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  1. #21
    Community Member squishwizzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    My wizard/rogue never spent any enhancement points on anything rogue-related -- no human versatility, no skill bonuses, no nothing -- and easily handled all traps at elite for bravery. No sacrifice needs to be made other than the capstone and the 2 spell pen that splashing two rogue costs natively.
    First life, 28-point build?
    Antipan, Pandargon, Pandolin, Panifin, Panmorgan, Pangrael, and all other things "pan-ed"...

  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by squishwizzy View Post
    First life, 28-point build?
    There is no difference in trapping ability between first life 28pt and 7th life 36pt build. They both start with 18 int, put all levelups in int, and spend no AP on rogue-based enhancements.

  3. #23
    Community Member Gunga's Avatar
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    Hit points.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    There is no difference in trapping ability between first life 28pt and 7th life 36pt build. They both start with 18 int, put all levelups in int, and spend no AP on rogue-based enhancements.
    Human versatility is for UMD and haggle. It just also happens to be useful for traps.

  5. #25
    The Hatchery karsion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunga View Post
    Hit points.
    What hit points has to do with traps? Hp certainly does not disable traps.

  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by yawumpus View Post
    Human versatility is for UMD and haggle. It just also happens to be useful for traps.
    Despite maxing UMD, I don't think I've ever used it in two full lives on my wizard. I definitely wouldn't spend AP on umd or haggle, but I suppose the saves boost from human vers is good for any build. I focus my AP on the casting stuff, though. (Except for a couple AP on hit points.)





    Quote Originally Posted by squishwizzy View Post
    First life, 28-point build?
    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    There is no difference in trapping ability between first life 28pt and 7th life 36pt build. They both start with 18 int, put all levelups in int, and spend no AP on rogue-based enhancements.
    In fairness, my spot wasn't very good on my first life since I didn't have a concop item for the +6 wis. Sometime around the desert I had to start casting GH as a matter of course, and by Gianthold it wasn't uncommon that even GH wouldn't cut it so my choices were to either find a way to slot a wisdom item or just not rley on spot until 16 when I could equip my tier 3 ML16 spyglass. I chose to not rely on spot.

  7. #27
    2016 DDO Players Council Jeromio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by karsion View Post
    What hit points has to do with traps? Hp certainly does not disable traps.
    HP can be very handy for disabling a trap.

    It might be that the trap box is on the other side of the trap, or even within the trap area. Lots of HP can help you survive if you would have some bad luck and be hit by the trap. This is especially true for toons with just rogue splashes, but even pure rogues might be unlucky now and then.... and some traps hurt a LOT.
    Proud officer of Spellbinders: http://spellbinders.shivtr.com/
    Lyrandar(EU)->Devourer(EU)->Cannith

  8. #28
    Community Member squishwizzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    There is no difference in trapping ability between first life 28pt and 7th life 36pt build. They both start with 18 int, put all levelups in int, and spend no AP on rogue-based enhancements.
    General trappers are supposed to keep up their Open Lock, and evasion skills as well - these are DEX based. So yes, the number of points makes a differenence.

    A group looks to a trapper rogue on a locked chest, and the rogue says "Sorry, I don't do chests." You know what happens? They get dropped...and squelched.

    I respectfully disagree.
    Antipan, Pandargon, Pandolin, Panifin, Panmorgan, Pangrael, and all other things "pan-ed"...

  9. #29
    Community Member Jay203's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    There is no difference in trapping ability between first life 28pt and 7th life 36pt build. They both start with 18 int, put all levelups in int, and spend no AP on rogue-based enhancements.
    not true
    depends on what past life you possess
    PS: Greensteel RUINED the game! and you all know it!
    less buffing, more nerfing!!!
    to make it easier for those of you that wants to avoid me in game, all my characters are in "Bladesworn Mercenaries"

  10. #30
    Community Member Gunga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by squishwizzy View Post
    General trappers are supposed to keep up their Open Lock, and evasion skills as well - these are DEX based. So yes, the number of points makes a differenence.

    A group looks to a trapper rogue on a locked chest, and the rogue says "Sorry, I don't do chests." You know what happens? They get dropped...and squelched.

