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  1. #61
    Community Member Gleep_Wurp's Avatar
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    Default why do you feel the need

    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    It is just high time the devs did this. I would suggest a one minute timer before a player can drink another mana pot. I do not have any problem with failing more quests because quite frankly if I have to drink mana pots to beat a quest I do not deserve to beat the quest. Failing quests just makes the victories that much more sweet and encourages higher quality game play. There are no mana pots in D&D.

    This game is too easy. 4 or 5 years ago DDO was so much more difficult. If you the devs are opposed to this on the normal or hard difficulties at least consider it for the elite difficulty. Thanks for striving to improve the game play.
    to try to control others play style? just dont drink the pot.also this is not pnp.if i want to chug pots thats my business not yours.these types of post always get to me. i mean really, who do think you are to tell someone else how to play the game?. its because of players like you that i no longer run in groups unless i pug a raid and then you would want me to chug them pots.

    /not signed

  2. #62

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    Quote Originally Posted by pHo3nix View Post
    A wizard without SP when he needs SP is just a bad wizard. I understand they want everyone to feel uber, but there should be some sort of reward for more skilled people.
    There is. Not paying for pots, .

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sojourner View Post
    People who don't do it -- Think it's a bad thing
    People who do do it -- Think there is nothing wrong with it
    Turbine who makes money off selling things to do it -- Thinks it's a good thing


    Theoretically - I'm against it, but it's a personal preference coming from enjoying games that are a challenge. But, I do see the incentive for Turbine to make something difficult and then charge money for an "easy button".

    As long as there are people with more money on their hands than time or skill -- I'm all for Turbine taking that money off their hands and keeping the game running, as long as it isn't stopping me from playing my style of play.
    From what I'm interpreting the OP wants there to be challenge in the game.

    Unlimited resources takes much of the challenge from the game, at least to the rich power gamer who can afford anything.

    A cooldown wouldn't prevent the 2-3 pots being used through the course of a quest when a marginal group bites off a little more than they can chew.

    A cooldown would prevent people from power-drinking hundreds of pots in getting first completions. This a good or a bad thing, you be the judge. Just keep in mind every raid in the past couple years has been completed within hours of it going live by groups with unlimited blue-bar. is this a good thing for the game?

    A cooldown would remove pressure from healers for "letting" a group wipe by not power-drinking their way to victory. I've done this myself several times, carried groups through content that they by no rights should have completed.

    A cooldown might make casters want more melees in their groups.

    Overall I think it would be better for the game but who knows.
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    Ape_Man does clever trolling nothing more. Don't feed him/her.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    I do not have any problem with failing more quests because quite frankly if I have to drink mana pots to beat a quest I do not deserve to beat the quest. Failing quests just makes the victories that much more sweet and encourages higher quality game play. There are no mana pots in D&D.
    Good groups need few or none in Elite 6-man quests, and even mediocre groups don't need them in Hard. If poor players need to suck down tons of pots to get through content, that's just a cash cow for Turbine (or a plat cow for ME).

    Even good players usually need to use pots, multiple, in fairly large numbers, when learning new, high-difficulty content. If pot-drinking were restricted, how long would it have taken for the first Epic LoB completions? Or the first Epic Elite CitWs? (Are we even at 0-pot EE CitWs yet? Not on a regular basis that I've heard about.)

    Or solo achievements...I think it's cool that a top-notch player, who's willing to consume all those resources, can then solo stuff that normally take 6 or 12 people to do.

  5. #65
    Community Member pHo3nix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonos View Post
    But having unlimited hp as melee is ok? This isn't about ammo, it's about dmg, and melees can also have unlimited "ammo"
    Hardly so. You cannot compare SP and HP: a single SP pot is infinitely more powerful than any SF pots or heal scroll in the game. With 600 SP you can do a lot of things, with 400 more HP when mobs are hitting for 100+ you aren't going that far.
    Cannith: Hazrael--Nyal--Thalax

  6. #66
    Community Member redspecter23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Missing_Minds View Post

    Just like how a melee can swing a weapon all day long and for the most part not worry about it ever breaking or get exhausted?
    Both melee and casters can swing a weapon all day long. Spells are massive damage or special effects that are just completely beyond the range of what a melee can do and those spells are typically limited by a SP bar because of their power. SP pots remove that limitation such that a caster can be uber all the time without having to worry about running out of steam. Melee don't even have that option to begin with, let alone having it forever for plat or TP
    Kaarloe - Degenerate Matter - Argonnessen

  7. #67
    The Hatchery Scraap's Avatar
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    You do realize a raw timer just means more advantage via store pots, right?

