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  1. #21
    Community Member Dysmetria's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slarden View Post
    With the guild bonus each person in my small guild still needs to earn 10x more renown than a large 200 member guild to cover decay. Without it - it would be 30x. I don't have an issue that small guilds need to earn more to level up even with the bonus, I don't want to use elixirs under a system that only has a high decay tax on small guilds.
    The system has the same decay tax on all guilds.

    If you don't want to have to earn 10x the renown that members of large guilds do because you are in a small guild, then recruit 10x more people to help you like all of those large guilds did. You'll get the added bonus of making new friends and having more guildies to play with.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by slarden View Post
    With the guild bonus each person in my small guild still needs to earn 10x more renown than a large 200 member guild to cover decay. Without it - it would be 30x. I don't have an issue that small guilds need to earn more to level up even with the bonus, I don't want to use elixirs under a system that only has a high decay tax on small guilds.

    The issue here isn't the change itself - that is the dev choice. The issue here is I no longer want to use these elixirs because using these pots is only really covering decay when decay is only an issue for smll guilds. It has nothing to do with fairness, the reason I purchased the elixirs no longer exists after the change was made.
    Heres the problem with your premise - you are assuming that in a large guild that you have 100% activity. Nothing could be further from the truth, at least in my experiences.

    My guild started out as a large guild and by turbine standard it still is considered a large guild. Since renown started, we have winnowed the guild from over 350 members down to the mid 120's and are looking to get below the 50 account threshold. On any given day, of those 120 some odd members, maybe 30-40 of them are active. So 30-40 people have to pull the weight of the entire guild.

    Under the old renown decay we stagnated in the mid 60's. Under the new trial system we are starting to gain some ground.

    I do not know how large your guild is - your account is set to private so i could not look it up - but I have a real hard time believing that you have to earn 10x's the amount of renown that someone in a large guild has to. The bonus multiplier on the renown rewards offsets the need to gain so much - unless of course your guild is agressively trying to farm renown and has set very high daily standards per member.

    As for the decay tax - that has not changed. If you hit the daily renown cap then you are far out pacing the decay rate set up for any guild regardless of size. I dont see how your personal issues with renown/decay has to do with large guilds.

    As for the renown elixers, if you are on cannith, and they can be cast on other people, shoot me a pm, i will buy them from you.
    Last edited by Pape_27; 11-07-2012 at 01:00 PM.
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  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pape_27 View Post
    Heres the problem with your premise - you are assuming that in a large guild that you have 100% activity. Nothing could be further from the truth, at least in my experiences.

    My guild started out as a large guild and by turbine standard it still is considered a large guild. Since renown started, we have winnowed the guild from over 350 members down to the mid 120's and are looking to get below the 50 account threshold. On any given day, of those 120 some odd members, maybe 30-40 of them are active. So 30-40 people have to pull the weight of the entire guild.

    Under the old renown decay we stagnated in the mid 60's. Under the new trial system we are starting to gain some ground.

    I do not know how large your guild is - but I have a rea hard time believing that you have to earn 10x's the amount of renown that someone in a large guild has to. The bonus multiplier on the renown rewards offsets the need to gain so much - unless of course your guild is agressively trying to farm renown and has set very high standards per member.
    The same issue exists with small gulids regarding activity, casual players and new players. The math is quite simple each guild needs the same amount of renown to level up. A guild of 6 with a 300% bonus is generating the renown of 24. A guild of 240 is generating the renown of 240 with no bonus. We therefore need to generate 10x more renown to level per account vs a large guild.

    The premise that small guilds are 100% active is also wrong. I never made any assumptions about activity, but there is no real reason to assume small guilds are more active than large guilds. All guilds are made up of individual players that are different.
    Last edited by slarden; 11-07-2012 at 10:14 PM.
    CC Casting Druid: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...C-Summer-Build
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    Several characters on Sarlona all starting with "Rand" in the Guild "Guardians of House Cannith". My main four characters are Randowl (18 rogue 2 artificer mechanic - hope to go back to DC casting some day), Randslar (Bard 14 / Fighter 4 / Rogue 2 Swashbuckler), Randek (Druid CC Caster 17/Fvs 3) and Randomall (Rogue 20 assassin).

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by slarden View Post
    The same issue exists with small gulids regarding activity, casual players and new players. The math is quite simple each guild needs the same amount of renown to level up. A guild of 6 with a 300% bonus is generating the renown of 18. A guild of 180 is generating the renown of 180 with no bonus. We therefore need to generate 10x more renown to level per account vs a large guild.

    The premise that small guilds are 100% active is also wrong. I never made any assumptions about activity, but there is no real reason to assume small guilds are more active than large guilds. All guilds are made up of individual players that are different.
    Your whole premise is based on 100% activity of a large guild versus what ever your guild has to earn regardless of your actively level.

