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  1. #41
    Community Member Therigar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kinerd View Post
    It is chiefly player knowledge that obviates Spot. Gear is good but not the active ingredient for this skill.

    In new/unknown quests, with Improved Evasion you only take half damage even on a failed save, and HP increases have outstripped trap damage increases so you can probably make one save. With that said, you're not going to be at the front of most parties anyway (see slowing the zerg), and that's what barb spotting is for.

    The PrE differences in skills are very, very small. You can make an Assassin and be very confident you're just as able to get essential traps as a Mechanic.
    ^^^^^^
    This!

    Your limitations are primarily dependent on how many skill points you have and where you want to spend them. Some skills have hard caps on them, like Jump. Others are more easily boosted with gear swaps, like Open Locks.

    So, while there is a tendency to laser in on a set of skills and max them out, that really is not necessary. The same is true for Spot as far as I can tell. My own experience is that Spot is incredibly useful in seeing hidden mobs. When it is high enough for that purpose it is often high enough to get the warning signs that a trap is near.

    Keep in mind that Spot is a WIS based skill. You probably are not investing in WIS as a rogue. You may not have the gear slots to add a WIS item. So, although Spot is a class skill, you very well may not ever spot anything (unless it is incredibly easy due to quest design -- like the secret door in Catacombs).

    This means it is very useful to have along your barbarian trap finder whenever possible.

    OTOH, if you have the skill points go ahead and invest in Spot. I ended up with a very nice Spot on my assassin. But, I followed the INT based build and that gives an over abundance of skill points. You might not have that with the build you are planning.

    Quote Originally Posted by willox2112 View Post
    Code:
    if (you know very well where the traps and control boxes in quests are)
        you don't need spot
    
    if (you do not care about hidden mobs in quests and wilderness areas)
        do not get spot
    
    else
       get spot, as much as you can
    ^^^^^
    This is the bottom line and great advice.

  2. #42
    Community Member illusion28's Avatar
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    Thanks for the replies ,

    I'm gonna try a char build and post it to see if I'm screwing up or not .

    Thanks again

  3. #43
    Community Member Talon_Moonshadow's Avatar
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    One of my sadistic joys in DDO is watching would-be-trap-monkeys search all over the place for trap boxes because they did not invest in Spot.

    And although I do not get the same sadistic pleasure from it, it is also worth noting that it seems there are a ton of people who are not playing Rogues just "jumping" at the chance to tell others where the trap boxes are.


    Edit:
    Rogue: Does anyone know where the box is?
    Talon: You're suppose to tell us that. lol
    Last edited by Talon_Moonshadow; 11-14-2012 at 01:49 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jandric View Post
    ..., but I honestly think the solution is to group with less whiny people.

  4. #44
    Community Member shores11's Avatar
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    "I don't need spot for this build" says the rogue that runs into a trap. One of the funniest comments that come from a rogue or artificer in the game is "if you tell me where the tra is I can get it". Don't be one of those trapsmiths. There are two reasons why rogues do not invest skill points into spot.

    1. They are in quests where they know where the traps are.
    2. They rely upon their improved evasion for survival and then disable.

    I can tell you that all of the reasons any player that plays a rogue or artificer and says they do not invest in spot are made on false pretensis. The most common one I have heard is that "I am an assissin and needed to spend my points on something else". Maybe I am a glutant for punishment but I play three rogues (all pure classes) they are my favorite class to play. Yes it is true the mechanic rogue can get their rogue skills higher than all other classes but that doesnt not mean that the acrobat and assassin is not just as effective with disabling traps.

    Spot is a critical skill for finding danger and in my opinion just as critical as search and disable. Now if any skill can be NOT maximized it would be open lock as once you get to a certain level all you have to do is keep retrying until you get a better role. That doesn't mean that open lock should be ignored completely as there are some tough locks out there.
    Last edited by shores11; 11-14-2012 at 09:21 AM.
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  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by FrozenNova View Post
    When spot works, it's useful. It tells you when you're in-range of searching the trap box.
    But, a lot of the time, it doesn't work. Rogues don't have wisdom, and spot is a wisdom based skill. Even with max ranks and core gear, a significant amount of the time, it's going to be doing absolutely nothing. Spot DCs are too high to make it reliable without actively buffing it as much as possible.

