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    Default Theorybuild - The Angel of Death

    Theorybuild - The Angel of Death

    With the warm reception of Nature's Song & Dance, time to go really outside the box for the next theorybuild. Or is it back in the box? This one turns the multiclassing concept on its head... and has a Pure Build?! ***?

    A recent thread on the forums caught my attention in discussing Paladins, right here, discussing whether there was any room in the game for a Pure Paladin and if there is any real reason why you *wouldn't* multi-class. Extra needed feats, bumped up reflex/will saves, Evasion, Haste Boost & UMD ... I can certainly think of plenty of reasons why might you *want* to multi-class a Paladin.

    To me, multi-classing a Paladin is as natural as breathing. Almost. The expansion pack has changed all that though. Particularly Epic destinies.

    So here's my current Work in Progress - 'The Angel of Death'. My first ever, Pure Build with Enhancement Capstone character

    20 Paladin - Knight of the Chalice 3
    Full BAB
    7 Standard Feats - Full TWF, PA, IC: Slash, Toughness and Ex: Khopesh
    Full amount of Smites
    Exalted Smite 3
    Divine Might 4
    Intimidate or Diplomacy Ranks
    UMD 11 Ranks

    Half Elf
    32pt Build: 15 Str, 15, Dex, 14 Con, 10 Int, 8 Wis, 15 Cha (wants +3 tomes).
    3D6 Sneak Attack - Rogue Dilletante
    30% Damage Boost - Human Versatility 4

    Shadow Dancer 5
    6D6 Sneak Attack
    Shrouding Strikes Damage
    Executioners Strike - Instant Kill strike based on Dex
    Evasion!
    Immunity to Energy Drain
    Bonus Light Armour AC, MDB and Reflex
    Incorporeal Form
    Invisibility/Displacement 90s
    Oncoming Darkness Epic Moment (see below)

    Twists
    30% Haste Boost - Legendary Dreadnought
    Improved Power Attack - Legendary Dreadnought
    Extra Action Boost - Legendary Dreadnought

    There's lots of other interesting ones as well: Endless Smiting, Healing Hands, Hail of Blows, Healing Spring, Primal Scream, Sense Weakness

    Notable Equipment
    Dual Radiance 2 khopeshes
    Seal of Avithoul Ring
    Adamantine Cloak of the Wolf

    So what really drew me to this Build? Lots of Damage....

    The core concept of all this was to stack as much damage per TWF Strike as possible. I potentially forsee the following, assuming the use of Greensteel Radiance 2 weaponry:

    2[1D8] Base with Improved Power Attack
    2D6 Holy Damage vs Evil on Hit
    1D6 Fire Damage on Hit
    9D6 Sneak Attack Damage on Hit - Stacking Dilletante/Shadow Dancer
    1D6 Holy Damage vs Evil on Hit - Capstone

    And Situationally:
    2D6 Light Damage vs. Evil Outsiders & Undead - Capstone
    4D6 Damage vs. Evil Outsiders - KotC3
    3D6 Damage vs. Evil Outsiders - KotC3 ToD Ring Set
    2D6 Unholy-typed damage vs. All on Hit - Oncoming Darkness Epic moment

    On Crit:
    +2D10 Fire damage on Crits - Flaming Burst
    +2D10 Fire damage on Crits - Flaming Blast
    +4D6 Light Damage on Crits - Radiance
    +4D6 Fire Damage on Vorpal - Flaming Blast

    On top of this consider combining Divine Favour and Divine Might for the full +11/+11 damage per hit - practically equivalent to an additional +22 on Main Hand / +44 on Off Hand Strength! Thats some 'Rage' mode you can use to pump up that damage.

    Everyone hates Divine Mights activation and I fully agree. But I'll put up with that until the enhancement pass for that amount of damage.

    Need to go to town and ramp up your DPS further? Throw on 30% Haste Boost and 30% Damage Boost. Finally, with pure Paladin, we can take the full Exalted Smite 4 to get those Stars-aligned crits we all dream about.

    For me, this may be the only Pure Classed character I'll ever play.

