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  1. #1
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    Default Elite and Traps - Please advise

    Don't you hate it when you've blown through everything with ease, and then you suddenly hit a wall? That's how we felt 2 nights ago at Sorrowdusk.

    We were on the very last chain, at the Temple. My self (11 wiz/2 rog), a 12 druid, and an 11 druid. We over-level, but not so high that we did not receive xp. We were trying to get our 11 to 12, and I had never been to sorrowdusk before either. We were doing everything on Elite, for obvious reasons, and still doing just fine.

    But those last couple temple quests are level 10 and rated "challenging", but we still bumped them to elite. Not sure what level that makes them, but that's when things went bad. As a trapper I have still never "blown" a trap. And since I get 10 skill points every level, I've been keeping Disable, Spot and Search maxed. I also had Spot + 11 goggles, Disable + 10 gloves, and +5 tools. Up until now its been working great.

    Well, we hit those traps, and hit them HARD. First, I didn't spot them (low wis doesn't help), and a couple characters died right away. After being rezzd, I tried to Search for the boxes, and never found even one. This is with Heroism for +2 and another +3 from Human Vers 2. I was really bummed. Absent this, I hoped I could at least get lucky and evade them, with evasion + insightful reflexes + heroism + 3 from Human Vers again. Nope, on Elite even I hit the traps and instantly died, even with Resist Energy

    When I hit 14 last night, I went to the AH, and I now also have a + 13 Search item. I'm hoping that this might help.

    I guess my questions are these. 1) How are people to survive if they can't disarm the traps? (We only squeaked by because we took turns dying and rezzing - they had 2 cleric hirelings with them.) 2) How high does Elite make the DC needed to spot, find and finally disable these traps? I thought I was well prepared, especially with Human Versatility. It was a very humbling experience for a rogue

    Thanks!

  2. #2
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    basically, for elite quests you are going to want to have max ranks in search and disable (spot is only necessary if you don't know where the traps are ahead of time). you will also want to pack the best search and disable items you can for your level, a good + int item or fox cunning potions from the marketplace, heroism pots/greater heroism if available. skill boost is also good to have, but not absolutely necessary if you have the rest.

  3. #3
    Community Member Talon_Moonshadow's Avatar
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    I do hate it.

    and that is exactly how people get through them....die and rez on the other side.


    Actually, some people can survive them.
    And those good enough to survive the traps can sometimes take care of the objective on the other side of the traps, without need of the whole party making it through.

    Many traps can be timed, although some are extremely difficult to bypass this way.

    Traps that do energy based damage, like fire, can be buffed against.
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  4. #4
    Community Member Jay203's Avatar
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    which trap did you mean?
    some of the trap boxes are located before the trap itself, while some requires you to pass the trap in order to reach
    hope that helps
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  5. #5
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    As the others said
    Max ranks in Spot/Search/DD
    +4 from Fox Pots / +4 or better Int Item
    Highest Spot/Search/DD item you can get
    Greater Heroism or Heroism
    Skill Boost for DD
    +5 Tools

    With this you should never have trouble with traps.
    Especially on a Wiz trapper, i have done all traps on my Wraithblade with 15int without the best equip at lvl on elite. I dont even have Skill Boost and never blown a trap.

    You said you didnt have an Search item, that was the reason you couldnt get them.
    The Quests there are 10 on elite they are 12.
    Dunno about the DC, take a look at the ddo wiki maybe the DC are there.

    @evading
    my guess is that you have rolled a 1 on the safe, thats always a fail.
    Also some there like to hit you multiple times when you dont get the timing, like the flametrap.
    the traps there hit hard even with resist, so try to also have protect from element if the trap is Elemental and get stoneskin for blade / spike traps.
    Having a nice bunch of HP helps (false life item, guild slot item, highest +x constitution) to and getting the timing right is priceless.
    max striding item or haste also help to get through them faster
    (haste gives +1 reflex and nightshield gives +3 both stack)
    Jump spell or Potion can also help as there exists a nice bunch of traps that can be over-jumped.
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay203 View Post
    which trap did you mean?
    some of the trap boxes are located before the trap itself, while some requires you to pass the trap in order to reach
    hope that helps
    Pretty much all of them. I tried it from both sides of every trap (after dying), and even above the trap in one case, and never successfully found any boxes (which wiki confirms ARE there soemwhere). I'm just hoping that a + search item like I have now will push me over the edge next time. Maybe I'll try it again tonight just to see if there's a difference.

