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  1. #1
    Community Member Zachski's Avatar
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    Default I want to make a support character

    Not a "healbot", mind you, but I want to make a character (pure, first life) that makes everyone else awesome and healthy, while contributing what he can.

    My choices, therefore, seem to consist of Bard, Cleric, or Favored Soul. (Don't have Druid)

    While Artificer is a support class, I'd rather not pick it because tossing potions everywhere could get expensive :P

    I kinda want to make this because I'm tired of how I seem to solo in a social game despite the fact that it is a social game, and I picked the game for that exact reason.

    I know that the support role isn't really even necessary, but it'd actually be kinda nice to make other people awesome. Kinda like the Medic in TF2.

    I don't want to be entirely helpless either, though. That would be unfortunate.

    In short, while I know that a good, well-funded Cleric/FVS can keep the enemy suppressed and dead while keeping his allies alive, I'm not good at this game. So I figured that before I should learn to support and buff first, then work on fighting enemies while buffing and supporting.
    Once I get my moods under control, I might actually get a character past level 7... ooh, shiny!

    Paladins got some love! Now for Warpriests...

  2. #2
    Community Member taurean430's Avatar
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    Halfling Wachanter Bard with Dragonmarks + halfling companion? You'd likely end up in high demand. Shade would come to your house and wake you up with coffee and kind words encouraging you to log in :P

    Second part I'm totally joking, but the first is serious. I've been toying with something like this for a couple of years. Works well, even with the changes.
    Khyber: Evandus, Halfdeadd, Licoricewhip, Sawyn, Elkabongg, Brothanumsi, Soulbro, Cromix.
    And an army of gimp experiments!

  3. #3
    Community Member Zachski's Avatar
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    Caster Bard, right? I can see Warchanter due to the absolute maximum Inspire Courage potential.

    (Would the dragonmarks even be necessary?)

    I should clarify further, I'm making a character that kinda has to rely on others, to encourage myself to actually party with other people and socialize with them.

    Halfling Companion sounds awesome, though.
    Once I get my moods under control, I might actually get a character past level 7... ooh, shiny!

    Paladins got some love! Now for Warpriests...

  4. #4
    Community Member taurean430's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zachski View Post
    Caster Bard, right? I can see Warchanter due to the absolute maximum Inspire Courage potential.

    (Would the dragonmarks even be necessary?)

    I should clarify further, I'm making a character that kinda has to rely on others, to encourage myself to actually party with other people and socialize with them.

    Halfling Companion sounds awesome, though.
    On the one I made as an experiment I found the following to be true:

    Can heal when needed, if needed.

    Max IC, other songs save Epic Destiny stuff is a big cup of meh. Halfling heroes companion is the bees knees for a dps.

    The Dragonmarks are only for emergency heals, not necessary to take at all. I did for fun. Not doing so would allow enough space to fit in music of the makers if needed.

    At the time I did this, I used a 28pt build with a staff of fleshshaping. Worked really well when you have static players. Wand and scroll mastery made inexpensive scrolls highly effective in between throwing mass cures. 16 charisma investment with level ups made for good crowd control as well. Cannith crafting overpowered him really. He had stupid high perform as well as static devotion in a body slot to help when hotswapping between scrolls and a weapon. You can fight if you want to, but str is basically dumped. I went with level ups in charisma, modest int for skill points (social skills are great). When I do this again I will be using at least 32 build points and splashing one rogue level for trap skills. That and get him a pimp hat

    Melee damage is terribad, but through buffing/singing/umd/social skills he brings alot to the table.
    Khyber: Evandus, Halfdeadd, Licoricewhip, Sawyn, Elkabongg, Brothanumsi, Soulbro, Cromix.
    And an army of gimp experiments!

  5. #5

    Default bard/artificer/rog

    I played a 11/7/2 bard/artificer/rog last life. it was great. I could pass weapon buffs, cast blur and heroism, scroll just about anything, cast a dimension door in a pinch, sing a few songs, and do traps. Besides that, being able to add some significant ranged damage made me a very valuable addition to a party. If all you're looking to do is play support a bard/artificer combo can be great (you can drop the rogue if you don't feel like you'll need evasion).


    Toons: Purr (I'm a Kitten), Awoo (I'm a Wolf), Diseasey (The Roach), Does (Not Compute)

  6. #6
    Community Member taurean430's Avatar
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    I was entertaining the idea of making an elven bard. but being able to dragonmark displace others lost out over halfling heros companion. Seems to me being party support can be available on a large variety of builds.

    You may have to tweak your stats though if you are looking to avoid dps'ing. If you are used to playing aggressively it can be problematic. Not pumping str will accomplish this.
    Khyber: Evandus, Halfdeadd, Licoricewhip, Sawyn, Elkabongg, Brothanumsi, Soulbro, Cromix.
    And an army of gimp experiments!