    Epic Feats - No Overwhelming Crit?
    I had a good debate about this one with myself. In the end, I found it more plausible in the playstyle of the build (single target focussed DPS) that missing out on Cleaves and having Khopesh anyway realistically negates any real need for Overwhelming Critical. Also, I like the extra two feats for customisability on the build. Improved Sunder and Quicken? Extend and Maximise? Stunning Blow and Dodge? Lots of choice here for customisation.

    Divine Might 4 - 20 Charisma??
    Base 15 Charisma, +3 Tome, 2 level up points, job done.

    KOTC?!
    While subjective 'end game' is no longer all about running Shroud and Tower of Despair, these are still very popular raids, as is Demon Queen. I think its down to viewpoint for me - against normal enemies, my Sneak damage and sheer number of other dice and tricks is good enough for alot of content out there. Going up against Evil Outsiders? Hell, you automatically turn the DPS Volume upto 11. Don't forget, theres a wide variety of Evil Demons in the Expansion pack, and plenty of undead too to turn your PrE and Capstone against.

    Also, there is a spare feat slot if you really want to back down and go for Defender of Siberys. Personally, I'm giving KotC a spin.

    For any Dev out there, I will comment here and say that KotC is too focused. The PrE could really do with broadening out to combines certain multitudes of evil enemies so its less restrictive, or even take a leaf out of Smite Evil's cookbook and just type it against 'Evil' enemies.

    You can have *most* of that with a two splash
    Well, yeah, of course you can. Splash and you get more flexibility in your build and more versatility. I guess this Theorybuild is more about maximising what you can get out of a Pure Character class Build with the right Epic Destiny tacked on top. I love having Evasion, and a Pure Pally with Evasion is like an Alchemist turning Lead into Gold, for me.

    DPS Paladin? Are you having a Laugh?
    *Shrug* Not really. This guy should work out very well.

    More on Equipment
    This build is springing out of an attempt to create a THF Paladin14/Monk6 Quarterstaff build that I gave a whirl. It didn't live upto even my meagre expectations, so this is where he's going next for some fun. It does mean that gear wise, he has an awesome amount of stuff already, and alot of suitable items already.

    Really the Radiance weaponry and an Improved Deception Proc is whats really crucial for me. Greensteel Radiance weapons are expensive to build (12 LDS for a pair with Flaming Blast!) but offer alot of extra dice for the fun. A Seal fo Avithoul covers off not only your Improved Deception Proc, but also maxises Sneak Damage from item enhancements.

    Hide of the Goristro and a Planar focus of Prowess can allow you to fit in the requisite 8 Strength, +3 Ins Strength, 10% Melee Alacrity and if your really lucky a useful Shatter +10 Mod. I'm really fancying Improved Sunder on this build, and would really help sustain the Sneak DPS against against Raid Bosses.

    Lorinthor's ToD set really isn't a necessity here. I think it might be a good swap in set to have for additional DPS in the right Raids, but unless you already have it I wouldn't bust a gut for it.

    For extra kicks, I would really love a pair of Epic Chaosblades. This build should surpass the necessary 30 UMD easily, and with the Capstone can do double DR breaking. Vampirism is always great when shortmanning.

    So your actually going to build this Monstrosity?
    Yes. Check back in two weeks after my double LRs. I have 95% of the gear I want for this build, including the Radiance Khopeshes, Seal of Avithoul, Planar Focus of Prowess and Lorinthor set.

    Remember - Its a Theorybuild
    Feel free to discuss and tailor to your own needs. As with any of my Theorybuilds, its designed to provoke thinking and thoughtful discussion rather than be the best, leetist build going currently. Enjoy.
    The Theorybuild Author
    Quote Originally Posted by twinstronglord View Post
    Up to this point we've all been beating around the bush. Lolth has a very small box in which you can hit her.

  2. #2
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    Sounds good and looks fun to play.

    Won't a fury paladin still do a lot more damage and not be sneak attack dependent?
    +13 base (or does it only apply to one hand without handwraps?)
    + tunnel vision + sense weakness
    + exalted smite adrenalines (either heavy pick mainhand khopesh offhand or a two hander)

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by maddong View Post
    Sounds good and looks fun to play.