    To all those saying "do it just because you have enough points", that's not really true. E.g. the list above me has no balance. Rogues often don't have enough points for every skill they could want. Hence, spot is a trade of a potentially useful skill for a potentially useless one. It's not an obvious choice.
    I beg to differ. My rogue's spot has always worked. I've kept the skill max'd and wear/swap-in the highest spot item I can use at the level. It's always warned me of traps and, other than drow in Forgotten Realms, there isn't a hidden enemy I can't see. Furthermore, he's got so many skill points that I've never had a problem keeping all the following max'd:

    Bluff
    Diplomacy
    Disable Device
    Open Lock
    Search
    Spot
    Use Magic Device
    Tumble
    Hide
    Move Silently
    Jump
    Balance

    I had enough skill points as I leveled and gained more intelligence that I put some points into Haggle and a few into Swim for flavor. The OP sounds like s/he is going for an int-based assassin. If that's the case, they won't struggle for skill points.

  6. #46
    Founder Hambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by illusion28 View Post
    I have a question... actually a bunch of 'em but one or two regarind this issue.

    I'm planning on making a Rogue, but when I started reading about stats, I read that SPOT was not a neccesarry skill if you have the proper gear.... which I'm not sure is correct. I mean, doesn't Spot warns you about traps and hidden doors?. If it's low, you'd have to get UBER equipment to keep it high enough to go along the DC's of every advancing quest... or am i completely wrong?

    Can someone help me with this?

    I thought about making an assassin as I've seen ppl being able to spot traps and disable them even in EE, BUT, most of them already knew where the traps were... so no point in using spot... but what about like never played before quests? Do my party soulstones mark the spot for trap?

    Thanks in advance
    Spot, as you say, pops up clues about traps and secret doors if the skill points are high enough.

    There are other things Spot does as well... You can see "invisible" mobs as shadows further out the better your spot skill is, for one thing. This is helpful if your Rogue is an Assassin. In some quests there are other clues that can be detected only with a high spot skill as well.
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  7. #47
    Community Member shores11's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coyopa View Post
    I beg to differ. My rogue's spot has always worked. I've kept the skill max'd and wear/swap-in the highest spot item I can use at the level. It's always warned me of traps and, other than drow in Forgotten Realms, there isn't a hidden enemy I can't see. Furthermore, he's got so many skill points that I've never had a problem keeping all the following max'd:

    Bluff
    Diplomacy
    Disable Device
    Open Lock
    Search
    Spot
    Use Magic Device
    Tumble
    Hide
    Move Silently
    Jump
    Balance

    I had enough skill points as I leveled and gained more intelligence that I put some points into Haggle and a few into Swim for flavor. The OP sounds like s/he is going for an int-based assassin. If that's the case, they won't struggle for skill points.
    I could not agree with you more. Spot has always worked and it is very valuable as a skill. Those that complain it does not work are those that are not investing enough in the skill.
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  8. #48
    Community Member illusion28's Avatar
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    Default A try

    Based on my right now second life toon (1rst fighter - 2nd Barbarian)... just to have some comments about what I may be doing wrong... BTW I chose LISTEN (i know.. everyone dislikes it) because whenever I've used it with my ranger, I can see (even if i don't see the enemy) a little red blinking spock that helps me detect the enemies around. and then I can see their sillouhettes (spot) to attack them.

    All comments are welcome . Trash, teach, whatever, I wanna learn how to make something useful here :P

    One more thing, I didn't put +3 tomes to everything, because my toon only have a +3 tome on Int, so I've done this trying to keep in mind the equiment I already have stored and the tomes I already used.. not a "wishful thinking" build..