    How many levels of difficulty does Elite add anyway? My friends thougth it was +1 for Hard, and simply +2 for Elite, but I suspect it is higher than that. I even died on an elite level 7 quest recently, and I consider myself pretty decent and careful at this point!

    Thanks.

  7. #7
    2014 DDO Players Council Flavilandile's Avatar
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    ok spoiler ahead.

    In the last quest you don't have any trap to disarm. Just run straight ahead.

    In the quest before last, after you kill all the mephits at the entrance you will have 3 traps to deal with.

    The first one is a fire trap on the left corridor. The box is on the center pillar at the entrance of the corridor, facing the fire trap.

    The second one is a dart trap on the right corridor. The box is in the center pillar at the exit of the corridor, you will have to cross the trap to be able to see and disarm it.

    The last one is again on the right, it's the blades on the stairs. The box is on the center pillar before the trap.

    The Darts and Blades can eventually be timed with good reflexes and a bit of luck.

    I never managed to time the Fire one, it seems to be a trigger plate... The best you can do is to outrun it's triggering with Haste and other movement enhancements.
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  8. #8
    The Hatchery Wipey's Avatar
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    What are your int, hp and skills levels ?
    lvl 13 Intelligence 34 ( 36 if drow, +1 with 3 tome, +3 with exceptional int Greensteel ), so minimum 7 modifier.
    18 base
    3 wizzy
    3 levels
    6 item
    2 tome
    2 ship

    minimum search 42, disable 49 easily ( not counting more intelligence, max enhancements and +6 int skills greensteel )
    13 ranks
    7 intelligence
    13 item ( of course you can have +15 at this point )
    4 gh
    1 luck from Voice ( or 2 from crafted Good luck )
    3 human versatility 2 ( you can have + 5 )
    1-3 enhancements

    I am pretty sure I missed some things. Raise your reflex too which is super easy on wizzy.
    Heck if nothing works, just solo it and run through with protect, fire shield if you have decent hp, never had a problem at level on either a wizzy or currently fvs just ignoring traps ;-)
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  9. #9
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    So far as I know, your groupmate was right- doing a quest on hard difficulty adds 1 to the quest level and elite adds 2. I've never read that a quest being "challenging" in the description adds any more to that.

    I might be wrong on this but it sure seems like your DC has an effect on the distance within which you can "see" the trap box. I know that my Rogue has been able to spot traps from a pretty good distance away if the DC is substantially lower than her skill and that distance decreases the closer to the DC her skill is. When she was levelling up, I had players tell me that I wasn't close enough to a trap to find it. I moved closer and, sure enough, there it was. It could be that you were trying to find a trap that had a DC well above your skill, though not impossible for you to find. If I'm right, then you might have had to be right next to it- no margin of error- to find it.

    I always liked the Spot skill, but it can be tough to find enough build points to raise WIS along with the other stats you need to raise. In most cases, I relied heavily on good gear and the knowledge of other players (in telling me that there was a trap coming up) to make up for having to either dump WIS entirely or almost entirely.
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  10. #10
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    Hard is roughly 2 levels harder than Normal and Elite is 4 higher than Normal. A level 10 quest on Normal will be like a level 12 one on Hard, and a level 14 one on Elite. There's also less scaling and sometimes more obstacles on higher difficulties, as well.

    You need close to the best gear available to get 100% of traps at level.

    When it comes to that Sorrowdusk trap, and I assume you mean the fire one, fire resist with either Evasion or Fire Shield (Cold) can be enough to make it through. My druid, who has a pretty good reflex save and fire resist/fire shield, but no Evasion, made it through that trap (and can get through most traps in general) on Elite at level. It can take some timing, some buffs, and even a little luck, but it's possible to make it through. Hurts like hell, though. Traps are easily the most dangerous thing in a lot of quests, which is kind of sad, really.

  11. #11

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    For comparison, when my wizard/rogue was 11/2 I had the following trapping skills:

    SPOT

    8 base
    2 tome
    2 ship
    6 concordant opposition
    ---
    18 wisdom (+4 mod)

    16 ranks
    4 wisdom
    13 item
    4 greater heroism
    1 luck
    ---
    38 spot


    INT

    18 base
    3 levelups
    2 enhancements
    6 item
    3 tome
    2 ship buffs
    ---
    34 int (+12 mod)


    SEARCH

    16 ranks
    12 int
    13 item
    4 greater heroism
    1 luck
    ---
    46 search


    DISABLE

    16 ranks
    12 int
    13 item
    4 greater heroism
    1 luck
    7 tools
    ---
    53 disable



    I don't recall having any issues with the traps in Sorrowdusk elite. I actually ran the mephit-ambush one at 12 for bravery, but had all the same stats listed above. (You don't get GH as a spell until 11/2, but you can buy GH scrolls in the portable hole and use them much earlier than that.)