    Won't a fury paladin still do a lot more damage and not be sneak attack dependent?
    +13 base (or does it only apply to one hand without handwraps?)
    + tunnel vision + sense weakness
    + exalted smite adrenalines (either heavy pick mainhand khopesh offhand or a two hander)
    Absolutely, a Fury Paladin will do more raw DPS and be less SA dependant. But he wont have evasion with stellar saves, if he's Pure Pally, and thats a bit of a winner for me personally

    I kind of also like the interesting peices of Shadowdancer - Shadow form for 25% Incorp, Improved Invisibility for Displacement, alot of extra dodge and also the possiblity of Insta kills with Executioners Strike (when they fix the DC).

    The only slight downside to Fury is some of the abilities require Rage, which goes out the Window if you want to pick up DoS instead of KotC.
    The Theorybuild Author
    Quote Originally Posted by twinstronglord View Post
    Up to this point we've all been beating around the bush. Lolth has a very small box in which you can hit her.

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    If you want to do DOS can you just max out your adrenalines while in defensive stance, drop defensive stance, burst out your exalted smite adrenalines, then go back into stance? Or do you not build up adrenalines while in stance?

    The shadowdancer pure paladin does sound fun. I'm thinking of TRing into a paladin soon and was planning on doing fury but might reconsider.

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    Quote Originally Posted by maddong View Post
    If you want to do DOS can you just max out your adrenalines while in defensive stance, drop defensive stance, burst out your exalted smite adrenalines, then go back into stance? Or do you not build up adrenalines while in stance?

    The shadowdancer pure paladin does sound fun. I'm thinking of TRing into a paladin soon and was planning on doing fury but might reconsider.
    As far as I can tell, using Adrenaline strikes in DoS Stance isn't a problem. However, it does make you immune to Primal Scream, which in turn means you can't use Tunnel Vision as it only works when raged.

    Unstoppable fury and Acute Instincts also require you to be raged, but these are less desirable than the above.

    I'm now counting down the days to my LR
    The Theorybuild Author
    Quote Originally Posted by twinstronglord View Post
    Up to this point we've all been beating around the bush. Lolth has a very small box in which you can hit her.

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    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    With 9 feats that's enough for TWF x3, Toughness, Imp Crit, PA/CL/GC, OC. So out of curiosity, have you crunched what the DPS would be like w/scimitars+OC vs khopesh w/out OC? Also curious what it would be like if you Twisted in Lay Waste & Momentum Swing that way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    With 9 feats that's enough for TWF x3, Toughness, Imp Crit, PA/CL/GC, OC. So out of curiosity, have you crunched what the DPS would be like w/scimitars+OC vs khopesh w/out OC?
    I think realistically it would be a wash - your getting 15-18/x2 and 19-20/x3 vs 17-20/x3, which in a really bad oversimplification of the math is 8 sets of critical hits in total for each weapon. Seeker/Burst/Blast effects would work out roughly the same, I think. Khopesh might even slightly win out due to the slightly higher base damage, assuming the same +X[W] Damage amounts.

    Rapiers/Scimitars do lends there weight to getting the usual Paladin stars-aligned crits on Divine Sacrifice / Exalted Smites however, though with slightly lower numbers on crits of 15-18.

    What I prefer with the Khopeshes though is that simplification of no Cleaves - yes, there nice, and every damn melee build I've ran since the Xpack has released has had them to get Overwhelming Critical. With this simpler build you just run, proc ya Deception or Blind the Target, and Sneak/Capstone/KotC/Crit damage your mob into Oblivion.

    I think realistically though you have two situations:

    1. Mass trash co-ordination, by proccing Blindness/Improved Deception through Cleaves for mass trash Sneak attacks.

    2. Concentrating on being 'above-par' vs. single targets. The feat freedom here could allow for example Precision and Improved Sunder as flexible feats, granting a possible 35% Personal Fort Bypass.

    But there's nothing stopping the Khopesh Paladin from taking Cleave and an optional feat or even Great Cleave as well, for the best of both worlds. I like that available flexibility here from the Epic feats without tying yourself in.

