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  1. #1
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    Default How do I get a refund for renown elixirs

    I purchased renown elixirs based on the old guild system. With the changes to the guild system it really doesn't make sense to use these elixirs as small guilds have a massive decay tax where large guilds have none. It makes more sense to just merge with another guild instead where renown is not really required.

    I realize there is a no refund policy with the store, but since the developer changed the rules after I made my purchase I feel a refund is in order. You can pm if you prefer to discuss via pm rather than through the forum.

    I never thought of asking for a refund previously so I am not familiar with who to contact.

    Thank you in advance.
    CC Casting Druid: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...C-Summer-Build
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    Several characters on Sarlona all starting with "Rand" in the Guild "Guardians of House Cannith". My main four characters are Randowl (18 rogue 2 artificer mechanic - hope to go back to DC casting some day), Randslar (Bard 14 / Fighter 4 / Rogue 2 Swashbuckler), Randek (Druid CC Caster 17/Fvs 3) and Randomall (Rogue 20 assassin).

  2. #2
    Community Member Dhalgren's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slarden View Post
    I purchased renown elixirs based on the old guild system. With the changes to the guild system it really doesn't make sense to use these elixirs as small guilds have a massive decay tax where large guilds have none. It makes more sense to just merge with another guild instead where renown is not really required.

    I realize there is a no refund policy with the store, but since the developer changed the rules after I made my purchase I feel a refund is in order. You can pm if you prefer to discuss via pm rather than through the forum.

    I never thought of asking for a refund previously so I am not familiar with who to contact.

    Thank you in advance.
    Did the amount of decay applied to small guilds go up?
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  3. #3
    The Hatchery Rapthorn's Avatar
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    I too feel your pain. I find it awfully interesting that they had a sale on guild renown potions just one week before they announced the changes to the system.

    The old system was already unfair to small guilds trying to compete and this "test" system just makes it even more unfair.

    Personally I will wait until Update 16 to see what realistic changes they make to the system before I start asking for a refund. We are currently still in a "test" after all. I feel it is best to wait and see what happens.

    As far as who to contact for a refund... I would guess that calling their customer service number would be the best approach. That is what I plan on doing if this "test" remains in place after the update.
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rapthorn View Post
    The old system was already unfair to small guilds trying to compete and this "test" system just makes it even more unfair.
    Yes, because that renown bonus all small guilds get is really unfair.






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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pape_27 View Post
    Yes, because that renown bonus all small guilds get is really unfair.






    Sarcasm, a beautiful thing
    With the guild bonus each person in my small guild still needs to earn 7.5x more renown than a large 200 member guild to cover decay. Without it - it would be 30x. I don't have an issue that small guilds need to earn more to level up even with the bonus, I don't want to use elixirs under a system that only has a high decay tax on small guilds.

    The issue here isn't the change itself - that is the dev choice. The issue here is I no longer want to use these elixirs because using these pots is only really covering decay when decay is only an issue for smll guilds. It has nothing to do with fairness, the reason I purchased the elixirs no longer exists after the change was made.
    Last edited by slarden; 11-07-2012 at 10:11 PM.
    CC Casting Druid: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...C-Summer-Build
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    Several characters on Sarlona all starting with "Rand" in the Guild "Guardians of House Cannith". My main four characters are Randowl (18 rogue 2 artificer mechanic - hope to go back to DC casting some day), Randslar (Bard 14 / Fighter 4 / Rogue 2 Swashbuckler), Randek (Druid CC Caster 17/Fvs 3) and Randomall (Rogue 20 assassin).

  6. #6
    Hero Gkar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slarden View Post
    Given the fact they changed the rules for guilds, I think they should do the honorable thing and refund the guild elxirs. I would never ask for any other reason.
    And I wouldn't have stocked up on 20% XP pots if I had know they would add 30% pots. The game changes.

    And the system hasn't changed at all for small guilds, therefore they will work exactly as well as they did before. You really don't have an issue. The fact that you might now want to be in a different sized guild is your choice. They made largers guilds more managable than they used to be, but nothing has changed for your situation and those elixers work as they always did. Heck, they will even work in that new large guild you plan to join.

  7. #7
    Community Member Dysmetria's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slarden View Post
    With the guild bonus each person in my small guild still needs to earn 10x more renown than a large 200 member guild to cover decay. Without it - it would be 30x. I don't have an issue that small guilds need to earn more to level up even with the bonus, I don't want to use elixirs under a system that only has a high decay tax on small guilds.
    The system has the same decay tax on all guilds.

    If you don't want to have to earn 10x the renown that members of large guilds do because you are in a small guild, then recruit 10x more people to help you like all of those large guilds did. You'll get the added bonus of making new friends and having more guildies to play with.