    If you don't have tomes or ship buffs, you can catch up 2 int on me at that point by taking the third wizard int and human adaptability: int, which I waited until 16 and 14 to take, respectively.

  12. #12
    Community Member Jeromio's Avatar
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    It's not a problem really if you max search and disable as others have pointed out. I did it two nights ago on my wizard/rogue 9/2 (int 32).

    Don't forget that you can use higher level scrolls for buffing, e.g. GH (all small numbers adds up), even though you might fail a couple of times. I usually start scrolling teleport and GH at lvl 7.
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  13. #13
    The Hatchery sirgog's Avatar
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    Co6 part 5 is very tough on Elite without trapskills.

    It is manageable solo due to dungeon scaling, but I would consider that trap overtuned. It does more damage than other level 10 elite traps do because it hits an alert, forewarned player more times than other traps at that level do.
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    3 things that would have helped. upgrading to greater heroism (an extra +2 over heroism). using protection as well as resistance, gives a nice buffer for the trap to strip before it starts to hurt you. waiting for any death penalties to go away before trying again.

    the hardest bit about trapping is not knowing where the box's are. at this stage many will be the other side of the trap, and you will meet a few that are inside the trap!

    the item upgrades will help, keep on top of those. also look for a resistance item to boost your saves for when you have to dive through a trap (jump+haste to minimise the time in the trap, dont tumble!). if you can't bag a +4 resistance or better look for the +4 reflex goggles from STK, can't remember the name off the top of my head, but they can be handy for trap diving.

    any boost to HP will also help, so slap on a false life buff for some temp HP.

    you've done well to get this far without blowing a trap, especially on elite as some of those traps can have silly stats. also as mentioned technically elite adds 2 levels to the quest for calculation of loot and exp, but in terms of difficulty playing an elite its way more than 2 levels difference. you'll get there though, so dont loose heart
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  15. #15
    Community Member squishwizzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stefferweffer View Post
    Don't you hate it when you've blown through everything with ease, and then you suddenly hit a wall? That's how we felt 2 nights ago at Sorrowdusk.

    We were on the very last chain, at the Temple. My self (11 wiz/2 rog), a 12 druid, and an 11 druid. We over-level, but not so high that we did not receive xp. We were trying to get our 11 to 12, and I had never been to sorrowdusk before either. We were doing everything on Elite, for obvious reasons, and still doing just fine.

    But those last couple temple quests are level 10 and rated "challenging", but we still bumped them to elite. Not sure what level that makes them, but that's when things went bad. As a trapper I have still never "blown" a trap. And since I get 10 skill points every level, I've been keeping Disable, Spot and Search maxed. I also had Spot + 11 goggles, Disable + 10 gloves, and +5 tools. Up until now its been working great.

    Well, we hit those traps, and hit them HARD. First, I didn't spot them (low wis doesn't help), and a couple characters died right away. After being rezzd, I tried to Search for the boxes, and never found even one. This is with Heroism for +2 and another +3 from Human Vers 2. I was really bummed. Absent this, I hoped I could at least get lucky and evade them, with evasion + insightful reflexes + heroism + 3 from Human Vers again. Nope, on Elite even I hit the traps and instantly died, even with Resist Energy

    When I hit 14 last night, I went to the AH, and I now also have a + 13 Search item. I'm hoping that this might help.

    I guess my questions are these. 1) How are people to survive if they can't disarm the traps? (We only squeaked by because we took turns dying and rezzing - they had 2 cleric hirelings with them.) 2) How high does Elite make the DC needed to spot, find and finally disable these traps? I thought I was well prepared, especially with Human Versatility. It was a very humbling experience for a rogue

    Thanks!
    You know, I just had a long argument with a few others about someone's Pale Trapper being better than a rogue for disabling traps. In this is really the crux of the problem I was trying to highlight. In addition to skills, a pure rogue can pay out AP for disable trap enhancements and so on. In fact, this should be either a main focus for the class, or at the very least a secondary focus. However, with a wizzy / rogue mix, because you have more than two specific focus points, you're somewhat constrain on what you can pump-up with enhancements. You problem is now that you're going to suffer elsewhere on your wizzy skills - things like Deadly Ice, Spell Pen enhancements, and so on - because you have to compensate to bolster your trapper skills. Not to mention that you can put points into Rogue skill boosts which can be really helpful for those instances where you may have borderline skills for a trap. You don't get the next level of skill boosts until lvl 4, and thus you're stuck with the first tier.