    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.14.02
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Pepo 
    Level 20 Chaotic Good Elf Male
    (20 Rogue) 
    Hit Points: 252
    Spell Points: 0 
    BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
    Fortitude: 12
    Reflex: 24
    Will: 12
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (36 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
    Strength             14                    16
    Dexterity            16                    28
    Constitution         14                    16
    Intelligence         15                    20
    Wisdom               14                    16
    Charisma              8                    10
    
    Tomes Used
    +1 Tome of Strength used at level 3
    +1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 3
    +1 Tome of Constitution used at level 3
    +1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 3
    +1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 3
    +1 Tome of Charisma used at level 3
    +2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7
    +3 Tome of Intelligence used at level 13
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills         Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
    Balance               7                    33
    Bluff                -1                     7
    Concentration         2                     4
    Diplomacy            -1                     1
    Disable Device        6                    31
    Haggle               -1                     1
    Heal                  2                     4
    Hide                  7                    43
    Intimidate           -1                     3
    Jump                  6                    27
    Listen                6                    29
    Move Silently         7                    43
    Open Lock             7                    33
    Perform              n/a                    n/a
    Repair                2                    29
    Search                6                    35
    Spot                  6                    33
    Swim                  2                     5
    Tumble                7                    33
    Use Magic Device     n/a                    n/a
    
    {\b {\ul Notable Equipment }} \par Wise +6 Necklace \par Clever +6 Tiara \par Ogre Power +6 Bracers \par Dexterous +6 Boots \par Health +6 Belt \par Charismatic +6 Cloak \par Icy Raiment \par Minos Legens \par Clever +6 Goggles \par Ring of Disabling +15 \par Ring of the Eagle +15 \par Clever +6 Goggles of Minute Seeing +15 \par Charismatic +6 Cloak of Elvenkind +13 \par Dexterous +6 Boots of Elvenkind +13 \par  \par Level 1 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Barbarian
    Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Fighter
    Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting
    Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost I
    Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost I
    Enhancement: Improved Hide I
    Enhancement: Improved Move Silently I
    
    
    Level 2 (Rogue)
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
    Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I
    
    
    Level 3 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Weapon Finesse
    Enhancement: Elven Dexterity I
    Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking I
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
    
    
    Level 4 (Rogue)
    Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost II
    Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing I
    Enhancement: Improved Hide II
    Enhancement: Improved Move Silently II
    
    
    Level 5 (Rogue)
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training II
    Enhancement: Improved Search I
    Enhancement: Improved Spot I
    
    
    Level 6 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
    Enhancement: Rogue Assassin I
    
    
    Level 7 (Rogue)
    
    
    Level 8 (Rogue)
    Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost II
    Enhancement: Improved Hide III
    Enhancement: Improved Move Silently III
    Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity II
    
    
    Level 9 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Toughness
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy II
    Enhancement: Improved Search II
    Enhancement: Improved Spot II
    
    
    Level 10 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Improved Evasion
    
    
    Level 11 (Rogue)
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy III
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training III
    
    
    Level 12 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
    Enhancement: Rogue Assassin II
    
    
    Level 13 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Crippling Strike
    Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost III
    Enhancement: Elven Dexterity II
    
    
    Level 14 (Rogue)
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
    Enhancement: Improved Hide IV
    Enhancement: Improved Move Silently IV
    Enhancement: Improved Search III
    Enhancement: Improved Spot III
    
    
    Level 15 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Past Life: Student of the Sword
    
    
    Level 16 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Opportunist
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
    Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity III
    
    
    Level 17 (Rogue)
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy IV
    
    
    Level 18 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training IV
    
    
    Level 19 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Skill Mastery
    Enhancement: Rogue Assassin III
    Enhancement: Improved Search IV
    Enhancement: Improved Spot IV
    
    
    Level 20 (Rogue)
    Enhancement: Rogue Deadly Shadow
    Enhancement: Improved Disable Device I
    Enhancement: Improved Disable Device II

  9. #49
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    Quick glance at just your stats- I'd drop INT so it sits at 18 (or even 16) by level 20. With gear, that should be plenty. I'd put the points in CON or STR instead.