    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    Also curious what it would be like if you Twisted in Lay Waste & Momentum Swing that way.
    I'm very hesitant to leave the Haste Boost out of this Build. Haste Boost & Damage Boost on this build should be frighteningly sick dps output, especially when you've 'Deceptioned' a single target and then removed (Imprv Sunder/Precision) or ignored (Dark Elusion) any fortification sneak attack invulnerability.

    That said, if you decide to pick up the Cleaves regardless of weapon choice, then they could be solid adds to the build, especially with the knockdown CC element of Lay waste combined with Radiance Blindness.
    Last edited by Arlathen; 10-29-2012 at 02:10 PM.
    The Theorybuild Author
    Quote Originally Posted by twinstronglord View Post
    Up to this point we've all been beating around the bush. Lolth has a very small box in which you can hit her.

  8. #8
    Community Member HatsuharuZ's Avatar
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    This build looks like it might work. Good job, you obviously put alot of thought into this


    Say, have you thought of combining paladin with Fatesinger?

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    Quote Originally Posted by HatsuharuZ View Post
    This build looks like it might work. Good job, you obviously put alot of thought into this

    Say, have you thought of combining paladin with Fatesinger?
    Almost been there, almost done that - but with Ranger

    To be honest, I don't think I try to crowbar in Fatesinger with Paladin, especially pure Paladin. As Paladin excludes Bard levels due to Alignment conflict, you'll only get the base songs from the ED to play with and I'm not feeling that's enough to get the best out of the destiny.

    Also don't forget your getting a major bonus in Shadowdancer of Evasion to combine with Pure Paladin. You'd be missing that with Fatesinger.
    The Theorybuild Author
    Quote Originally Posted by twinstronglord View Post
    Up to this point we've all been beating around the bush. Lolth has a very small box in which you can hit her.

  10. #10
    Community Member maddmatt70's Avatar
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    Nice build concept. You could drop khopesh and have a couple of balizarde raid rapiers with some heavy picks. That would save the khopesh feat and then you could pick up overwhelming critical. Your twists need some work: Sense weakness, endless smiting, and endless lay on hands are all far better then what you post for twists so look to fit in those because they really are better then a couple of haste boosts etc.. One non traditional build that i have been playing around with is a paladin draconic.. Not sure what the energy burst damage would be but hmm..
    Norg Fighter12/Paladin6/Monk2, Jacquiej Cleric18/Monk1/Wiz1, Rabiez Bard16/Ranger3/Cleric1, Hangover Bard L20, Boomsticks Fighter12/Monk 6/Druid 2, Grumblegut Ranger8/Paladin6/Monk6, Rabidly Rogue L20, Furiously Rogue10/Monk6/Paladin4, Snowcones Cleric 12/Ranger 6/Monk 2, Norge Barbarian 12/FVS4/Rogue4. Guild:Prophets of The New Republic Khyber.

  11. #11
    Community Member maddmatt70's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arlathen View Post
    I think realistically it would be a wash - your getting 15-18/x2 and 19-20/x3 vs 17-20/x3, which in a really bad oversimplification of the math is 8 sets of critical hits in total for each weapon. Seeker/Burst/Blast effects would work out roughly the same, I think. Khopesh might even slightly win out due to the slightly higher base damage, assuming the same +X[W] Damage amounts.

    Rapiers/Scimitars do lends there weight to getting the usual Paladin stars-aligned crits on Divine Sacrifice / Exalted Smites however, though with slightly lower numbers on crits of 15-18.

    What I prefer with the Khopeshes though is that simplification of no Cleaves - yes, there nice, and every damn melee build I've ran since the Xpack has released has had them to get Overwhelming Critical. With this simpler build you just run, proc ya Deception or Blind the Target, and Sneak/Capstone/KotC/Crit damage your mob into Oblivion.

