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  1. #1
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    Default Guild Chest Thief - Cannith Version

    It seems we have one too. Of note, there was one on Argo about a month ago: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=395424

    The person used a level 7 character (perhaps a Vet 2) and applied to our guild. Within a few days stripped our guild chest clean. We were able to investigate it and catch the person red handed (or as red handed as is possible in this game) when he did it again. I'm simply using this as a PSA warning to other guilds on this server.

    You can PM me for the name, but I doubt it will be useful, since I presume the person will just create another level 7 character with a new name.

    Hope everyone is well and enjoying the game.
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  2. #2
    Hero Musouka's Avatar
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    This is the guild officer/leader's own fault.

    Don't use the guild chest to store valuables. Use it to pass on stuff that you are already accepting that you will get ZERO for it. Basically, treat it like a recycle bin. As it stands right now, the regular guild chest has no access restrictions.

    If you want a cache to store valuables in, then get the officer's chest, and don't promote everyone to officer.

    Also, be a little more stringent on who you recruit. If you're going to pick up just about anyone with no prior play experience with the guild, then don't have a guild chest if you want to keep good items in it.
    Last edited by Musouka; 11-12-2012 at 04:45 PM.
    Sarkiki - Orexis - Pallikaria - Epithymia - Musouka - Empnefsi | Cannith Server

  3. #3
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    Um, our guild chest is used by whoever wants to use it. The really valuable stuff doesn't go there. Still, it is kinda nice to have recycled stuff not get cleared out and stolen.

    That's beside the point all around. Our guild policies are what they are. There is someone trying to advantage of guild chests, so buyer beware.
    The Silver Legion - Guild Medieval
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  4. #4
    Hero Musouka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aristarchus1000 View Post
    Um, our guild chest is used by whoever wants to use it. The really valuable stuff doesn't go there. Still, it is kinda nice to have recycled stuff not get cleared out and stolen.

    That's beside the point all around. Our guild policies are what they are. There is someone trying to advantage of guild chests, so buyer beware.
    If that's the case, then why are you worried? So he takes it all and sells it. Maybe he needed some plat to buy something. In a sense, you're helping your guildie out.
    Sarkiki - Orexis - Pallikaria - Epithymia - Musouka - Empnefsi | Cannith Server

  5. #5
    Bwest Fwiends Memnir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aristarchus1000 View Post
    Um, our guild chest is used by whoever wants to use it. The really valuable stuff doesn't go there. Still, it is kinda nice to have recycled stuff not get cleared out and stolen.
    If it's useable by whomever wants to use it and valuable things don't even go in... is that really stealing? This person was recruited into the guild, yes? This person was therefore eligible to take items from the guild chest, yes? Did they loot and leave? Seems like not, since it happened at least twice. Does your guild have a policy in place to take only X number of items per day/week/month, and if so - was this person informed of it?


    Personally, the more time that goes by - the less empathy I have for guilds that this happens to. Seems like more often then not it's a self-inflicted problem. Either be more selective in terms of recruitment, or don't complain when the guild chest is used as it's intended to be used, or don't have a guild chest at all.
    53461

  6. #6
    Community Member Cloista's Avatar
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    Those of you posting, especially you, Memnir, should know that we have a great reputation on this server, because of the general quality of our membership. Unfortunately even with our stringent recruitment policies (every applicant is vetted carefully before admittance) it is possible that on the odd occasion someone will get through. This is what happened this time.

    Part of our recruitment system is going over our rules, whuch includes our policy on guild chest useage: Take what you will use on that character, replace it when you are done, unless it is bound. The fact is, we saw the chest looted and those items immediately placed on the Auction House (some were sufficiently unique to be obviously identifiable) . This goes against our policy and therefore we consider it thievery. At the end of the day, we trust our membership to behave in the way our guild expects. This was a breach of that trust.

    Like aris said, this is just a heads up to others that there is someone going about doing this. We're not complaining about the fact we got caught out, we just want others to not suffer also, because unlike us, they may actually keep valuables in the chest (as aris said, we don't, it's more of a twink box).
    Knight of the Silver Legion, part of Guild Medieval

  7. #7
    Community Member Masterspud's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aristarchus1000 View Post
    It seems we have one too. Of note, there was one on Argo about a month ago: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=395424

    The person used a level 7 character (perhaps a Vet 2) and applied to our guild. Within a few days stripped our guild chest clean. We were able to investigate it and catch the person red handed (or as red handed as is possible in this game) when he did it again. I'm simply using this as a PSA warning to other guilds on this server.

    You can PM me for the name, but I doubt it will be useful, since I presume the person will just create another level 7 character with a new name.