  8. #8
    Community Member 9Crows's Avatar
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    nothing has changed for small guilds. 0. you are just omparing change made to large guilds and acting like they adversly effect yours which they dont... you werent comparing the skewed ratio before the change and crying unfair ...but now you have multiple hyperbolic threads and posts over a change that doesnt affect your guild in the slightest

  9. #9
    Community Member Ugumagre's Avatar
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    Slarden, do you know how much staff would have to recruit Turbine if they would have a refund policy?

    Don´t you think it would be better to use these limited resources in some other more needed areas in this game?

    I think you have a very unrealistic approach.
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    /chuckles

    Someones been eating parts of this thread

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  11. #11
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    Thank you all for the responses. I have the answer to my question and know how to contact the store.

    I respect and appreciate the opinions you've expressed and understand your positions. There is no need to elaborate more.

    Best Regards
    CC Casting Druid: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...C-Summer-Build
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    Warlock DC Caster: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...ld-Blast-Build

    Several characters on Sarlona all starting with "Rand" in the Guild "Guardians of House Cannith". My main four characters are Randowl (18 rogue 2 artificer mechanic - hope to go back to DC casting some day), Randslar (Bard 14 / Fighter 4 / Rogue 2 Swashbuckler), Randek (Druid CC Caster 17/Fvs 3) and Randomall (Rogue 20 assassin).

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by slarden View Post
    With the guild bonus each person in my small guild still needs to earn 10x more renown than a large 200 member guild to cover decay. Without it - it would be 30x. I don't have an issue that small guilds need to earn more to level up even with the bonus, I don't want to use elixirs under a system that only has a high decay tax on small guilds.

    The issue here isn't the change itself - that is the dev choice. The issue here is I no longer want to use these elixirs because using these pots is only really covering decay when decay is only an issue for smll guilds. It has nothing to do with fairness, the reason I purchased the elixirs no longer exists after the change was made.
    Heres the problem with your premise - you are assuming that in a large guild that you have 100% activity. Nothing could be further from the truth, at least in my experiences.

    My guild started out as a large guild and by turbine standard it still is considered a large guild. Since renown started, we have winnowed the guild from over 350 members down to the mid 120's and are looking to get below the 50 account threshold. On any given day, of those 120 some odd members, maybe 30-40 of them are active. So 30-40 people have to pull the weight of the entire guild.

    Under the old renown decay we stagnated in the mid 60's. Under the new trial system we are starting to gain some ground.

    I do not know how large your guild is - your account is set to private so i could not look it up - but I have a real hard time believing that you have to earn 10x's the amount of renown that someone in a large guild has to. The bonus multiplier on the renown rewards offsets the need to gain so much - unless of course your guild is agressively trying to farm renown and has set very high daily standards per member.

    As for the decay tax - that has not changed. If you hit the daily renown cap then you are far out pacing the decay rate set up for any guild regardless of size. I dont see how your personal issues with renown/decay has to do with large guilds.

    As for the renown elixers, if you are on cannith, and they can be cast on other people, shoot me a pm, i will buy them from you.
    Last edited by Pape_27; 11-07-2012 at 01:00 PM.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pape_27 View Post
    Heres the problem with your premise - you are assuming that in a large guild that you have 100% activity. Nothing could be further from the truth, at least in my experiences.

    My guild started out as a large guild and by turbine standard it still is considered a large guild. Since renown started, we have winnowed the guild from over 350 members down to the mid 120's and are looking to get below the 50 account threshold. On any given day, of those 120 some odd members, maybe 30-40 of them are active. So 30-40 people have to pull the weight of the entire guild.

    Under the old renown decay we stagnated in the mid 60's. Under the new trial system we are starting to gain some ground.

    I do not know how large your guild is - but I have a rea hard time believing that you have to earn 10x's the amount of renown that someone in a large guild has to. The bonus multiplier on the renown rewards offsets the need to gain so much - unless of course your guild is agressively trying to farm renown and has set very high standards per member.
    The same issue exists with small gulids regarding activity, casual players and new players. The math is quite simple each guild needs the same amount of renown to level up. A guild of 6 with a 300% bonus is generating the renown of 24. A guild of 240 is generating the renown of 240 with no bonus. We therefore need to generate 10x more renown to level per account vs a large guild.

    The premise that small guilds are 100% active is also wrong. I never made any assumptions about activity, but there is no real reason to assume small guilds are more active than large guilds. All guilds are made up of individual players that are different.
    Last edited by slarden; 11-07-2012 at 10:14 PM.
    CC Casting Druid: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...C-Summer-Build
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    Warlock DC Caster: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...ld-Blast-Build

    Several characters on Sarlona all starting with "Rand" in the Guild "Guardians of House Cannith". My main four characters are Randowl (18 rogue 2 artificer mechanic - hope to go back to DC casting some day), Randslar (Bard 14 / Fighter 4 / Rogue 2 Swashbuckler), Randek (Druid CC Caster 17/Fvs 3) and Randomall (Rogue 20 assassin).