    .
    I disagree with your analysis the Balizarde is x3 crit and heavy picks is x4 that in my opinon is the weapon type of choice for pure paladin especially if going as a fury of the wild which is the best dps destiny for paladins. The shadowdancer is more of defensive/offensive destiny choice.
    Norg Fighter12/Paladin6/Monk2, Jacquiej Cleric18/Monk1/Wiz1, Rabiez Bard16/Ranger3/Cleric1, Hangover Bard L20, Boomsticks Fighter12/Monk 6/Druid 2, Grumblegut Ranger8/Paladin6/Monk6, Rabidly Rogue L20, Furiously Rogue10/Monk6/Paladin4, Snowcones Cleric 12/Ranger 6/Monk 2, Norge Barbarian 12/FVS4/Rogue4. Guild:Prophets of The New Republic Khyber.

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    Nice build concept. You could drop khopesh and have a couple of balizarde raid rapiers with some heavy picks. That would save the khopesh feat and then you could pick up overwhelming critical. Your twists need some work: Sense weakness, endless smiting, and endless lay on hands are all far better then what you post for twists so look to fit in those because they really are better then a couple of haste boosts etc.. One non traditional build that i have been playing around with is a paladin draconic.. Not sure what the energy burst damage would be but hmm..
    Thanks, and in short I can only agree. Dual Balizarde's would be pretty awesome for Critical damage, and allow for OC feat as well. It's such a shame that my loot luck in CitW is absolutely terrible. I don't think I've even seen Balizarde drop in 15 runs of a mix of EN/EH.

    As for the twists, again for top DPS thrashing and regenerating LoHs its one way to go. Haste Boost is more of a personal choice for me, I love dual boosting Haste/Damage.

    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    I disagree with your analysis the Balizarde is x3 crit and heavy picks is x4 that in my opinon is the weapon type of choice for pure paladin especially if going as a fury of the wild which is the best dps destiny for paladins. The shadowdancer is more of defensive/offensive destiny choice.
    Balizarde as a named, raid weapon is definitly up there as weapon of choice for the Paladin in my opinion. Heavy Picks... maybe not quite yet, a decent named Heavy Pick could be all the difference. I still like Khopesh though as a good all round weapon - High Crit Multiplier and Decent Crit Range profile.

    I also agree that Fury/LD are definite 'higher DPS' destinies for Paladins, especially pure ones.

    Theorybuild

    I think I'll point out here that really a 'Theorybuild' idea is to present a core concept or style or theme, and then allow for wiggle room on personal choice in absolute terms. If you want Max DPS, your choices are solid - go get a pair of Raid Rapiers and go Fury instead.

    My basic theme here though is taking a Pure paladin, getting most of what you can with a 2 splash anyway (critically, Evasion) and also knocking up the extras from Capstone and level 19/20 enhancements. Stacking up 9D6 Sneak Attack, on a Pure Paladin, is just such a massive bonus on the more traditional Paladin outlook on DPS.
    The Theorybuild Author
    Quote Originally Posted by twinstronglord View Post
    Up to this point we've all been beating around the bush. Lolth has a very small box in which you can hit her.

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    Community Member Nodoze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    Nice build concept. You could drop khopesh and have a couple of balizarde raid rapiers with some heavy picks. That would save the khopesh feat and then you could pick up overwhelming critical. Your twists need some work: Sense weakness, endless smiting, and endless lay on hands are all far better then what you post for twists so look to fit in those because they really are better then a couple of haste boosts etc.. One non traditional build that i have been playing around with is a paladin draconic.. Not sure what the energy burst damage would be but hmm..
    Maddmatt, Would 'Endless Turning' for near infinite Divine Might IV be better than already regenerating Smites coming back 30% faster? Not sure if Censure Demons can get a viable DC or not... I guess most end boss fights have a shrine before them but something about adding regenerating LoHs & regenerating DM4s to Smites (which already regenerate) seems more versatile than dropping one of the regeneration areas for faster smites.

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    Community Member maddmatt70's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nodoze View Post
    Maddmatt, Would 'Endless Turning' for near infinite Divine Might IV be better than already regenerating Smites coming back 30% faster? Not sure if Censure Demons can get a viable DC or not... I guess most end boss fights have a shrine before them but something about adding regenerating LoHs & regenerating DM4s to Smites (which already regenerate) seems more versatile than dropping one of the regeneration areas for faster smites.
    Endless Turning could be better then endless smite some day if they upgrade divine might, add more paladin turn based effects, and make censure demons more viable, but as it stands now with 11-18 turns pallys get the endless turning is not that appealing.

