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  1. #1
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    Jun 2010

    Default Best level breaks for Fighter/Ranger/Rogue

    I'm currently tinkering with a build of my own and one for a friend... my build is a 12 Ftr/6 Rgr/2 Rogue dwarf twf melee, while the friend's build is looking like 12 rogue/6 rgr/2ftr assassin. Anyone have any experience with either type of breakdown? Are those good level splits for a DPS/evasion tank and pure sneak damager/assassin respectively?

  2. #2
    Community Member RabidApathy's Avatar
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    May 2012


    The first build is generally referred to as a Monster build, and is quite solid (especially as human or helf for the versatility damage boost). The 2nd build I'd rather go 13/6/1. I think that the extra 1d6 SA and rogue bonus feat beats out the feat and small enhancements from the other fighter level. Either that or go 13 rogue/6 ranger/1 monk for the higher attack speed (which meshes wonderfully with all the SA damage).

  3. #3
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    Jun 2010


    Thanks! I'm sticking dwarf with the former build, because I have two lit 2 Daxes in the bank from a prior 2wf barb life... the second one is just open to whatever works best. I'll look into the monk level, though you give up being centered with most twf rogue weapons (turb epees for DR breaking, envenomed blades, etc) don't you?

  4. #4
    Community Member RabidApathy's Avatar
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    May 2012


    Yes, the monk split relies on handwraps for weapons. Handwraps are significantly faster than TWF with other weapons. Faster attack speed means more hits and off hand hits, which means you apply your sneak attack damage more often.

    I believe that the Midnight's Greeting counts as a monk weapon (though it won't benefit from the unarmed attack speed), however you will have trouble getting a reasonable assassinate DC with only 13 rogue levels anyway.

  5. #5
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Jul 2009


    Rgr 6 gets you several feats, two FEs, and lvl 1 spells (Ram's Might); it's great for MCed melee/archer builds, IMHO. Unfortunately, Tempest I is pretty meh; you have to spend three feats for a pretty modest DPS boost (although admittedly 7% Dodge isn't bad to have). Tempest II is better: two more free feats (great for adding GTWF & IPS w/out meeting DEX pre-reqs), an extra FE, lvl 2 & 3 spells, and a "free" (as in: no add'l feats req'd) boost to TWF DPS.

    Ftr 12 is considered the "sweet spot" for MCed Kensai; that gets you Haste Boost IV, STR +3 enhs, GWS, Power Surge, and all the Toughness enhs you can afford.

    Rogues actually have a lot of potential break points; but in your friend's case I would go rog 13 to get an extra D6 sneak atk and 2 rog bonus feats (Imp Evasion & Opportunist). Although if the plan is to use handwraps, consider rog 19 / monk 1; you don't have to have the extra feats and the higher sneak atk, Assassinate DC, etc. is quite nice. See wowo's monk-splashed rogue.

  6. #6
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    Oct 2009


    Note: this assumes 32 point builds. For a 28 point melee-rogue see this 13/7 ranger/rogue, as those stats tend to get stretched to hit 17 dex for ITWF.

    I can't see the point in less than 12 levels of ranger, unless you really want the bow feats and spells (trapping ability would be tricky: play with Ron's guide to see if you can get the levels where you need them). You get plenty of free feats with low levels of ranger, but you get nearly as many with fighter and often better enhancements as well.

    I'd probably dump ranger on both of them and go with 18/2 fighter/rogue and 13/7 rogue/fighter (12/8 loses 1d6 SA, gains +1 damage and 4hp 1BAB). 12/6/2 would certainly get better trap skills and bow use.

    ranger 2: pretty silly, but gets bow strength, TWF, FE, healing wand use, 1 FE
    ranger 6: a bunch of stuff that is semi useful for TWF. I think manyshot is included and (at least used to) depends on BAB not ranger level, 2 FEs. You still need full dexterity for the rest of the TWF chain
    ranger 12: gets you the full TWF chain (and IPS) without dex requirements. Other ranger goodness (3 FEs, a few spells), evasion
    ranger 13: like 12 with a few more enhancements, sweet spot for ranger

    ranger 15: gets pretty much everything a melee ranger would want. Downside: you are stuck with the AA ED until you grind out of it or have access to others through TRing.