    Hope everyone is well and enjoying the game.
    Yep we had him too and that is exactly what he is doing, Vet 2 build and hangs out for a few days and strips the chest. We dont keep valubales in ours, so to speek, but things like scrolls, wands, arrows, bolts, and what not that one picks up on runs just because if you are fast farming its easier to grab them from the chest when buffing then it is to go hunt up a vendor. Yep, same dude I assume.

  8. #8
    Community Member Masterspud's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cloista View Post
    Those of you posting, especially you, Memnir, should know that we have a great reputation on this server, because of the general quality of our membership. Unfortunately even with our stringent recruitment policies (every applicant is vetted carefully before admittance) it is possible that on the odd occasion someone will get through. This is what happened this time.

    Part of our recruitment system is going over our rules, whuch includes our policy on guild chest useage: Take what you will use on that character, replace it when you are done, unless it is bound. The fact is, we saw the chest looted and those items immediately placed on the Auction House (some were sufficiently unique to be obviously identifiable) . This goes against our policy and therefore we consider it thievery. At the end of the day, we trust our membership to behave in the way our guild expects. This was a breach of that trust.

    Like aris said, this is just a heads up to others that there is someone going about doing this. We're not complaining about the fact we got caught out, we just want others to not suffer also, because unlike us, they may actually keep valuables in the chest (as aris said, we don't, it's more of a twink box).
    Well Said!

  9. #9
    Community Member nerdychaz's Avatar
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    Aaaand, this is why you should get to know the people you are inviting or get rid of the guild chest all together.
    Member of The Guild of Calamitous Intent
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  10. #10
    Community Member Anthios888's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nerdychaz View Post
    Aaaand, this is why you should get to know the people you are inviting or get rid of the guild chest all together.
    /signed. Time to forget about the guild chest and find another amenity. No matter how much you want to control it, that chest is open to any and we will all have different ideas of "need" and "greed."

    Why have a thousand rules? Why invite a intra-guild conflict? Why ever police each other about silly loot? Do you need a guild chest to help people out?
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    it might make more sense for the player to re-roll.

  11. #11
    Community Member Cloista's Avatar
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    Why have the rules we do? Because Guild Medieval, of which The Silver Legion is the DDO division, does. Seeing as the guild as a whole has been around since 2001 and has covered more games than I can recall (I only joined once I started playing DDO), I'd say those rules have stood it in good stead.

    Like I said, we're not complaining about the fact it happened (it's a minor thing compared to some of the challenges the guild has faced over the years), we were merely wanting to give other guilds a heads up to the fact there is a chest looter about.
    Knight of the Silver Legion, part of Guild Medieval

  12. #12
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    Our guild in Cannith also had a guild chest thief once.

    We invited him to the guild, then he waited everyone to log off (small guild).

    Then he opened our guild chest. When he saw what is inside, he added valuable items out of pity.

    Then he left our guild.

    That monster...

  13. #13
    Community Member Cloista's Avatar
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    Well countfiz, he probably didn't even get that from us, our guild chest is mostly full of low-mid level gear usually.
    Knight of the Silver Legion, part of Guild Medieval

  14. #14
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    He can't steal what you specifically put out for people to take.

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    Loot uses their guild chest as an area to put halfling-bane items to keep Yambu in a constant state of fear. He can steal all he wants out of the chest but the supply will never be depleted!

  16. #16
    The Hatchery stoerm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arjiwan View Post
    That monster...
    LOL, you are a national treasure.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gkar View Post
    He can't steal what you specifically put out for people to take.
    In the case of the Silver Legion they have a clear borrow and return policy. Even if the chest is a free for all, it's still abusing a system based on mutual trust. Just because the perp isn't breaking an explicit rule doesn't mean he's not doing anything wrong. Often use of commons like the guild chest are regulated by norms, not written rules backed by the threat of sanctions.*

    When you join a guild you most commonly know you are joining a social group that involves accepted norms like that related to the guild chest. You know you'll benefit from being a member, and when you can you'll also contribute. Instead of auctioning an outgrown item, you pass it on for free to a guildie, because you were helped as a lowbie, and you know you're helping to strengthen the sense of "us" in the guild. Proof there is something special about guildies? You'll give stuff to guildies that you wouldn't give for free to Joe Random. Just because there was a chest in between doesn't take away from the fact that it was a guildie to guildie interaction.

    I started the last paragraph with "most commonly" because we know about the favor farming guilds. I'd still bet that because humans are social animals, and because they have a common purpose, even members of favor farming guilds help each other out.

    If you individualistic *cough*merkins*cough* want to see it from a selfish perspective, think of guild chesting an item as an investment that pays off when your guildies help you out later. If you're an economist you could even measure that investment in the potential plat you could have made by auctioning it, see opportunity cost. If a thief then ransacks the chest, he has robbed you the donor of the investment you made in the guild.