    You do bring up a point that endless smiting is less exciting in this destiny then it is in Fury of the Wild with the dps that adrenaline smites provide. Sense Weakness is clearly the most essential twist because it would add so much dps to this build. I think because of this destiny choice endless lay on hands maybe the number two twist which is a tier 3. In update 16 which is coming soon a player could fit in a tier 4, tier 3, and tier 1 and since Sense Weakness is tier 4 and Endless lay on hands tier 3 and throw in what have you for tier 1.
    Norg Fighter12/Paladin6/Monk2, Jacquiej Cleric18/Monk1/Wiz1, Rabiez Bard16/Ranger3/Cleric1, Hangover Bard L20, Boomsticks Fighter12/Monk 6/Druid 2, Grumblegut Ranger8/Paladin6/Monk6, Rabidly Rogue L20, Furiously Rogue10/Monk6/Paladin4, Snowcones Cleric 12/Ranger 6/Monk 2, Norge Barbarian 12/FVS4/Rogue4. Guild:Prophets of The New Republic Khyber.

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    Community Member Nodoze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    Endless Turning could be better then endless smite some day if they upgrade divine might, add more paladin turn based effects, and make censure demons more viable, but as it stands now with 11-18 turns pallys get the endless turning is not that appealing.

    You do bring up a point that endless smiting is less exciting in this destiny then it is in Fury of the Wild with the dps that adrenaline smites provide. Sense Weakness is clearly the most essential twist because it would add so much dps to this build. I think because of this destiny choice endless lay on hands maybe the number two twist which is a tier 3. In update 16 which is coming soon a player could fit in a tier 4, tier 3, and tier 1 and since Sense Weakness is tier 4 and Endless lay on hands tier 3 and throw in what have you for tier 1.
    Thanks and all good things to consider. I really like the idea of all 3 regenerating and not having limits but agree that 11-18mins of DM should be enough if managed properly & 30% more Smites would be more exciting.

    I agree for 'The Angel of Death' that 'Sense Weakness' seems more essential than faster regenerating smites & Endless LoHs make a lot of sense. Your points are giving me food for thought for my Drow KoTC and faster regenerating smites synergy with Adrenaline sounds tempting.

    How does TWF compare to THF on FotW? Do the TWF offhand procs have their own confirmation rolls giving you more chances at a 'vorpal' to fuel 'Fury Eternal' & 'Unbridled Fury' ?
    Last edited by Nodoze; 10-30-2012 at 01:16 PM. Reason: clarifing conceed point on smites vs turns...

  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    You do bring up a point that endless smiting is less exciting in this destiny then it is in Fury of the Wild with the dps that adrenaline smites provide. Sense Weakness is clearly the most essential twist because it would add so much dps to this build. I think because of this destiny choice endless lay on hands maybe the number two twist which is a tier 3. In update 16 which is coming soon a player could fit in a tier 4, tier 3, and tier 1 and since Sense Weakness is tier 4 and Endless lay on hands tier 3 and throw in what have you for tier 1.
    I'm starting to come round to the Sense Weakness way of thinking, but only because I can fit that in alongside Haste Boost as well with Update 16

    I'm personally not so fussed over Endless Lay on Hands - its very nice, but not an essential twist. For endless healing the build could quite easily choose Quicken & Maximise and fit in a Torc, using the customisable feat slots and freeing up the valuable twist.

    But that's the beauty here, choose what you want for your build.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nodoze View Post
    Thanks and all good things to consider. I really like the idea of all 3 regenerating and not having limits but agree that 11-18mins of DM should be enough if managed properly & 30% more Smites would be more exciting.

    I agree for 'The Angel of Death' that 'Sense Weakness' seems more essential than faster regenerating smites & Endless LoHs make a lot of sense. Your points are giving me food for thought for my Drow KoTC and faster regenerating smites synergy with Adrenaline sounds tempting.

