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  1. #41
    Community Member PNellesen's Avatar
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    Any bets as to whether or not Epic Gianthold will be called an "Expansion Pack"?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ertay View Post
    While they were at it though, the devs decided to go on an incredible nerfhammer rampage and left nothing in their wake standing...

  2. #42
    Scholar Of Adventure & Hero Missing_Minds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smeggy1384 View Post
    Point is Blizzard gave away multiple expansions (that were previously priced 30-50$) to allow people experience them and want to experience the newest. It works for them, maybe Turbine could learn from that.
    Counter point. My previous post. And who does LOTRO? *gasp* Turbine.

    What do you think will happen? Follow that logic, Blizzard. How many expansions have they had? (I honestly don't know.) How many did it take before they started to give up some of the stuff? Why did they give up stuff? Maybe perhaps it wasn't so much being nice, but easing account management costs? I do not know, pure speculation, but it is logical. But going back to the point, How many before it became free, and DDO just had their first. How long will you wait? (Following what Blizzard did after all.)

  3. #43
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    I'd hope not since that is worse than they did with Underdark far as i am concerned. Calling something new an expansion and excluding it from VIPS ok whatever.. But taking old content and reworking it for a higher level version THEN charging for that...

    Hey why not make everyone buy all the epics in existing packs while they are at it, and in future ones. Anything epic should be charged for.

    And how would this work for a Premium player.. you buy Gianthold for X points, then you go buy Gianthold Epic for X more? i like DDO, but if they are going down that route i can find better investments for my money. Like my new nephews future college fund.


    @ missing: Not too sure about LOTRO, bought it when it came out, almost purchased the lifelong thing then lost interest. As far as blizzard and their expansions its at the 4th now. Each time one came out they gave the previous away after 6 months or so, but you HAD to have the expansion for one level range to move your character into the next, so sales wise it made sense. The base game cap was 60.. 1st expansion raised it to 70, 2nd to 80, 3rd to 85. If you owned only the base game of WoW the day the second expansion was released your cap stayed 60 unless you bought the 1st expansion or until they made it free, so there was no reason to invest in the second.

    The same will apply to anything that raises the cap beyond what it is in Underdark. If the second expansion raises it from 25 up to 30, but requires purchasing Underdark there is no reason to buy the newest one, my cap is still at 20. If they throw in the level cap raise from 20-25 with a purchase of an expansion raising the cap to 30 i'd still not have content to get to 25 on, so again no point buying a future expansion.

    How long will i wait on a free Underdark to VIP? Probably a long time, until either my desire to play DDO fades again or they put something i really want to run in a future expansion requiring Underdark. It just doesn't look interesting enough to cause me to invest money into it as it is right now.
    Last edited by smeggy1384; 01-10-2013 at 08:57 PM.

  4. #44
    Community Member psykopeta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Missing_Minds View Post
    Counter point. My previous post. And who does LOTRO? *gasp* Turbine.

    What do you think will happen? Follow that logic, Blizzard. How many expansions have they had? (I honestly don't know.) How many did it take before they started to give up some of the stuff? Why did they give up stuff? Maybe perhaps it wasn't so much being nice, but easing account management costs? I do not know, pure speculation, but it is logical. But going back to the point, How many before it became free, and DDO just had their first. How long will you wait? (Following what Blizzard did after all.)
    blizzard can give you whatever they want, they are far bigger than turbine

    why are they giving packs if they are so big? you should be forced to play!! oh well, you are forced to pay to play so it's the same

    ddo has the OPTION to pay a sub(a sub is the best way to say someone "hey don't matter what you do, i'll keep paying", game woulb work far better w/o subs, players would buy only the well working things, but at same time that wouldn't work with the favor=>TP method)

    gotta add some notes:

    the day turbine start asking me money for everything i quit, easy, not gonna die if i don't play DDO, there are tons of free games, worse? well, adaptation it's called

    the day turbine removes favor=> TP i quit, if i need money to play... oh well, there are TONS of wow "private" servers, yes they are free (or blizzard would rape em XD)

    the day turbine starts following the cries in forum "nerf all but me" i quit, i mean... i play in a game owned by
    adults, not kids, could become mad if i have to suffer babies complaining because the game their parents pay isn't as they want