    Do we really want to give them yet one more excuse?

  8. #68
    Community Member Gunga's Avatar
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    Nah. I like it as is.

  9. #69
    Community Member Zlingerdark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jandhaer View Post
    id rather them continue working on existing bugs, and the bugs made from fixing those bugs, and the bugs made from..........

    This.

    Who cares if someone wants to chug pots all the way through a quest? Really. Who does, and why should you?

    As many have said, you can refrain WITHOUT any coding by Turbine build in your own timer. No clue why anybody would. I hoard these pots anyways and only use them in extreme emergencies. Even then, I am more opt to use a few of the lesser variety to make more room in my inventory, and save the majors for those life-saving quest-saving times.

    I do not buy DDO store pots.

    But for the love of all that is good, fix the bugs and ignore this thread suggestion. Sheesh!

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by pHo3nix View Post
    Not to burst your bubble, but sp pots are influencing everyone's gameplay.

    Have you ever played a game where ammo were a limiting factor? Well, sp pots are like infinite ammo cheat: if they design content balanced on limited sp then those who got infinite sp will find the game too easy and boring; if they design content balanced on unlimited sp then those who got finite sp will find the game impossible.
    That's a big IF, and is not the case yet

    Until Turbine begins to change it's design approach around dependencies on purchassing consumables, or having to buy an item to complete a quest, what's the problem? So what if someone solo's an un-soloable quest and pays $40 cash in the process...this just boils down to an e-peen wagging contest and someone feeling that their accomplishments are diminished...big deal it's a game for crying out loud, let people play how they want to play.

    What if I am a solo player and never group and choose to chug pots to complete a quest? How does this diminish your fun when we don't even interact and content is not designed around chugging pots to succeed?

    If someone wants to burn their disposable income on things like this let them, but I see it as a non-issue until the game balance completely revolves buying consumables to succeed. If the game ever gets to that point guess what? It won't be around very long.

  11. #71

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    Can we please stop with this kind of stuff? How other people play the game should be of no concern to you. Just play the game the way you want to play it. Ignore the mana pots and raid timer bypasses and carry on. And the fact is though that these types of consumable items are what keep this game profitable and available for us to play. I very much doubt that this game would be profitable if the only revenue they got is from adventure packs and cosmetics.

  12. #72
    Hero Musouka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wakalino View Post
    Can we please stop with this kind of stuff? How other people play the game should be of no concern to you. Just play the game the way you want to play it. Ignore the mana pots and raid timer bypasses and carry on. And the fact is though that these types of consumable items are what keep this game profitable and available for us to play. I very much doubt that this game would be profitable if the only revenue they got is from adventure packs and cosmetics.
    I agree with your sentiment, but these ideas are what are creating exclusiveness when it comes to Pugs.
    Sarkiki - Orexis - Pallikaria - Epithymia - Musouka - Empnefsi | Cannith Server

  13. #73
    Community Member redoubt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by psteen1 View Post
    I like this... but mostly because it will force the dev's to develop content where chugging pots isn't required.
    This! I want them to stop making content designed to push us into more store purchases.

    Keep fun stuff in the stores (armor kits, visual pets, hearts) but don't sell healing and mana and then balance the game for unlimited healing and mana because you can buy it in the store.
    /sigh

  14. #74
    Community Member pHo3nix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scraap View Post
    You do realize a raw timer just means more advantage via store pots, right?

    Do we really want to give them yet one more excuse?
    Well, that's what they would probably do, like they did with raid timers.

    It is bad for the health of the game to run a raid more than once every 3 days, they said. But it's so good for the health of the game to run it infinite times just paying. It makes perfect sense.

    It doesn't mean we should stop proposing nice ideas that they will probably twist to gain even more money.
    Cannith: Hazrael--Nyal--Thalax

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zlingerdark View Post

    But for the love of all that is good, fix the bugs and ignore this thread suggestion. Sheesh!
    +1 and agree, solving non existant problems with solutions that have no merrit is inviting more bugs to be introduced through regression than anything else.

