be allowed to play.

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