    So, you're going to have to compensate by better gear. Upping your disable / search / spot / open lock items (of course) should be your first priority. I think, from what you've mentioned, you're almost at max for what you can have at that level.

    You want a better spot? Eat a WIS tome. Wear a WIS item. Another thing is that because a wizzy should have a decent Spot anyways to range mobs with spells, pouring a few AP into Spot enhancements is a fairly wise investment. It becomes a dual-use skill. Spot and Search are kinda essential as if these are too low, you almost have to be on top of the trap box to find them.

    Not looking at the wiki here, however, I think it is either disable device or open lock that is DEX dependent. A pure rogue is going to have Improved Evasion so that traps can be avoided if your Spot is bad (and thereby reducing damage). So, you're probably going to want to eat a DEX tome AND carry a DEX item.

    As another person here pointed out, GH is a trappers best friend. Heroism is nice, GH is far better. Prep that spell, and keep it in your standard lineup.

    One of the things that I would seek out at mid-levels is the spyglass trinket from Crystal Cove (and even make an epic one for epic levels) as a lvl 16 item gives you a +15 to both spot and search (lvl 12 is +13 to both), and an exceptional intelligence of +1. Then add a swappable +13 disable item (or better) - Gloves of the Forgotten Craft in Gianthold Tor are nice for this and have a minimum level of 13. Then when you start hitting upper levels, shoot for the Tinkers set in the Cannith quests which have an Open Lock / Disable Device of +15 (+10 base and +5 enhanced) plus INT and DEX augments to boot.

    Something else that might be helpful is using Stoneskin when dodging traps. I'm not 100% sure, but I think the DR in that also applies to trap damage (someone confirm this for me plz). It might mean the differenece between being disabled in the middle of the trap (bad), and living on the other side of the trap (good).

    I'm sure there are lots of combinations of upping your trapping skills. I hope some of these are helpful to you in your search.
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  16. #16
    Community Member FestusHood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stefferweffer View Post
    Don't you hate it when you've blown through everything with ease, and then you suddenly hit a wall? That's how we felt 2 nights ago at Sorrowdusk.

    We were on the very last chain, at the Temple. My self (11 wiz/2 rog), a 12 druid, and an 11 druid. We over-level, but not so high that we did not receive xp. We were trying to get our 11 to 12, and I had never been to sorrowdusk before either. We were doing everything on Elite, for obvious reasons, and still doing just fine.

    But those last couple temple quests are level 10 and rated "challenging", but we still bumped them to elite. Not sure what level that makes them, but that's when things went bad. As a trapper I have still never "blown" a trap. And since I get 10 skill points every level, I've been keeping Disable, Spot and Search maxed. I also had Spot + 11 goggles, Disable + 10 gloves, and +5 tools. Up until now its been working great.

    Well, we hit those traps, and hit them HARD. First, I didn't spot them (low wis doesn't help), and a couple characters died right away. After being rezzd, I tried to Search for the boxes, and never found even one. This is with Heroism for +2 and another +3 from Human Vers 2. I was really bummed. Absent this, I hoped I could at least get lucky and evade them, with evasion + insightful reflexes + heroism + 3 from Human Vers again. Nope, on Elite even I hit the traps and instantly died, even with Resist Energy

    When I hit 14 last night, I went to the AH, and I now also have a + 13 Search item. I'm hoping that this might help.

    I guess my questions are these. 1) How are people to survive if they can't disarm the traps? (We only squeaked by because we took turns dying and rezzing - they had 2 cleric hirelings with them.) 2) How high does Elite make the DC needed to spot, find and finally disable these traps? I thought I was well prepared, especially with Human Versatility. It was a very humbling experience for a rogue

    Thanks!
    One thing i notice is that you dont mention what level of search item you had when you first attempted these traps. If you actually had none, that would be the entire problem right there, it's possible you've been getting by without one just from the boost your intelligence gives you. These traps can be done by rogues with much lower intelligence than what you have, but they will have a max bonus item for each trapping skill. A dex rogue can open locks without an item, i can attest this myself. Just sometimes need a couple of rolls. Spot and Search checks don't have a roll, you either have the number or not.