    You can have issue with the renown elixers per se, but please do not blame large guilds for your percieved issue with the system thats currently in place.
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  5. #25
    Community Member Munkenmo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slarden View Post
    With the guild bonus each person in my small guild still needs to earn 10x more renown than a large 200 member guild to cover decay. Without it - it would be 30x. I don't have an issue that small guilds need to earn more to level up even with the bonus, I don't want to use elixirs under a system that only has a high decay tax on small guilds.

    The issue here isn't the change itself -
    The issue is that you're looking at guild levels as a competition.

    It is not.

    Your guild is no worse off than before, but you're throwing your toys out of the cot because other people got a boost that doesn't effect you.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pape_27 View Post
    Your whole premise is based on 100% activity of a large guild versus what ever your guild has to earn regardless of your actively level.

    You can have issue with the renown elixers per se, but please do not blame large guilds for your percieved issue with the system thats currently in place.
    I never assumed any level of activity - activity is an issue for all guilds not just large guilds. I am not blaming large guilds nor do I think they should get more decay. I just think small guilds should not receive a large decay penalty while other guilds do not. I don't think the decay tax serves any purpose
    CC Casting Druid: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...C-Summer-Build
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    Several characters on Sarlona all starting with "Rand" in the Guild "Guardians of House Cannith". My main four characters are Randowl (18 rogue 2 artificer mechanic - hope to go back to DC casting some day), Randslar (Bard 14 / Fighter 4 / Rogue 2 Swashbuckler), Randek (Druid CC Caster 17/Fvs 3) and Randomall (Rogue 20 assassin).

  7. #27
    Community Member Cap_Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slarden View Post
    The same issue exists with small gulids regarding activity, casual players and new players. The math is quite simple each guild needs the same amount of renown to level up. A guild of 6 with a 300% bonus is generating the renown of 18. A guild of 180 is generating the renown of 180 with no bonus. We therefore need to generate 10x more renown to level per account vs a large guild.
    Interesting but not relevant.

    What changed for your guild when compared to your guild before the changes to renown?

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by fTdOmen View Post
    The issue is that you're looking at guild levels as a competition.

    It is not.

    Your guild is no worse off than before, but you're throwing your toys out of the cot because other people got a boost that doesn't effect you.
    I am not really interested in competion, that is very funny conclusion

    I just want a refund on my elixirs because I no longer wish to use those in a system where small guilds get this massive decay tax/ account that other guilds do not get. It has nothing to do with competion - I just don't see a reason to use the product any more.

    It's up to the store whether they want to honor my request to refund my unused guild elixirs.
    CC Casting Druid: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...C-Summer-Build
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    Several characters on Sarlona all starting with "Rand" in the Guild "Guardians of House Cannith". My main four characters are Randowl (18 rogue 2 artificer mechanic - hope to go back to DC casting some day), Randslar (Bard 14 / Fighter 4 / Rogue 2 Swashbuckler), Randek (Druid CC Caster 17/Fvs 3) and Randomall (Rogue 20 assassin).

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cap_Man View Post
    Interesting but not relevant.

    What changed for your guild when compared to your guild before the changes to renown?
    Of course it is relevant it is a direct response to a post that raised that issue.

    What changed is that my guild now has a much higher decay tax/player than large guilds. I wouldn't have purchased the product if I knew about this change. I would not like to see large guilds get a high decay again. I just don't think this should be an issue exclusive to small guilds- just get rid of reduce the decay is all that is really needed to balance it.
    Last edited by slarden; 11-07-2012 at 01:36 PM.
    CC Casting Druid: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...C-Summer-Build
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    Warlock DC Caster: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...ld-Blast-Build

    Several characters on Sarlona all starting with "Rand" in the Guild "Guardians of House Cannith". My main four characters are Randowl (18 rogue 2 artificer mechanic - hope to go back to DC casting some day), Randslar (Bard 14 / Fighter 4 / Rogue 2 Swashbuckler), Randek (Druid CC Caster 17/Fvs 3) and Randomall (Rogue 20 assassin).

  10. #30
    Community Member Cap_Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slarden View Post
    What changed is that my guild now has a much higher decay tax/player than large guilds.
    Sorry, just trying to understand the issue.

    Does your guild now have a higher decay tax/player than it did before the change?

  11. #31
    Community Member 9Crows's Avatar
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    nothing has changed for small guilds. 0. you are just omparing change made to large guilds and acting like they adversly effect yours which they dont... you werent comparing the skewed ratio before the change and crying unfair ...but now you have multiple hyperbolic threads and posts over a change that doesnt affect your guild in the slightest

  12. #32
    Community Member Ugumagre's Avatar
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    Slarden, do you know how much staff would have to recruit Turbine if they would have a refund policy?

    Don´t you think it would be better to use these limited resources in some other more needed areas in this game?

    I think you have a very unrealistic approach.
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  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9Crows View Post
    nothing has changed for small guilds. 0. you are just omparing change made to large guilds and acting like they adversly effect yours which they dont... you werent comparing the skewed ratio before the change and crying unfair ...but now you have multiple hyperbolic threads and posts over a change that doesnt affect your guild in the slightest
    Just the oppsosite, I have always felt decay should be reduced for all guilds and agreed that large casual guilds had the most difficult time with the per player calculations and some adjustment should be made. I have always been in favor of removing decay.