    I respectfully disagree.
    If they're in my group, then we've raced by every locked chest to the end while he got all of the traps for more xp and they don't get dropped or squelched. You squelch people over a junk locked chest?

  11. #31
    Community Member squishwizzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunga View Post
    If they're in my group, then we've raced by every locked chest to the end while he got all of the traps for more xp and they don't get dropped or squelched. You squelch people over a junk locked chest?
    I don't.

    However, if its epic, and that chest has shards or seals people sorta, kinda want those.

    And people get mighty testy when they they take on someone who is advertised as a "trapper" who can't open a lock.

    Just sayin'...
    Antipan, Pandargon, Pandolin, Panifin, Panmorgan, Pangrael, and all other things "pan-ed"...

  12. #32
    Community Member FestusHood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by squishwizzy View Post
    General trappers are supposed to keep up their Open Lock, and evasion skills as well - these are DEX based. So yes, the number of points makes a differenence.

    A group looks to a trapper rogue on a locked chest, and the rogue says "Sorry, I don't do chests." You know what happens? They get dropped...and squelched.

    I respectfully disagree.
    My dex bassed rogue is level 20 and thus far has been able to open every locked door/chest without carrying any sort of open lock item. I would assume a wizard trapper would just use knock, or carry an open lock item which should accomplish the same thing.

    An evasion wizard would have insightful reflexes, so the only thing his evasion would tend to lack would be the inherent trap bonuses that rogues get. But then, a wizard is likely to have an intelligence higher than the dex of an average rogue. So it might just even out.

  13. #33
    Community Member Gunga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by squishwizzy View Post
    I don't.

    However, if its epic, and that chest has shards or seals people sorta, kinda want those.

    And people get mighty testy when they they take on someone who is advertised as a "trapper" who can't open a lock.

    Just sayin'...
    For the sake of being clear, if you're looking for a person to unlock epic chests, you might want to say more than just "trapper" in your LFM. Just sayin'.

  14. #34
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Was able to disable most traps in the game on a fighter12 ranger 6 rogue 2 and a fighter 12 rogue 6 barbarian 2. The ones i didnt spot but still disabled were in places like Monastary in reavers refuge.

    things you need.

    highest skill value goggles for your level.
    int item (im sure the wiz/rogue had this)
    +5 tools
    heroism pots (or GH)
    maxed out skills

    So...

    11wiz 2 rogue. 13th level toon.

    16 ranks
    15 disable item (these are ML 13 now)
    4 GH
    7 tools
    10 int mod for 30 int (maxed for wiz casting)
    --------------------------------------
    52 mod for disable before even rolling a d20 or using any skill boosts/other buffs.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by FestusHood View Post
    My dex bassed rogue is level 20 and thus far has been able to open every locked door/chest without carrying any sort of open lock item.
    So you just go with no bonus lock picks also? What skill buffs/enhancements? What ability scores? These are all important things in determining what locks you can hit.

  16. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by squishwizzy View Post
    General trappers are supposed to keep up their Open Lock, and evasion skills as well - these are DEX based. So yes, the number of points makes a differenence.

    A group looks to a trapper rogue on a locked chest, and the rogue says "Sorry, I don't do chests." You know what happens? They get dropped...and squelched.

    I respectfully disagree.
    You seem to really be invested in the idea that first life rogue splashes simply can't cut it.

    Just to let you know, wizards/rogues get their reflex save from INT, not DEX, so no, the number of points doesn't matter.

  17. #37
    Community Member FestusHood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by danzig138 View Post
    So you just go with no bonus lock picks also? What skill buffs/enhancements? What ability scores? These are all important things in determining what locks you can hit.
    I have plus 5 lockpicks, i wouldn't be able to disable traps without them. What i'm referring to is an item of escape, or whatever they are called. I sometimes thought about carrying one, but with the bonus from 34 dex, i just never needed it. That's plus 14 modifier, similar to what a strength rogue might get from an item. I do have full ranks in the skill. Didn't need to roll 20's to open them either. Opened them with rolls like 6. There may be some locks i couldn't pick i just never found them.