  10. #50
    The Hatchery Wipey's Avatar
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    Good elven finesse rogue without umd, sounds about right for a first rogue ever ;-) Wait for a few rogue expert responses before you roll that good sir.
    Shahang Nezhat Bellezza Wipekin Farida of Ghallanda

  11. #51
    Community Member illusion28's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Encair View Post
    Good elven finesse rogue without umd, sounds about right for a first rogue ever ;-) Wait for a few rogue expert responses before you roll that good sir.
    Hard to tell if it's sarcasm or not :P

    It's my first try that why I'm posting it, want to know if it's a complete wreck or it could make some sense

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by illusion28 View Post
    Hard to tell if it's sarcasm or not :P

    It's my first try that why I'm posting it, want to know if it's a complete wreck or it could make some sense
    Do not ignore UMD. That's the point the previous poster was making. UMD is a class skill for rogues, bards, and artificers. When it's a class skill, never ignore it. Many people will invest in it even when it is not a class skill. My currently 25 rogue has a 48 or 49 UMD with gear and buffs. My 23 bard has around a 56 UMD buffed (this is enough to no-fail cast level 9 scrolls). You should be shooting for at least a 37 (10% failure chance on Heal scrolls). Really, 39 UMD shouldn't be tough to get. I cannot tell you how many times my UMD has saved myself or my party on my rogue (especially) and my other two UMD-capable toons.

  13. #53
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    Default Other advice

    Quote Originally Posted by illusion28 View Post
    Based on my right now second life toon (1rst fighter - 2nd Barbarian)... just to have some comments about what I may be doing wrong... BTW I chose LISTEN (i know.. everyone dislikes it) because whenever I've used it with my ranger, I can see (even if i don't see the enemy) a little red blinking spock that helps me detect the enemies around. and then I can see their sillouhettes (spot) to attack them.

    All comments are welcome . Trash, teach, whatever, I wanna learn how to make something useful here :P

    One more thing, I didn't put +3 tomes to everything, because my toon only have a +3 tome on Int, so I've done this trying to keep in mind the equiment I already have stored and the tomes I already used.. not a "wishful thinking" build..

    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.14.02
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Pepo 
    Level 20 Chaotic Good Elf Male
    (20 Rogue) 
    Hit Points: 252
    Spell Points: 0 
    BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
    Fortitude: 12
    Reflex: 24
    Will: 12
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (36 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
    Strength             14                    16
    Dexterity            16                    28
    Constitution         14                    16
    Intelligence         15                    20
    Wisdom               14                    16
    Charisma              8                    10
    
    Tomes Used
    +1 Tome of Strength used at level 3
    +1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 3
    +1 Tome of Constitution used at level 3
    +1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 3
    +1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 3
    +1 Tome of Charisma used at level 3
    +2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7
    +3 Tome of Intelligence used at level 13
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills         Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
    Balance               7                    33
    Bluff                -1                     7
    Concentration         2                     4
    Diplomacy            -1                     1
    Disable Device        6                    31
    Haggle               -1                     1
    Heal                  2                     4
    Hide                  7                    43
    Intimidate           -1                     3
    Jump                  6                    27
    Listen                6                    29
    Move Silently         7                    43
    Open Lock             7                    33
    Perform              n/a                    n/a
    Repair                2                    29
    Search                6                    35
    Spot                  6                    33
    Swim                  2                     5
    Tumble                7                    33
    Use Magic Device     n/a                    n/a
    
    {\b {\ul Notable Equipment }} \par Wise +6 Necklace \par Clever +6 Tiara \par Ogre Power +6 Bracers \par Dexterous +6 Boots \par Health +6 Belt \par Charismatic +6 Cloak \par Icy Raiment \par Minos Legens \par Clever +6 Goggles \par Ring of Disabling +15 \par Ring of the Eagle +15 \par Clever +6 Goggles of Minute Seeing +15 \par Charismatic +6 Cloak of Elvenkind +13 \par Dexterous +6 Boots of Elvenkind +13 \par  \par Level 1 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Barbarian
    Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Fighter
    Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting
    Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost I
    Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost I
    Enhancement: Improved Hide I
    Enhancement: Improved Move Silently I
    