    I have friends in large guilds and feel it is unfair that they can't advance.

    Before the change our small guild always had to generate more renown/account to level up vs a large guild and that makes sense to me.

    The argument that nothing changed is really a red herring. When large guilds get a 90% reduction in decay tax and small guilds get no change, that is a signfiicant change in the landscape. While I don't want large guilds to go back to the old system, I don't want to consume elixirs that are being used heavily to cover decay when only small guilds have this issue.

    I really don't want to debate the issue this post was strictly to find out the process since I never logged a complaint or had a problem with store items. I have that information and am really only responding because I have the time to do so right now.

    Thank you for your reply.
    CC Casting Druid: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...C-Summer-Build
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    Warlock DC Caster: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...ld-Blast-Build

    Several characters on Sarlona all starting with "Rand" in the Guild "Guardians of House Cannith". My main four characters are Randowl (18 rogue 2 artificer mechanic - hope to go back to DC casting some day), Randslar (Bard 14 / Fighter 4 / Rogue 2 Swashbuckler), Randek (Druid CC Caster 17/Fvs 3) and Randomall (Rogue 20 assassin).

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by slarden View Post

    What changed is that my guild now has a much higher decay tax/player than large guilds.
    There was no change to small guilds. You still have the same exact decay that you had before.

    More digital envy. "they got something that I didn't get, and now I have an issue with it even though it didn't affect ME in any way"
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  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by LOOON375 View Post
    There was no change to small guilds. You still have the same exact decay that you had before.

    More digital envy. "they got something that I didn't get, and now I have an issue with it even though it didn't affect ME in any way"

    There is certainly no envy I am very happy for my friends in large gulds. I just don't wish to use guild elixirs in a system that penalizes only small guilds with a massive decay tax. It feels like I am paying to cover a penalty that only exists for small guilds and shouldn't even be there.
    CC Casting Druid: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...C-Summer-Build
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    Warlock DC Caster: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...ld-Blast-Build

    Several characters on Sarlona all starting with "Rand" in the Guild "Guardians of House Cannith". My main four characters are Randowl (18 rogue 2 artificer mechanic - hope to go back to DC casting some day), Randslar (Bard 14 / Fighter 4 / Rogue 2 Swashbuckler), Randek (Druid CC Caster 17/Fvs 3) and Randomall (Rogue 20 assassin).

  16. #36
    Hero LOOON375's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slarden View Post
    I just don't wish to use guild elixirs in a system that penalizes only small guilds with a massive decay tax.
    You still have the same EXACT "penalty" that you had before the change. But only now it's wrong? They will still grant you the same exact benefit as they did before the change.

    Nobody forced you to buy the elixers either.
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  17. #37
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    /chuckles

    Someones been eating parts of this thread

    /waves to the Cube

  18. #38
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    Thank you all for the responses. I have the answer to my question and know how to contact the store.

    I respect and appreciate the opinions you've expressed and understand your positions. There is no need to elaborate more.

    Best Regards
    CC Casting Druid: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...C-Summer-Build
    Shiradi Wiz Plan for 1st Lifers: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...r-First-Lifers
    U25 Patch 1 Dex Halfling Assassin Build: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...x-Assassin-1-0
    Warlock DC Caster: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...ld-Blast-Build

    Several characters on Sarlona all starting with "Rand" in the Guild "Guardians of House Cannith". My main four characters are Randowl (18 rogue 2 artificer mechanic - hope to go back to DC casting some day), Randslar (Bard 14 / Fighter 4 / Rogue 2 Swashbuckler), Randek (Druid CC Caster 17/Fvs 3) and Randomall (Rogue 20 assassin).

  19. #39
    The Hatchery Rapthorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pape_27 View Post
    Yes, because that renown bonus all small guilds get is really unfair.






    Sarcasm, a beautiful thing

    While useful, the renown bonus for small guilds does not offset the renown a large guild can get with sheer numbers. Now under this new "test" system, large guilds have an even greater advantage. The math has already been done, just look up some of Vanshillar's posts.

    And to whoever said that it is not a competition, I disagree. While this may not be a competition for you, it was for me. I enjoyed clawing my way up through the ranks on the leaderboard even though the odds were not in my favor. This "test" just pushes those odds completely out of reach. My competition will be ruined if this current "test" becomes a consistent.

    Once again I will state that I hope Turbine can come up with a fair system for all. Currently it is not.
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  20. #40
    The Hatchery Enoach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slarden View Post
    Thank you all for the responses. I have the answer to my question and know how to contact the store.

    I respect and appreciate the opinions you've expressed and understand your positions. There is no need to elaborate more.

    Best Regards
    Good luck with your request and I do hope you get a satisfactory response.

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