  14. #14
    Community Member Munkenmo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slarden View Post
    With the guild bonus each person in my small guild still needs to earn 10x more renown than a large 200 member guild to cover decay. Without it - it would be 30x. I don't have an issue that small guilds need to earn more to level up even with the bonus, I don't want to use elixirs under a system that only has a high decay tax on small guilds.

    The issue here isn't the change itself -
    The issue is that you're looking at guild levels as a competition.

    It is not.

    Your guild is no worse off than before, but you're throwing your toys out of the cot because other people got a boost that doesn't effect you.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by fTdOmen View Post
    The issue is that you're looking at guild levels as a competition.

    It is not.

    Your guild is no worse off than before, but you're throwing your toys out of the cot because other people got a boost that doesn't effect you.
    I am not really interested in competion, that is very funny conclusion

    I just want a refund on my elixirs because I no longer wish to use those in a system where small guilds get this massive decay tax/ account that other guilds do not get. It has nothing to do with competion - I just don't see a reason to use the product any more.

    It's up to the store whether they want to honor my request to refund my unused guild elixirs.
    CC Casting Druid: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...C-Summer-Build
    Shiradi Wiz Plan for 1st Lifers: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...r-First-Lifers
    U25 Patch 1 Dex Halfling Assassin Build: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...x-Assassin-1-0
    Warlock DC Caster: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...ld-Blast-Build

    Several characters on Sarlona all starting with "Rand" in the Guild "Guardians of House Cannith". My main four characters are Randowl (18 rogue 2 artificer mechanic - hope to go back to DC casting some day), Randslar (Bard 14 / Fighter 4 / Rogue 2 Swashbuckler), Randek (Druid CC Caster 17/Fvs 3) and Randomall (Rogue 20 assassin).

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by slarden View Post
    With the guild bonus each person in my small guild still needs to earn 7.5x more renown than a large 200 member guild to cover decay. Without it - it would be 30x. I don't have an issue that small guilds need to earn more to level up even with the bonus, I don't want to use elixirs under a system that only has a high decay tax on small guilds.

    The issue here isn't the change itself - that is the dev choice. The issue here is I no longer want to use these elixirs because using these pots is only really covering decay when decay is only an issue for smll guilds. It has nothing to do with fairness, the reason I purchased the elixirs no longer exists after the change was made.

    ? What kind of math is that?

    Are you assuming that in large guilds, every person logs in every day? It is far more likely in a small guild that each member will log in more often than in a large guild. This "Small guild tax" is a myth you've created.....

  17. #17
    The Hatchery Rapthorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pape_27 View Post
    Yes, because that renown bonus all small guilds get is really unfair.






    Sarcasm, a beautiful thing

    While useful, the renown bonus for small guilds does not offset the renown a large guild can get with sheer numbers. Now under this new "test" system, large guilds have an even greater advantage. The math has already been done, just look up some of Vanshillar's posts.

    And to whoever said that it is not a competition, I disagree. While this may not be a competition for you, it was for me. I enjoyed clawing my way up through the ranks on the leaderboard even though the odds were not in my favor. This "test" just pushes those odds completely out of reach. My competition will be ruined if this current "test" becomes a consistent.

    Once again I will state that I hope Turbine can come up with a fair system for all. Currently it is not.
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  18. #18
    Hero Gkar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slarden View Post
    I am willing to wait if the store wants me to, but the developer comments make it clear they want the new system and don't believe adjustments for small guilds are appropriate. I am fine with that - it is their game - I just think I should get a refund since the rules changed on me. I am not mad, I am not raging - just want a refund for a product that was purchased based on a system that is no longer in place.
    Read the TOS, you're out of luck.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gkar View Post
    Read the TOS, you're out of luck.
    Given the fact they changed the rules for guilds, I think they should do the honorable thing and refund the guild elxirs. I would never ask for any other reason.
    CC Casting Druid: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...C-Summer-Build
    Shiradi Wiz Plan for 1st Lifers: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...r-First-Lifers
    U25 Patch 1 Dex Halfling Assassin Build: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...x-Assassin-1-0
    Warlock DC Caster: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...ld-Blast-Build

    Several characters on Sarlona all starting with "Rand" in the Guild "Guardians of House Cannith". My main four characters are Randowl (18 rogue 2 artificer mechanic - hope to go back to DC casting some day), Randslar (Bard 14 / Fighter 4 / Rogue 2 Swashbuckler), Randek (Druid CC Caster 17/Fvs 3) and Randomall (Rogue 20 assassin).

  20. #20
    Community Member Munkenmo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slarden View Post
    I am willing to wait if the store wants me to, but the developer comments make it clear they want the new system and don't believe adjustments for small guilds are appropriate. I am fine with that - it is their game - I just think I should get a refund since the rules changed on me. I am not mad, I am not raging - just want a refund for a product that was purchased based on a system that is no longer in place.

    I never called customer service before i'll give that a try - thank you!
    i would like a refund on warforged.

    would you like to get in line?

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