    How does TWF compare to THF on FotW? Do the TWF offhand procs have their own confirmation rolls giving you more chances at a 'vorpal' to fuel 'Fury Eternal' & 'Unbridled Fury' ?
    In regards to your own Drow KotC, I think yours is the case where you go Fury and not Shadowdancer. Half Elves really do make the most of the sneak Attack with the additional 3D6 base, and if you don't have the resources or inclination to get Radiance/Seal of Avithoul then there's strong reasons to go elsewhere.

    Also, from the way I understand it, yes, you should generate more Adrenaline through TWF.
    The Theorybuild Author
    Quote Originally Posted by twinstronglord View Post
    Up to this point we've all been beating around the bush. Lolth has a very small box in which you can hit her.

  17. #17
    Community Member Nodoze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arlathen View Post
    I'm starting to come round to the Sense Weakness way of thinking, but only because I can fit that in alongside Haste Boost as well with Update 16

    I'm personally not so fussed over Endless Lay on Hands - its very nice, but not an essential twist. For endless healing the build could quite easily choose Quicken & Maximise and fit in a Torc, using the customisable feat slots and freeing up the valuable twist.

    But that's the beauty here, choose what you want for your build.



    In regards to your own Drow KotC, I think yours is the case where you go Fury and not Shadowdancer. Half Elves really do make the most of the sneak Attack with the additional 3D6 base, and if you don't have the resources or inclination to get Radiance/Seal of Avithoul then there's strong reasons to go elsewhere.

    Also, from the way I understand it, yes, you should generate more Adrenaline through TWF.
    Flexibility is good and with u16 you get to Sense Weakness in your cake while eating your bigger bites faster!

    I really like your build as something about a pure Paladin 'dancing in the Shadows' is tempting... Dark Elusion stacked with the other ways of getting mega-sneak attack damage even when having aggro & being being able to ghost is appealing...

    For my Drow I sadly think you are right & wish they had a race change in the DDO store so I wouldn't have to level from 1-20 again (which I don't want to do) to try to do something like this... If I go Drow KoTC-Fury (with Matt's faster regen smites) & Drow get racial Tempest when the Enhancement changes drop maybe I will be happy to be Drow in the end...

    Speaking of racial enhancements, after they drop, it will be interesting to see if a halfling with racial Assassin ends up being better than HEs for a pure Paladin/ShadowDancer build...

    Edit: I just remembered reading that Human or HE may end up being able to take any racial PrE so HE may end up with stacking Pre & Dilettante...
    Last edited by Nodoze; 10-30-2012 at 05:52 PM. Reason: clarify

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    Status Update - Paladin 19/Monk 1/ShadowDancer 5

    I completed the LR+5 last night. Now Paladin 19/Monk 1, with a final LR+1 next week to complete the Pure Spec out. I couldn't wait to take him for a trial run, so specced him out as follows:

    Quicken & Precision as tested Epic feats.

    Enhancements / Prestige
    KotC3, with Maxed Exalted Smite 4 / DM3 / DS2 / Extra Smite 4

    Wanted to give as much of the build a test out as I could, so even chucked in KotC for a run.

    Gear
    Epic Woodsmans Leathers
    Epic Drow smoke Goggles
    GS Helm - 300SP, ConOpp
    GS Cloak - Min 2, 45HP
    Epic Prowess Trinket - Ins Str +3
    Epic Seal of Avithoul
    Epic Ring of the Bucaneer, slotted Heavy Fort
    Epic Brawler Gloves, slotted Charisma +6
    Epic Sun Soul Bracers
    Epic Sun Soul Belt
    Crafted Resistance +5 Necklace
    Jet Boots / Madstone Boots

    There's a lot of work to do on this setup removing the duplicate effects and getting in more DPS but it did for a trial run.

    So I dragged this guy through all three Epic Hard Domonweb quests, with a 22 Artificer by my side and a pair of FvS Hirelings.

    Initial thoughts on running the Character

    1. DPS

    Holy Mother of God why didn't I ever do this before?!?! 'Frickin Redonkulous' is a very good way I'd put the subjective feel of what this guy can do in terms of DPS.

    The numbers simply fly. I was easily managing 110-130 damage per hit with Sneaks and Effects piled in, even more vs the Demons when KotC kicked. Normal Crits were nice, not overly impressive as there's more room for improvement there.