    on the other hand: was a good idea making VIP's purchase MotU? no, of course not, in fact can't believe why ppl holded their sub and payed for that, thin that's called conformity (don't blame me if that's the wrong word, blame google lol)

    so actual point: do actual vips have the right to claim MotU to be free? yes, but that's what should have done VIPs when they released MotU, like i said is a non sense, no matter how you try to explain it, making ppl who pays a sub to buy an expansion or call it as you prefer

    actual point 2: do the VIPs that paid for the MotU deserve turbine gives em back (skipping X sub months or adding X TP if they left the sub) the money they spent? if turbine wants to get some appreciation they should, but they aren't forced to: if you go to a restaurant to eat steak, and you don't like it, but you eat it and they pay it, it's YOUR FAULT accepting that ****, can't blame to another guy who doesn't want the steak and gets a "insert your favourite food" for the same price, he claimed his rights, you just ate **** cause you are acting like a sheep following the flock

    post translation: vips shouldn't pay for MotU, no matter how many vips paid for it, is a violation to the common sense, if turbine decides to pay back vips who paid for MotU, it's a kind decision they can take, nobody forces em, same way nobody forced you to pay for it (of course premium and f2p are out of that because they don't have a sub lol)

    if a player can get all the packs,races and classes for 30$, shouldn't pay 200$ for em, this way turbine gets a consciousness-raising of the real situation, if not turbine can think all their players are retarded, at least act like that

    and remember, that's a forum, if you want to claim something to turbine, it's the wrong place, there are only mods here, sometimes u see some user labelled as dev, nothing real, would be funny being dev with all the troubles they have with code and have time to spare in the forum, of course son, of course

    EDIT: VIPs don't exist in ddo, they are only subs where turbine can charge the same money than other players, IMHO turbine is laughing on supporters (that's the funniest part, tons of them pay a sub to support the same company is squeezing their money rofl, everything cause we played D&D long time ago, i did, bought 2 books, there was no reason to buy more cause the price/content relation was a ****ing joke)
    Last edited by psykopeta; 01-10-2013 at 09:52 PM.
    psykopeta - hoarding pl, for the sake of hoarding, the day i become ubercompletionist will be because there isn't anything to delay it more - thelanis, where the gimps claim to be pros and noobs claim to be pros, no newbies allowed(unless they claim to be pros), we have enough drama w/o them. PS i'm not a pro, maybe if i reincarnate in RL...

  5. #45
    Community Member goodspeed's Avatar
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    vips are really premiums that hold grandeur illusions of being amazing and on this magical list. When in fact the only list they're on is the monthly collection.

    The term vip hasn't existed since f2p was created. Further still are the people that payed a handsom sum at the beginning to get ddo free forever. They're pretty much in the same boat as you, however; unlike vips they get their title and retain it without having to cough up blood money every month.

    Their are no tiers in ddo. Their are only cash dollars. How big of a cash dollar you appear to be is entirely your very own decision.
    Through avarice, evil smiles; through insanity, it sings.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by smeggy1384 View Post
    As was pointed out many times since i first asked the update was really an expansion and excluded for VIPS.All i really needed out of the thread, surprised folks still post here. But since it was mentioned, letting the expansion be free to paying subscribers (VIPS in other words) down the road would be a good thing. If i don't buy this one as a VIP and a year from now they release an expansion which raises the cap from 25 to 30 why would i buy that one? Would i be alone in not purchasing it? I highly doubt it.. those who have no use for the content won't toss in the cash. If they throw in the whole underdark bit i'd likely buy the next expansion to experience it.

    It's not without precedent for a gaming company. Blizzard eventually started giving expansions to their paying customers as they released newer ones. When the cap went from 60 to 70 you had to buy that expansion, and when it went from 70 to 80 you had to buy that. But somewhere down the road they decided to throw in the 60-70 expansion, then they eventually did the same with the 70-80 one when they released another and the cap became 85. I've not checked to see if they also tossed in the 80-85 one, and i really don't care.

    And they are not the only company to do that. Dark Ages of Camelot later did it as well, though it was several years older. I'm sure others can think of companies that have given out expansions to draw more players in or try to keep the existing players interest.