    Once you hit the point where raising your intelligence slows down, (about the level you are) it will become more important to keep upgrading your equipment to compensate.
    Last edited by FestusHood; 11-13-2012 at 12:22 PM.

  17. #17
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    Yes, as stated, I had no + Search item on me. Before this point I had gotten by with 32 Int + 2 from Heroism + 3 from Human Vers 2. Obviously that's not good enough anymore, so I went to the AH and now run with a + 13 search ("minute seeing") item on me. I tried to go back there last night, but I think I have to reset the entire quest chain and start over to try again? I hope not, but this seems to be how it is working out. If so, I'm not going to repeat 4-5 quests just to get to that point again

    Thank you for all for the great advice.

    (By the way, I'm not ignoring Concentration. It is kept maxed at every level also, and I have not seen a need for a + Concentration item yet. I'm sure that one will be helpful later though.)

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by squishwizzy View Post
    However, with a wizzy / rogue mix, because you have more than two specific focus points, you're somewhat constrain on what you can pump-up with enhancements. You problem is now that you're going to suffer elsewhere on your wizzy skills - things like Deadly Ice, Spell Pen enhancements, and so on - because you have to compensate to bolster your trapper skills. Not to mention that you can put points into Rogue skill boosts which can be really helpful for those instances where you may have borderline skills for a trap. You don't get the next level of skill boosts until lvl 4, and thus you're stuck with the first tier.

    So, you're going to have to compensate by better gear. Upping your disable / search / spot / open lock items (of course) should be your first priority. I think, from what you've mentioned, you're almost at max for what you can have at that level.
    My wizard/rogue never spent any enhancement points on anything rogue-related -- no human versatility, no skill bonuses, no nothing -- and easily handled all traps at elite for bravery. No sacrifice needs to be made other than the capstone and the 2 spell pen that splashing two rogue costs natively.

    Quote Originally Posted by stefferweffer View Post
    I tried to go back there last night, but I think I have to reset the entire quest chain and start over to try again? I hope not, but this seems to be how it is working out. If so, I'm not going to repeat 4-5 quests just to get to that point again
    Yeah, if you completed it then you can't redo it without redoing the chain, and it's the 5th quest in the chain.

  19. #19
    Community Member FestusHood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stefferweffer View Post
    Yes, as stated, I had no + Search item on me. Before this point I had gotten by with 32 Int + 2 from Heroism + 3 from Human Vers 2. Obviously that's not good enough anymore, so I went to the AH and now run with a + 13 search ("minute seeing") item on me. I tried to go back there last night, but I think I have to reset the entire quest chain and start over to try again? I hope not, but this seems to be how it is working out. If so, I'm not going to repeat 4-5 quests just to get to that point again

    Thank you for all for the great advice.

    (By the way, I'm not ignoring Concentration. It is kept maxed at every level also, and I have not seen a need for a + Concentration item yet. I'm sure that one will be helpful later though.)
    Yup, picking up that search item will end your problems with this. I assure you. Unless of course, you forget to equip the right item for the job you are doing. Something i think every trapper has done at one time or another.

    If you didn't complete a particular quest in a chain you should be able to pick right up where you left off.

    P.S. as Ellis said if you completed the quest then yes you will have to go back from the beginning. But trust me when i say if you want to do this only to test if the search item will make the difference, it will. Guaranteed, no need to test it.
    Last edited by FestusHood; 11-13-2012 at 01:41 PM.

  20. #20
    Community Member FranOhmsford's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flavilandile View Post
    ok spoiler ahead.

    The first one is a fire trap on the left corridor. The box is on the center pillar at the entrance of the corridor, facing the fire trap.

    The second one is a dart trap on the right corridor. The box is in the center pillar at the exit of the corridor, you will have to cross the trap to be able to see and disarm it.

    The last one is again on the right, it's the blades on the stairs. The box is on the center pillar before the trap.
    I was going to say something like this - Though nowhere near as well.

    Basically for the fire trap you were probably simply searching in the wrong place - Hirelings can find those boxes so a player with Wizard Int and +11 Gear shouldn't have any issues whatsoever.

    Oh and I always go right first so that fire trap would be 3rd on my list!

    P.S. I've always found the insane Mephits to be the biggest problem in this quest - Not the traps.

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