    However Exalted Smite 4 is the absolutely business. With Damage Boost 30% running at the time, I hit a 750pt Critical Hit off a Exalted Smite 4, and regularly hit 620-680pt crits without the damage boost..

    I was also pleasantly surpised at how much Fire damage everything takes in the Demonweb.

    Perhaps the Demonweb wasn't the best inital test to due to slightly elevated damage buff you get, but since I usually solo quests often, having a companion and a bunch of hirelings helped inflate the HP of the mobs to offset this so I could get a good feel for the damage output.

    I'm really, really looking forward to finishing to Paladin 20, and getting even more!


    2. Haste Boost 4 & Damage Boost 4 is Glorious!

    All of the above, but 30% faster and with 30% more damage. Rediculously good fun, going up against a Red named Boss and then battering them senseless, stupidly fast was just ... bliss.

    Initial thoughts on Areas for Improvements

    1. Self-Healing

    Outside the LoHs, its a bit pants. There's not enough Spellpower or Healing Amp at present to get the Quickened CSW/CMW/CLW upto throwing up some decent numbers. Need to put some more thought into this side of things. I envy people with three Paladin past lives

    2. Finish off the Epic Destiny & better Defenses

    I only got Shadow Dancer upto the base Tier 5, with no ED Points to spend on the Tier 6 abilities. Importantly this means I don't have shadow Form for the 25% Incorporeality. A Perma blur item might be handy as well for when Improved Invisibility has finished and is on timer for 2 minutes. Avoidance needs a step up, but with 600+ HP its still a meaty character to have.

    3. More DPS!

    Missing both the Capstone, Oncoming Darkness and Exceptional Seeker from the gearset for even more DPS. Cormyrian Red Dragon armour is a very distinct possibility on this character, now.

    4. Executioners Strike needs to be fixed.

    After all this time since MotU release, I can't believe there are still serious bugs with Epic destinies. Even against some weakling casters, Executioners Strike was saved with my DC49 ability. Granted it has a 1/3 proc chance, but when it did proc it was saved everytime. My Paladin wants awesome DPS *and* Instant-Kills!

    Time to go do some research and gear planning....
    Last edited by Arlathen; 11-02-2012 at 08:25 AM.
    The Theorybuild Author
    Quote Originally Posted by twinstronglord View Post
    Up to this point we've all been beating around the bush. Lolth has a very small box in which you can hit her.

  19. #19
    Community Member Nodoze's Avatar
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    Glad to hear! Please update back after the second reincarnate makes you pure Paladin (yet still with Evasion). Please remember to update the build in the Original Post (OP) to reflect what you end up deciding are optimal enhancements/etc (for example, if you decide to keep Exaulted Smite 4 instead of ES3 like in the OP).

    Edit: Please also add recommended feats when you finalize them. I see where you denoted that you had 2 epic feats to customize with but curious what you decide after playing with it for awhile.

    I personally am a big fan of strong self healing and feel the ability to do it in combat can really set this build apart from many other DPS builds. You denoted that your self healing needs work so maybe try to work in Empower Healing &/or Maximize. In your OP you mentioned Empower/Maximize but with the recent changes, for a Paladin, I would do Empower Healing over Empower as it gives the same healing bonus as Empower but is cheaper; In addition to heal amp & slotting a devotion item bonus somewhere, you may want to also pick up 'Paladin Devotion I' for 1AP (or even PDII for 3AP if you can fit it in) and see how you like it.
    Last edited by Nodoze; 11-02-2012 at 09:07 AM. Reason: found stats and thoughts on self healing

  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nodoze View Post
    Glad to hear! Please update back after the second reincarnate makes you pure Paladin (yet still with Evasion). Please remember to update the build in the Original Post (OP) to reflect what you end up deciding are optimal enhancements/etc (for example, if you decide to keep Exaulted Smite 4 instead of ES3 like in the OP).
    I promise I will try, the only thing that may stop me updating is that I'm too busy having fun playing the character
    The Theorybuild Author
    Quote Originally Posted by twinstronglord View Post
    Up to this point we've all been beating around the bush. Lolth has a very small box in which you can hit her.

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