    Point is Blizzard gave away multiple expansions (that were previously priced 30-50$) to allow people experience them and want to experience the newest. It works for them, maybe Turbine could learn from that.
    Different business model. For Blizzard, it makes sense to do things that way as the only way to be able to have a use for the new end game is to have access to the last expansion.

    With DDO, one could fairly easily hit the new cap without owning the expansion (I did it with just sands, VoN and the harbor epics) and with the micro transaction system, even have the destinies without it.

    Also, with the premium pay method, it would probably be a bad idea to try to do things the WoW way. It would just limit who could buy complementary content to those who also buy the expansion.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by psykopeta View Post
    blizzard can give you whatever they want, they are far bigger than turbine

    why are they giving packs if they are so big? you should be forced to play!! oh well, you are forced to pay to play so it's the same

    ddo has the OPTION to pay a sub(a sub is the best way to say someone "hey don't matter what you do, i'll keep paying", game woulb work far better w/o subs, players would buy only the well working things, but at same time that wouldn't work with the favor=>TP method)

    gotta add some notes:

    the day turbine start asking me money for everything i quit, easy, not gonna die if i don't play DDO, there are tons of free games, worse? well, adaptation it's called

    the day turbine removes favor=> TP i quit, if i need money to play... oh well, there are TONS of wow "private" servers, yes they are free (or blizzard would rape em XD)

    the day turbine starts following the cries in forum "nerf all but me" i quit, i mean... i play in a game owned by
    adults, not kids, could become mad if i have to suffer babies complaining because the game their parents pay isn't as they want

    on the other hand: was a good idea making VIP's purchase MotU? no, of course not, in fact can't believe why ppl holded their sub and payed for that, thin that's called conformity (don't blame me if that's the wrong word, blame google lol)

    so actual point: do actual vips have the right to claim MotU to be free? yes, but that's what should have done VIPs when they released MotU, like i said is a non sense, no matter how you try to explain it, making ppl who pays a sub to buy an expansion or call it as you prefer

    actual point 2: do the VIPs that paid for the MotU deserve turbine gives em back (skipping X sub months or adding X TP if they left the sub) the money they spent? if turbine wants to get some appreciation they should, but they aren't forced to: if you go to a restaurant to eat steak, and you don't like it, but you eat it and they pay it, it's YOUR FAULT accepting that ****, can't blame to another guy who doesn't want the steak and gets a "insert your favourite food" for the same price, he claimed his rights, you just ate **** cause you are acting like a sheep following the flock

    post translation: vips shouldn't pay for MotU, no matter how many vips paid for it, is a violation to the common sense, if turbine decides to pay back vips who paid for MotU, it's a kind decision they can take, nobody forces em, same way nobody forced you to pay for it (of course premium and f2p are out of that because they don't have a sub lol)

    if a player can get all the packs,races and classes for 30$, shouldn't pay 200$ for em, this way turbine gets a consciousness-raising of the real situation, if not turbine can think all their players are retarded, at least act like that

    and remember, that's a forum, if you want to claim something to turbine, it's the wrong place, there are only mods here, sometimes u see some user labelled as dev, nothing real, would be funny being dev with all the troubles they have with code and have time to spare in the forum, of course son, of course

    EDIT: VIPs don't exist in ddo, they are only subs where turbine can charge the same money than other players, IMHO turbine is laughing on supporters (that's the funniest part, tons of them pay a sub to support the same company is squeezing their money rofl, everything cause we played D&D long time ago, i did, bought 2 books, there was no reason to buy more cause the price/content relation was a ****ing joke)
    Well, if Turbine did things your way, there simply wouldn't have been an expansion. U14 would have been 3 new quests in Delara's or some such because it's really stupid to spend what they did on the expansion if they are going to give it away for what they were getting without spending that kind of money. Epic Destinies? No, we would have gotten a few epic feats and maybe expanded enhancements. A new world? Not worth paying the license fee for.