  7. #7
    Community Member Zachski's Avatar
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    I generally would prefer to keep my character pure, for personal reasons.

    So to that end, I think I'd prefer a pure bard. Warchanter caster seems pretty good...

    I've got 32 point build, so I'll throw together a build as soon as I get the updated builder.
    Once I get my moods under control, I might actually get a character past level 7... ooh, shiny!

    Paladins got some love! Now for Warpriests...

  8. #8
    Community Member taurean430's Avatar
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    Sounds like a plan. I'd be happy to help if I can. There are many other more experienced bard players than myself that will come out of nowhere to help as well haha.

    Funny thing about getting good at being support though - prepare to be incessantly requested to run stuff once the word gets out.
    Khyber: Evandus, Halfdeadd, Licoricewhip, Sawyn, Elkabongg, Brothanumsi, Soulbro, Cromix.
    And an army of gimp experiments!

  9. #9
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    The big flaw in your plan is that the characters who are truly good in their "roles" are usually self-sufficient.

    Anyone that knows how to build and play a fighter/barbarian/rogue well enough to be really good will have a way to heal themselves and mitigate damage. This is even more true on the more overpowered classes, like monks, sorcerers or wizards.

    The closest thing to a true "support" character in DDO would be a tank. But most good tanks can do enough damage to solo anyway.
    Kmnh * Kmn * Kmm * Knn * Knm

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  10. #10
    Community Member Zachski's Avatar
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    And what percentage of the player base manages self sufficiency at levels 1 through 10? 10 through 15? 15 through 20? 20 through 25?
    Once I get my moods under control, I might actually get a character past level 7... ooh, shiny!

    Paladins got some love! Now for Warpriests...

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zachski View Post
    And what percentage of the player base manages self sufficiency at levels 1 through 10? 10 through 15? 15 through 20? 20 through 25?
    Pretty much all the TR grinders and most of the endgame community.
    Kmnh * Kmn * Kmm * Knn * Knm

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  12. #12

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    Not everyone is self sufficient and even the ones who are generally don't object to additional support. I've grouped with a lot of TR grinders who still appreciate healing and buffs. They just expect the buffing to be done on the run and not standing at the entrance.

    My preference is still spellsinger for the caster buffs. It's pretty hard to find a group of players whom a person cannot provide song buffs on a spellsinger. Inspire courage, blur, and hage for the melee who want it, and vigor, trance, and arcane might for the casters. That leaves a person with a contribution for every member of the party instead of just the melee.

    CC isn't always a priority but when it is groups definitely appreciate being good at it. Most generally don't like charms.

    Zachski, IIRC you were not satisfied with the bard play style because it felt like just another melee after the buffing was done. I could always be thinking of someone else, however; that wouldn't be the first time my recollection failed me.

    What are you looking for in the build when you say support? So far pure and caster is what you are looking for, plus some flavor if I understand correctly?

  13. #13
    Community Member Zachski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kmnh View Post
    Pretty much all the TR grinders and most of the endgame community.
    You didn't answer my question: What percentage of the playerbase is that?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aashrym View Post
    Zachski, IIRC you were not satisfied with the bard play style because it felt like just another melee after the buffing was done. I could always be thinking of someone else, however; that wouldn't be the first time my recollection failed me.

    What are you looking for in the build when you say support? So far pure and caster is what you are looking for, plus some flavor if I understand correctly?
    I don't remember ever stating that about the buffing and melee part. I've certainly thought it, though, so I've probably said it at some point.

    So, yes.

    When I mean "support", I mostly mean buffing and healing. Making sure people are kept in tip-top and beyond shape.

    As for what flavor, I'm not sure what flavor I'm going for other than "I want to play support", which is weird.
    Once I get my moods under control, I might actually get a character past level 7... ooh, shiny!

    Paladins got some love! Now for Warpriests...

  14. #14
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
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    16/4 or 15/5 drow Bard/rogue

    Healing, buffs, traps, sneak attack on a monster already aggroed on the fighter...

    Get a radiance rapier and you can even take most monsters head-on.

    I have a 15/5 drow bard/rogue that worked very well for years as a "support" character. Currently, he's in semi-retirement, but I intend to TR him soon.
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    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eth View Post
    When you stop caring about xp/min this game becomes really fun. Trust me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gary_Gygax
    No single character has all the skills and resources needed to guarantee success in all endeavors; favorable results can usually only be achieved through group effort. No single player character wins, in the sense that he or she defeats all other player characters; the goal of the forces of good can only be attained through cooperation, so that victory is a group achievement rather than an individual one.