    rogue 1: trapsmithing unlocked. 1d6+3 SA, unlocks full UMD.
    rogue 2: evasion (not needed with ranger>9)
    rogue 6: unlocks rogue ED 3d6+12 SA, lots more skills
    rogue 7: 4d6+15SA
    rogue 12: unlocks assassin
    rogue 13: 7d6+? SA little else.

    fighter 1: free feat, nifty enhancments
    fighter 2: another feat
    fighter 6: unlocks kensei, more enhancements, unlocks fighter ED
    fighter 12: sweet spot for kensei.
    fighter 13: whole lot of nothing. Take rogue or ranger instead.
    Last edited by yawumpus; 11-06-2012 at 11:35 AM. Reason: left out rogue 12, correct mistype on ranger.

  7. #7
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    Jun 2010


    on the 12/6/2 Fighter/Ranger/Rogue build, the main purpose of the 6rgr is to get spell buffs, a measure of self-healing through wand usage (since the deep fighter levels and lowish Int make getting a solid UMD score tough) and free up some of the fighter feats for tactics feats, to be used with the Dwarven Tactics and Fighter Improved Tactics lines.

    I'm hearing a lot of Tempest I not worth it, why is that the case now? I haven't played rangers much in the past so not up on any recent buff/nerfs

  8. #8
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Jul 2009


    In the old days, Tempest I provided a +10% atk speed bonus (while TWFing); but several updates ago when Turbine changed how TWF worked, it got reduced to a +10% offhand proc chance. As such it provides a much smaller boost to DPS than it used to. That said, as a rgr / ftr, you should have the feats to spare to pick up the Tempest pre-reqs anyway, so why not?

  9. #9
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    Dec 2009


    Dunno, the multi-shot part of the 6 ranger is really nice.

  10. #10
    Community Member Fedora's Avatar
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    Feb 2010


    I really like this MC build, since I am pretty much a soloist and this build is pretty self sufficient. I really respect unbongwah's opinions and expertise so I am posting this for some feed back.

    Question - Is a Tempest II / Assassin I a good overall build? I splashed 2 fighter levels for the feats and fighter STR and also so the build would have a few more points of health.

    Question - In general, are the level progressions okay the way I chose them? I decided on Rogue 2 first to get the skills and evasion, then 6 levels of Ranger to get Tempest I. After that I kind of went with my gut.

    Question - Did I make any blaring mistakes or dumb choices in Feats or Enhancements?

    Question - Favored enemies choices, without having to respec later, what are the best choices to make up front?

    Last question - Can sneak attack and multi shot and point blank shot all work together? Can a sneak attack work with a ranged weapon?