    An expansion that was part of the subscription package was never an option. It was either everyone pays or no expansion. That's just the economic reality. It's also the choice we all have as anyone who chooses not to buy the expansion can still play the game as if the expansion was never developed.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gremmlynn View Post
    With DDO, one could fairly easily hit the new cap without owning the expansion (I did it with just sands, VoN and the harbor epics) and with the micro transaction system, even have the destinies without it.
    .
    So the cap was raised for free from 20 to 25? Didn't know that part, assumed no Underdark meant no leveling beyond 20, and i hadn't tried. Get to 20 and turn around to do it over again, maybe if i ever get my arcane archer beyond 16 i'll give the epic destinies a try.

  9. #49
    Community Member squishwizzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arkonas View Post
    except last time i checked any company can modify their agreements. hence that reason its subject to change. this is why you cant take exact wording from anything. they can change venues, prices, items, blah blah at will.
    Yeah.

    I tell my son on Monday, "Hey, let's buy you a bike."

    On Friday my son asks, "When are we going to get my bike you promised?"

    I tell him, "Sorry, not going to do that now. I just modified my agreement."

    It's my money, not his. I can do whatever I want with my money. He's a kid, relies on me for support, and has no right or standing to demand that I buy him a bike. I buy the clothes on his back, the food in his belly, and so on.

    However, I'm still an a** for going back on what I promised. It makes me a bad father. It sets a bad example. it teaches my kid the wrong things.

    And if I didn't have the money to buy the kid a bike, I should have never made the promise in the first place.

    Again, stop excusing and enabling bad behavior.
    Last edited by squishwizzy; 01-11-2013 at 12:38 PM.
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  10. #50
    Founder & Hero Steiner-Davion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dterror View Post
    The expansion took a lot away from the game as well.
    ED's make TRing a much less viable option except for those of us who prefer to earlier level content to anything in the 20+ range. A 1st life with ED's can be just as strong as any multiple TR while spending 1/100th or less of the time required to get there.
    TR'ing was never meant to be a game requirement. It was designed as is, and is in fact a very blatant Time Sink
    . No one at Turbine has ever tried to deny this fact.
    Last edited by Steiner-Davion; 01-11-2013 at 12:47 PM.

  11. #51
    Founder & Hero Steiner-Davion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by squishwizzy View Post
    Gee, anyone ever wonder why they "need the money to survive" in the first place?
    No need to wonder, because they have these things/people called Employees, and rent and utilities that they have to Pay or nothing gets done, or else.

  12. #52
    Founder & Hero Steiner-Davion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by squishwizzy View Post
    Most people accept price increases. Inflation over time is a fact of life for the most.
    Paying for the Expansion is less of an increase than the increase caused by inflation.

    Quote Originally Posted by squishwizzy View Post
    Given the low expectations people have of how some stuff is done in the private sector, does anyone wonder why the US citizenry had to bail out AIG, banks, and a good portion of the automotive sector? ... And no one it seems, outside of people like me, seems to get upset about it.
    Please don't lump me or anyone else into your assumtions. Blame Congress. but enough of this before it gets political and shuts the thread down.

    Quote Originally Posted by squishwizzy View Post
    So please, no more enabling of this kinda ****. It doesn't wash with me.
    Speak with your wallet, I'll speak with mine, and I happen to disagree with you and your argument.

  13. #53
    Founder & Hero Steiner-Davion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by missing_minds View Post
    counter point. My previous post. And who does lotro? *gasp* turbine.

    What do you think will happen? Follow that logic, blizzard. How many expansions have they had? (i honestly don't know.) how many did it take before they started to give up some of the stuff? Why did they give up stuff? Maybe perhaps it wasn't so much being nice, but easing account management costs? I do not know, pure speculation, but it is logical. But going back to the point, how many before it became free, and ddo just had their first. How long will you wait? (following what blizzard did after all.)
    quoted for thruth!

  14. #54
    Scholar Of Adventure & Hero Missing_Minds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by psykopeta View Post
    the day turbine start asking me money for everything i quit, easy, not gonna die if i don't play DDO, there are tons of free games, worse? well, adaptation it's called
    I call it getting what you pay/don't pay for. Perception is the law players follow after all.
    Also, Turbine does do that, only it is over in LOTRO where they do it. I find it rather annoying the constant nagging to go spend points in the store.

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steiner-Davion View Post
    No need to wonder, because they have these things/people called Employees, and rent and utilities that they have to Pay or nothing gets done, or else.
    Employees? I'd have thought they were named Hirelings and are what the ingame ones are modeled after. I need some time to digest this.