    
    Level 2 (Rogue)
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
    Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I
    
    
    Level 3 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Weapon Finesse
    Enhancement: Elven Dexterity I
    Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking I
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
    
    
    Level 4 (Rogue)
    Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost II
    Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing I
    Enhancement: Improved Hide II
    Enhancement: Improved Move Silently II
    
    
    Level 5 (Rogue)
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training II
    Enhancement: Improved Search I
    Enhancement: Improved Spot I
    
    
    Level 6 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
    Enhancement: Rogue Assassin I
    
    
    Level 7 (Rogue)
    
    
    Level 8 (Rogue)
    Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost II
    Enhancement: Improved Hide III
    Enhancement: Improved Move Silently III
    Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity II
    
    
    Level 9 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Toughness
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy II
    Enhancement: Improved Search II
    Enhancement: Improved Spot II
    
    
    Level 10 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Improved Evasion
    
    
    Level 11 (Rogue)
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy III
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training III
    
    
    Level 12 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
    Enhancement: Rogue Assassin II
    
    
    Level 13 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Crippling Strike
    Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost III
    Enhancement: Elven Dexterity II
    
    
    Level 14 (Rogue)
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
    Enhancement: Improved Hide IV
    Enhancement: Improved Move Silently IV
    Enhancement: Improved Search III
    Enhancement: Improved Spot III
    
    
    Level 15 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Past Life: Student of the Sword
    
    
    Level 16 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Opportunist
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
    Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity III
    
    
    Level 17 (Rogue)
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy IV
    
    
    Level 18 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training IV
    
    
    Level 19 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Skill Mastery
    Enhancement: Rogue Assassin III
    Enhancement: Improved Search IV
    Enhancement: Improved Spot IV
    
    
    Level 20 (Rogue)
    Enhancement: Rogue Deadly Shadow
    Enhancement: Improved Disable Device I
    Enhancement: Improved Disable Device II
    Dump Wisdom. Yes, you need it for spot. However, you do not need to invest in Wisdom at either creation or during level up. Just get your +6 Wisdom gear (my rogue wears concordant opposition goggles: blindness immunity, proof against disease +6, +150 spell points, +5 exceptional bonus to charisma skills, +6 wisdom, +10 haggle, and whatever else they get while making them), keep your spot skill max'd, and make sure you have the highest plus to spot available to you on an item.

    I started my halfling rogue with 16 int, put all level ups into intelligence (except maybe my level 20, which might have gone into dexterity, but I don't think so and cannot recall with certainty). If you are going to be an assassin, put all your level ups into intelligence. Intelligence affects your assassinate DC. My rogue's assassinate dc is 53 or 54 while in Shadowdancer destiny with buffs (he's working on other destinies right now and I can't recall the dc off-hand with certainty). Here is my rogue's YourDDO page: http://ddocrafting.info/index.php?se...kup%21&p=myddo.

    With your build, dump wisdom, take intelligence to 16, use 2 of the remaining points to boost your dexterity or strength, and drop the last point back into wisdom (or charisma, if you want, it won't really matter).

    Listen and Repair are skills you can live without. Especially Repair. It is the most useless skill in the game, bar none. Even Heal is more useful. Listen is something you can keep if you like it, but I haven't found it to be that useful.

    Bluff and Diplomacy are both far more important and useful than Listen and Repair. These two skills will enable you to complete optionals in some quests that you otherwise cannot complete. Diplomacy will let you shed aggro, especially in an emergency. Bluff enables you to give yourself sneak attack opportunities every 6s or however long its cool-down timer is.

    Remember, if you put your level ups into intelligence, you'll get an additional skill point at level 4, level 8, and level 12. So, you'll be able to invest in skills that you want, but couldn't work on from level 1.
    Last edited by Coyopa; 11-14-2012 at 12:13 PM.