    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.14.02
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    Level 20 Lawful Good Human Male
    (2 Fighter \ 6 Rogue \ 12 Ranger) 
    Hit Points: 308
    Spell Points: 265 
    BAB: 18\18\23\28\28
    Fortitude: 15
    Reflex: 18
    Will: 5
                      Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats         Base Stats         Modified Stats
    (32 Point)       (Level 1)          (Level 20)           (Level 20)
    Strength             16                 21                   23
    Dexterity            16                 16                   20
    Constitution         14                 14                   14
    Intelligence         14                 14                   14
    Wisdom                8                  8                    8
    Charisma              8                  8                    8
                      Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills        Base Skills        Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)          (Level 20)          (Level 20)
    Balance               7                 15                   15
    Bluff                 3                  7                    9
    Concentration         2                  2                    2
    Diplomacy            -1                 -1                   -1
    Disable Device        6                 23                   24
    Haggle               -1                 -1                   -1
    Heal                 -1                 -1                   -1
    Hide                  7                 23                   27
    Intimidate           -1                 -1                   -1
    Jump                  5                 23                   23
    Listen                1                  1                    1
    Move Silently         7                 23                   27
    Open Lock             7                 23                   23
    Perform              n/a               n/a                   n/a
    Repair                2                  2                    2
    Search                6                 22                   22
    Spot                  3                 22                   22
    Swim                  3                  6                    6
    Tumble                7                 13                   13
    Use Magic Device      3                 22                   22
    Level 1 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Dodge
    Feat: (Human Bonus) Mobility
    Feat: (Automatic) Attack
    Feat: (Automatic) Heroic Durability
    Feat: (Automatic) Light Armor Proficiency
    Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Rapier
    Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortsword
    Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortbow
    Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency
    Feat: (Automatic) Sneak
    Feat: (Automatic) Sneak Attack
    Feat: (Automatic) Trapfinding
    Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost I
    Enhancement: Human Versatility I
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
    Level 2 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Automatic) Defensive Fighting
    Feat: (Automatic) Evasion
    Feat: (Automatic) Sunder
    Feat: (Automatic) Trip
    Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking I
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
    Enhancement: Improved Hide I
    Enhancement: Improved Move Silently I
    Level 3 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead
    Feat: (Selected) Toughness
    Feat: (Automatic) Bow Strength
    Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency (ALL)
    Feat: (Automatic) Shield Proficiency (General)
    Feat: (Automatic) Wild Empathy
    Enhancement: Ranger Energy Resistance Boost I
    Enhancement: Ranger Skill Boost I
    Enhancement: Ranger Sprint Boost I
    Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage I
    Enhancement: Ranger Favored Defense I
    Level 4 (Ranger)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Feat: (Automatic) Rapid Shot
    Feat: (Automatic) Two Weapon Fighting
    Enhancement: Human Versatility II
    Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity I
    Level 5 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Automatic) Diehard
    Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
    Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
    Level 6 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Selected) Spring Attack
    Feat: (Automatic) Precise Shot
    Spell (1): Camouflage
    Spell (1): Cure Light Wounds
    Spell (1): Jump
    Spell (1): Longstrider
    Spell (1): Merfolk's Blessing
    Spell (1): Ram's Might
    Spell (1): Resist Energy
    Spell (1): Summon Nature's Ally I
    Spell (1): Tumble
    Enhancement: Improved Hide II
    Enhancement: Improved Move Silently II
    Level 7 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider
    Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
    Enhancement: Ranger Energy of the Wild I
    Level 8 (Ranger)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Feat: (Automatic) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
    Feat: (Automatic) Manyshot
    Enhancement: Ranger Tempest I
    Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity II
    Level 9 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Oversized Two Weapon Fighting
    Feat: (Automatic) Trap Sense
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
    Level 10 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Automatic) Trapmaking
    Feat: (Automatic) Uncanny Dodge
    Feat: (Automatic) Uncanny Dodge (Dodge Bonus)
    Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost II
    Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing I
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training II
    Level 11 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
    Feat: (Automatic) Heavy Armor Proficiency
    Feat: (Automatic) Medium Armor Proficiency
    Feat: (Automatic) Tower Shield Proficiency
    Enhancement: Ranger Skill Boost II
    Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
    Level 12 (Rogue)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Feat: (Selected) Toughness
    Level 13 (Rogue)
    Enhancement: Human Versatility III
    Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking II
    Enhancement: Rogue Assassin I
    Level 14 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Automatic) Improved Wild Empathy
    Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Dexterity I
    Level 15 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Selected) Mental Toughness
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Point Blank Shot
    Feat: (Automatic) Archer's Focus
    Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
    Level 16 (Ranger)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Spell (2): Barkskin
    Spell (2): Bear's Endurance
    Spell (2): Cat's Grace
    Spell (2): Hold Animal
    Spell (2): Mass Camouflage
    Spell (2): Owl's Wisdom
    Spell (2): Protection From Energy
    Spell (2): Snare
    Spell (2): Spike Growth
    Spell (2): Summon Nature's Ally II
    Enhancement: Ranger Skill Boost III
    Level 17 (Ranger)
    Enhancement: Human Versatility IV
    Level 18 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Human
    Feat: (Selected) Toughness
    Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity III
    Level 19 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Automatic) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
    Feat: (Automatic) Improved Precise Shot
    Spell (3): Cure Moderate Wounds
    Spell (3): Neutralize Poison
    Spell (3): Remove Disease
    Spell (3): Summon Nature's Ally III
    Spell (3): Wild Instincts
    Enhancement: Ranger Skill Boost IV
    Level 20 (Ranger)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Enhancement: Ranger Sprint Boost II
    Enhancement: Ranger Tempest II
    Enhancement: Improved Disable Device I

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