  16. #56
    Community Member Zorth's Avatar
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    Yea it is evil that they let us pick up the quests, yet not let us run them.

    We get happy and even read the story, Light a smoke or even pop open a fresh beer while we read it.

    Then to find out we can't do it!

    It is a huge let down!

    It is like winning a cash prize or lottery, but to find out it was fake.

    We Get Mad!

    The game plays with our emotions and when we trust that we have found new content, yet we get a slap in the face!

    It makes us angry and we have good reason.

    Dont let us get content we can't run.

    What kind of marketing is this anyway?

    /Signed! With a huge middle finger
    The Blood of the Red Dragon

  17. #57
    Community Member Hokiewa's Avatar
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    Ah this again...it's amazing what upsets people yet they don't think twice when they plunk down 5 bucks for a cup of coffee....

    A sad state of affairs.....and yes to the DBs out there, I still pay a monthly sub after all this time...the forum entertainment alone is worth it, let alone the game. 10 bucks a month compared to the other entertainment out there? Call it 12 with the expansion.

    So absurd.
    Hilarious Princess....Sorry your life is so medicore after all this time..Lol, you are scared of a farmer? with a tractor....?

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Missing_Minds View Post
    I would expect that another expansion may contain much of the MOTU expansion as part of its pre purchase plan.

    I base this off how LOTRO works with their expansions.
    Indeed.

    Some Motu price packages included older p2p content.

  19. #59
    Community Member psykopeta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by squishwizzy View Post
    Yeah.

    I tell my son on Monday, "Hey, let's buy you a bike."

    On Friday my son asks, "When are we going to get my bike you promised?"

    I tell him, "Sorry, not going to do that now. I just modified my agreement."

    It's my money, not his. I can do whatever I want with my money. He's a kid, relies on me for support, and has no right or standing to demand that I buy him a bike. I buy the clothes on his back, the food in his belly, and so on.

    However, I'm still an a** for going back on what I promised. It makes me a bad father. It sets a bad example. it teaches my kid the wrong things.

    And if I didn't have the money to buy the kid a bike, I should have never made the promise in the first place.

    Again, stop excusing and enabling bad behavior.
    tyvm for simplifying my post XDD if everybody do/think something doesn't mean it's right, geocentrism is an example

    and the best part was the guy who says "u14 would be few more delera quests"

    of course, if this had been this way, all would be still playing/paying here, of course, turbine is really lucky, but they don't know it, their behaviour is like other companies so that's fine

    trololol
    psykopeta - hoarding pl, for the sake of hoarding, the day i become ubercompletionist will be because there isn't anything to delay it more - thelanis, where the gimps claim to be pros and noobs claim to be pros, no newbies allowed(unless they claim to be pros), we have enough drama w/o them. PS i'm not a pro, maybe if i reincarnate in RL...

  20. #60
    Community Member arkonas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by squishwizzy View Post
    Yeah.

    I tell my son on Monday, "Hey, let's buy you a bike."

    On Friday my son asks, "When are we going to get my bike you promised?"

    I tell him, "Sorry, not going to do that now. I just modified my agreement."

    It's my money, not his. I can do whatever I want with my money. He's a kid, relies on me for support, and has no right or standing to demand that I buy him a bike. I buy the clothes on his back, the food in his belly, and so on.

    However, I'm still an a** for going back on what I promised. It makes me a bad father. It sets a bad example. it teaches my kid the wrong things.

    And if I didn't have the money to buy the kid a bike, I should have never made the promise in the first place.

    Again, stop excusing and enabling bad behavior.
    except that is completely different from a business. Wow lets think about this as a father you can promise him the world and not deliver. Sign it in writing that is different since that becomes a legal agreement. So try using something actually worth it. companies use agreements/contracts to protect themselves and their interests. they always add subject to change. God forbid something actually happen and change the thing. you can get upset all you want but they have every right to do it. don't like it don't play but seriously open your eyes and read EVERY contract out there. There is something like this in every one of them games, cars, music concerts, anything.

    So yeah im going to back them on this because its legal. its not about it being right. scream unfair all you want doesnt change anything.

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