  16. #76

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    Quote Originally Posted by redspecter23 View Post
    Both melee and casters can swing a weapon all day long. Spells are massive damage or special effects that are just completely beyond the range of what a melee can do and those spells are typically limited by a SP bar because of their power. SP pots remove that limitation such that a caster can be uber all the time without having to worry about running out of steam. Melee don't even have that option to begin with, let alone having it forever for plat or TP
    Lay Waste + Adrenaline (this is supposed to work again), Everything is nothing, Quivering Palm, Stunning Fist, Drifting Lotus, Assassinate, consume, executioner's strike (the latter ones have gone through various levels of bugged, I grant), and etc.

  17. #77
    Community Member redspecter23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wakalino View Post
    Can we please stop with this kind of stuff? How other people play the game should be of no concern to you. Just play the game the way you want to play it. Ignore the mana pots and raid timer bypasses and carry on. And the fact is though that these types of consumable items are what keep this game profitable and available for us to play. I very much doubt that this game would be profitable if the only revenue they got is from adventure packs and cosmetics.
    And if there were an item that made someone invincible and have permanent 100x melee damage multiplier and 175% movement and swing speed and a rainbow jet stream coming out of their rear we should ignore that too? Unlimited power DOES effect anyone that person groups with. That is a fact. If I'm a melee running with a caster and he's nuking everything in sight and chugging to keep that up, it does effect my gaming experience. If I'm a caster grouping with the melee in my example above, it's the exact same thing, well except the rainbow jet stream from the rear. Casters shoot that out in front of them.
    Kaarloe - Degenerate Matter - Argonnessen

  18. #78
    Community Member Gunga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gradeyshane View Post
    Nerf nerf nerf nerf, nerf nerf nerf nerf, nerfnerfnerfnerfnerfnerfnerfnerf.

    Every day, someone wantting to change everyone's game. Nerf it. Nerf us, nerf this, nerf that....blah and boo you.

    Why dont you just put yourself on a timer and leave us to drink as we please.
    Yes. +1

    Maybe instead of nerfing everyone else, turbine can work on a timer that floats over your head when you give yourself a self-moderated time out.

  19. #79
    Community Member SiliconScout's Avatar
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    Look this is hopefully the last thing I have to say on the matter.

    Let's assume that pummeling down mana pots is rampant (I have only ever heard of 1 person doing this.. 1 in all my years)

    Those pots either came from the AH (redistribution of Plat from rich to the non-rich)

    or

    Those pots came from the store (most likely) and cost real money to buy.

    In case 1 they are helping to keep the in-game economy alive. In case 2 they are helping to keep the game itself alive and affordable.

    Now I think we can all agree that of the very few who do this most are buying the pots as they just aren't that easy to round up huge stacks if you are downing 10-20+ pots a quest.

    So that means this person is spending lots of cash in the ddo store. A 100 stack of majors is between 13 and 15 bucks depending on your points bundle. In essence each one is about 1.5 subscribers.

    If the guy is VIP and buying 2 stacks a month he counts as 4 VIP's paying into the system.

    If these guys weren't allowed to buy mana pots then you can expect the price of everything else to go up a little to compensate for the lost cash OR you can expect less from the game as they don't have the cash to play.

    DDO is PvE, we might be solo, we might be in groups but we are competing against the computer not each other. So from my perspective who cares if the guy wants to power through those pots. I will laugh at him (privately) and perhaps question his sanity (publicly) but in the end more power to him. Every chug he takes is a couple of TP they won't be adding to the stuff I want to buy from the store.


  20. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ape_Man View Post
    From what I'm interpreting the OP wants there to be challenge in the game.

    Unlimited resources takes much of the challenge from the game, at least to the rich power gamer who can afford anything.

    If the rich gamer wants to buy his way to end-game gear, who cares.

    It maybe sucks that you can't tell who got their gear by putting in the time and effort vs. who got it by buying all sorts of stuff from the easy-store. But that is really only from a "I need others to recognize me" point of view, not from a "Personal satisfaction from beating a challenge".

    If you want the challenge - then just don't run quests with anyone that plays like that.

    If it gets to to be the norm, (and I'm not convinced it is), and it becomes a problem because quests are at the point where they CANT be run without a ton of pots - I'd prefer an XP hit to a cooldown timer.
    * 1st potion of any type you drink is free
    * Every potion after that of the same kind is a 1% reduction of XP
    - Losing 2 or 3 % XP for 3 or 4 pots isn't a huge deal. Losing 20% for drinking a ton of pots is noticeable.

    Then, if Devs design a dungeon that can't be run without a lot of pots, and drinking lots of pots causes an XP hit -- they will immediately hear from players.
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