    So yes, even if taking something that was offered for free doesn't seem like theft, it's clearly wrong and against commonly held norms. The proof I'm right? Even the perp knows his actions are wrong because he acts like a guilty person. He creates anonymous puppet alts for the purpose and deletes them afterwards. We never see the perp here on the forums listing his higher level alts saying "I ransacked the chests of 5 guilds this week" because he knows he'd be shunned.

    * Incidentally this is the biggest reason why the tragedy of the commons is a load of bollocks. Just because there aren't individual owners or laws governing the use of some resources, doesn't mean they are unmanaged. It's precisely individual restraint and common understanding of mutual benefit that makes it sustainable. One bad apple, however, can spoil it for you.

    P.S. Personally I wouldn't get worked up over a guild thief. I think the chest is a great canary that helps weed out those bad apples among recruits.
    Last edited by stoerm; 11-16-2012 at 05:59 AM.

  17. #17
    Founder & Build Synthesis Battlehawke's Avatar
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    Default chest thief

    If the person was cleaning out the chest and then playing/questing/raiding then I would say that they were entitled to loot the chest (if they were not told of any rules to prevent this). However this is still pretty low on the "honor" scale. We used to have a chest on our ship and I hated it because "good stuff" would sit in it for weeks.

    "Guild Jumping" is pretty sad and hard to track especially since we can't mention names on the forums. This is where a person 1) joins a guild, 2) whipes the chest)3) leaves or is booted from the guild 4) joins a new guild and starts the ugly cycle again. This is a horrible person who should be reported immediately and let the Devs track them. They should have their hands cut off in real life. JMO.

    "Chest logging" is when someone has a toon in random guilds throughout the server and 1) randomly logs them in 2) loots the chest 3) logs out 4) waits a week or so and does it again.

    Primary ways to recognize these people:
    1) random names that require no thought where someone just beats on their keyboard like "jfdtijffkk" or "kkduijfuj".
    2) no contribution of reknown over a a period of time. They only log in that toon to loot.
    3) marked levels with no time vested. I.e., levels 1, 4, 7. These people are just generally lazy and always looking for an easy way out. They don't want to spend anytime building a toon that will have a bad reputation on the server.
    4) role playing names that fit their intentions I.e., "chestlooter" "isteal" or something similar. Perhaps they have a real life obsession and have and urge to truly carry it out.
    5) No Alts. They only have one toon to invite (not always the case, they could truly be new).
    6) No reputation. No one on the server to vouch for them (again could truly be that new).

    Good luck! Be safe!
    Last edited by Battlehawke; 11-16-2012 at 09:15 AM.
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  18. #18
    Community Member Masterspud's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Battlehawke View Post
    If the person was cleaning out the chest and then playing/questing/raiding then I would say that they were entitled to loot the chest (if they were not told of any rules to prevent this). However this is still pretty low on the "honor" scale. We used to have a chest on our ship and I hated it because "good stuff" would sit in it for weeks.

    "Guild Jumping" is pretty sad and hard to track especially since we can't mention names on the forums. This is where a person 1) joins a guild, 2) whipes the chest)3) leaves or is booted from the guild 4) joins a new guild and starts the ugly cycle again. This is a horrible person who should be reported immediately and let the Devs track them. They should have their hands cut off in real life. JMO.

    "Chest logging" is when someone has a toon in random guilds throughout the server and 1) randomly logs them in 2) loots the chest 3) logs out 4) waits a week or so and does it again.

    Primary ways to recognize these people:
    1) random names that require no thought where someone just beats on their keyboard like "jfdtijffkk" or "kkduijfuj".
    2) no contribution of reknown over a a period of time. They only log in that toon to loot.
    3) marked levels with no time vested. I.e., levels 1, 4, 7. These people are just generally lazy and always looking for an easy way out. They don't want to spend anytime building a toon that will have a bad reputation on the server.
    4) role playing names that fit their intentions I.e., "chestlooter" "isteal" or something similar. Perhaps they have a real life obsession and have and urge to truly carry it out.
    5) No Alts. They only have one toon to invite (not always the case, they could truly be new).
    6) No reputation. No one on the server to vouch for them (again could truly be that new).

    Good luck! Be safe!
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  19. #19
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    I completely disagree with your 5th point. I personally was on my third life on my essentially fully geared barbarian before I even began my second character. I know of other players that have done similar paths because they felt it would be the most valuable use of their DDO time to invest in a single character at a time.

  20. #20
    Founder & Build Synthesis Battlehawke's Avatar
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    Default intersetin

    Harry. I think you would be surprised at how many players recognize others by voice or similarities in name or even when a player joins a guild they usually let the new guildies know their alt's names (usually to invite them). This is not always the case and again these are just guidelines to recognize potential chest thieves, not hardcore rules. Common sense has got to be applied.
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