  18. #38
    Community Member Bosco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stefferweffer View Post
    Don't you hate it when you've blown through everything with ease, and then you suddenly hit a wall? That's how we felt 2 nights ago at Sorrowdusk.

    We were on the very last chain, at the Temple. My self (11 wiz/2 rog), a 12 druid, and an 11 druid. We over-level, but not so high that we did not receive xp. We were trying to get our 11 to 12, and I had never been to sorrowdusk before either. We were doing everything on Elite, for obvious reasons, and still doing just fine.

    But those last couple temple quests are level 10 and rated "challenging", but we still bumped them to elite. Not sure what level that makes them, but that's when things went bad. As a trapper I have still never "blown" a trap. And since I get 10 skill points every level, I've been keeping Disable, Spot and Search maxed. I also had Spot + 11 goggles, Disable + 10 gloves, and +5 tools. Up until now its been working great.

    Well, we hit those traps, and hit them HARD. First, I didn't spot them (low wis doesn't help), and a couple characters died right away. After being rezzd, I tried to Search for the boxes, and never found even one. This is with Heroism for +2 and another +3 from Human Vers 2. I was really bummed. Absent this, I hoped I could at least get lucky and evade them, with evasion + insightful reflexes + heroism + 3 from Human Vers again. Nope, on Elite even I hit the traps and instantly died, even with Resist Energy

    When I hit 14 last night, I went to the AH, and I now also have a + 13 Search item. I'm hoping that this might help.

    I guess my questions are these. 1) How are people to survive if they can't disarm the traps? (We only squeaked by because we took turns dying and rezzing - they had 2 cleric hirelings with them.) 2) How high does Elite make the DC needed to spot, find and finally disable these traps? I thought I was well prepared, especially with Human Versatility. It was a very humbling experience for a rogue

    Thanks!
    That is one of the older quests back when 10 was max level. To disarm you pretty much needed a maxed out trap rogue to do the traps which meant they weren't of much use beyond disabling traps. Turbine needs to revisit some of these quests and lower the dc in a few of them.

    You can get through them with a high evasion score if you can't find them other then that you need to rez on the other side. Jumping into the center of the altar helps mitigate the damage from the mephits while you are beating it down. Definately want to take those out first or face continued respawns of mephits.

  19. #39
    Community Member squishwizzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FestusHood View Post
    My dex bassed rogue is level 20 and thus far has been able to open every locked door/chest without carrying any sort of open lock item. I would assume a wizard trapper would just use knock, or carry an open lock item which should accomplish the same thing.

    An evasion wizard would have insightful reflexes, so the only thing his evasion would tend to lack would be the inherent trap bonuses that rogues get. But then, a wizard is likely to have an intelligence higher than the dex of an average rogue. So it might just even out.
    On the former, there are some locks that cannot be Knocked. The first chest on Servant of the Overlord comes to mind (a lot of people farm that chest). Open Lock is a DEX-based skill. Maybe a wizzy trapper with a high DEX might be able to pull it off. Much of it depends on your build.

    My rogue is also DEX-based. I may or may not need an Open Lock item...I have one anyways. Overkill is always a strategy for success. :P

    The latter point, you may be right. Not sure.
    Antipan, Pandargon, Pandolin, Panifin, Panmorgan, Pangrael, and all other things "pan-ed"...

  20. #40
    Community Member FestusHood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by squishwizzy View Post
    On the former, there are some locks that cannot be Knocked. The first chest on Servant of the Overlord comes to mind (a lot of people farm that chest). Open Lock is a DEX-based skill. Maybe a wizzy trapper with a high DEX might be able to pull it off. Much of it depends on your build.

    My rogue is also DEX-based. I may or may not need an Open Lock item...I have one anyways. Overkill is always a strategy for success. :P

    The latter point, you may be right. Not sure.
    I have one of these builds, and especially at low levels there just aren't enough skill points to go around. I've seen threads where rogue players are disappointed that there isn't anything rogues can do that splashes can't do as well. Maybe it's just as well there are some things you need an actual rogue for. Or artificer.

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