  14. #54
    Community Member squishwizzy's Avatar
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    I'm with the ones who say, "if it is your first rogue and you don't know all of the quests by heart, take Spot."

    Even so, many of these quests have random traps. "Knowing" the quest won't avoid these.
    Antipan, Pandargon, Pandolin, Panifin, Panmorgan, Pangrael, and all other things "pan-ed"...

  15. #55
    Community Member chrichton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by darthhento View Post
    . . .
    If you're pugging with someone that has been in the quest at least once he will vividly remember where any deadly trap is. . . .
    Hogwash. Some of us do not try to remember every detail of every quest. Predictability gets boring.

    If you are new to Rogue, or play casually, or PUG a lot, definitely put points in spot.

    It will be very rare that you get more value from hide/sneak than spot.
    Been playing off and on since Beta
    currently: *Weekly* DDO hours played: 6-10
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  16. #56
    Community Member chrichton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emizand View Post
    Will always take, and max, spot (and open lock) on a rogue. If i cant fit it in then i scrap/alter build. Is it needed? It is to the role player in me!
    Open lock!?

    It used to be that, of all of the rogue skills, that was one that did not need to be maxed, as DCs for locks are usually not in the same range as DCs for traps.

    Is this no longer true?
    Been playing off and on since Beta
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  17. #57
    Community Member Zlingerdark's Avatar
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    I tend to have some spot on all my characters, regardless if they are a rogue or not. I just hate not spotting the enemy before they spot me.

    Spot on a rogue, is really a must for me. Don't go dungeon delving without it.

  18. #58
    Community Member chrichton's Avatar
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    OP - regarding feedback of your build, you will likely get a lot of feedback from end-gamers and power-gamers. If this is your target, it will be good advice. But, if you play more casually, their advice might not be so good for you.

    Do max UMD, though (helpful no matter what your goal is).
    Been playing off and on since Beta
    currently: *Weekly* DDO hours played: 6-10
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  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrichton View Post
    Open lock!?

    It used to be that, of all of the rogue skills, that was one that did not need to be maxed, as DCs for locks are usually not in the same range as DCs for traps.

    Is this no longer true?
    I don't know all the DC's on the locks in the game. However, I do know there is a door in House of Broken Chains where the DC is around 90 on hard. Opening the locks on the doors in that quest is optional, but enables the party to avoid a lot of fighting. If you opt to break the doors, guards spawn every time you break one of the doors down. My rogue has max OL, uses epic spare hand (+15 DD and OL), activates skill boost 2 and still has trouble opening this door unless I either:

    1. equip Epic Utility Vest
    OR
    2. get Greater Heroism

    Doing both 1 & 2 makes the door very easy (around 10 or 11 on a d20 to open), otherwise it's around a 15 that I need. Without doing anything, I need to roll a 19 or 20, if I recall correctly.

    I guess my attitude on open lock skill is that I've got so many skill points available there isn't a reason not to keep this skill up. If you don't have a lot of skill points available, then I can see this being a skill you'd dump (as all the locks are optional, anyway).

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by darthhento View Post
    Or you could have a trapper bard that will run trough the trap, evade damage, kill enemies on the other side, find the trapbox and disable it
    FTFY


    Quote Originally Posted by darthhento View Post
    If you're pugging with someone that has been in the quest at least once he will vividly remember where any deadly trap is.


    sorry Darth, but i have the memory of a sieve. it takes me several runs, not just one, to learn where the deadly traps are unless they REALLY make an impression (like the force traps down the stairs in that quest in house J. see, my memory is so bad i don't even know the name of the quest, but i'll recognize it the second i step in.) i've run 8 lives to cap or nearly so as a rogue/rogue splash, or arti/arti splash and many more rogue splashes that never made it past 6-8 level or so, and i STILL don't remember where all the traps in the game are. some, yes. all, no


    moral of the story... if yer running with me, and i'm your trapper, and i'm NOT on one of my PURE trappers (Pickt or Tenandahalf)... don't follow me too close. XD
    Last edited by katz; 11-14-2012 at 03:11 PM.

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