  15. #15

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    Except splashing is on the list of things to avoid and caster style was stated as desirable.

    I'm thinking helf with artificer dilettante if it's available for a repeater bard, or ranger dillettante and an arcane archer build to avoid some of the melee if that's not something desired. The draw back on those is feats so possibly virt for more of a caster feel by way of songs.

    Spellsinger would still be my first choice for support for the UMD bonuses, extra SP, and caster buffs in addition to IC, haste, rage, and blur. The ability to reliably UMD arti scrolls earlier than other bards PrE's gives a nice damage advantage to hand out.

    Sonic blast and sound burst add a casterish feel at lower levels for the daze / stun and skipping metas makes them pretty affordable. Daze monster and otto's dance are very handy at low levels. With little need for CC the shorter CC sonic spells and individual control spells for some of the tougher monsters work well, with fascinate as a back up for area needs. Hypno is still pretty good at those levels, and hypnotic pattern can be very effective, but daze and stun affect vermin like the plethora of spiders around.

    If the OP wants trap skills and pure classing support an alternative would be the artificer. That adds traps, buffs, ranged damage support, and lobbing cure grenades is pretty handy. I'm not sure the OP is looking at artificers since they were not on the list. The CC is much more lacking that on a bard or divine caster and at higher levels longer lasting CC can be important.

    I agree a rogue splash on a bard makes for some good utility. It just impacts spell casting by losing the capstone and violates the pure class desire expressed.

    Just some thoughts to contemplate, anyway.

  16. #16
    2015 DDO Players Council FuzzyDuck81's Avatar
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    I'd say actually go with artificer - don't worry too much about being a healer, but keep a stack of potions just for emergency healing (maybe use some of the collectable turn-ins for free wands too) & then use your doggy & flame turret to keep aggro off people, give them some buffs etc. & just sit at the back going pewpewpew

    At low to mid levels theres a good chance you'll end up taking enemies out before the melees in your party even get to them (once you get fusilade you can do that with many bosses too), and at mid to high levels you can switch to using stat drain & status-effect weapons - the multi-shot nature means you'll naturally do 3x as much stat damage or have 3x the number of chances to put paralyse, curse, or whatever effects giving some surprisingly powerful crowd control.
    I don't mean to come across as unsympathetic - but I am, so I do.

  17. #17
    Community Member Moltier's Avatar
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    Try a pure spellsinger bard.
    I never liked bards in any game untill i tried this one.
    Spellsingers can heal very well, even epic elites.
    Buff party members, makes melees, divines and other arcanes happy and more powerfull.
    Can cc with fascinate if the group know how it works, and with irresistible dance.
    And of course disco will work on epic hard.

    I made mine halfling, and took hero's companion.
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zachski View Post
    You didn't answer my question: What percentage of the playerbase is that?
    About 80% of the people that I usually quest, trade or chat with.
    Kmnh * Kmn * Kmm * Knn * Knm

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  19. #19
    Community Member Talon_Moonshadow's Avatar
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    Here, hold my cape.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jandric View Post
    ..., but I honestly think the solution is to group with less whiny people.

  20. #20
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zachski View Post
    I should clarify further, I'm making a character that kinda has to rely on others, to encourage myself to actually party with other people and socialize with them.
    If that's your goal, I'd say pure Spellsinger is the way to go; you might even deliberately gimp your STR to ensure you need others to kill stuff for you. Buffs, heals, Enchantment spells - and not much else.

    Thinking something like this:
    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.14.02
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Level 20 True Neutral Human Female
    (20 Bard) 
    Hit Points: 262
    Spell Points: 1046 
    BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
    Fortitude: 10
    Reflex: 11
    Will: 11
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
    Strength              8                     8
    Dexterity             8                     8
    Constitution         18                    18
    Intelligence          8                     8
    Wisdom                8                     8
    Charisma             18                    29
    
    Level 1 (Bard)
    Feat: (Human Bonus) Greater Spell Focus: Enchantment
    Feat: (Selected) Spell Focus: Enchantment
    Spell (1): Cure Light Wounds
    
    
    Level 2 (Bard)
    Spell (1): Hypnotism
    
    
    Level 3 (Bard)
    Feat: (Selected) Toughness
    Spell (1): Sonic Blast
    
    
    Level 4 (Bard)
    Ability Raise: CHA
    Spell (2): Cure Moderate Wounds
    Spell (2): Hold Person
    
    
    Level 5 (Bard)
    Spell (1): Otto's Resistible Dance
    Spell (2): Soundburst
    
    
    Level 6 (Bard)
    Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell
    Enhancement: Bard Extra Song I
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage I
    Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song I
    Enhancement: Bard Spellsinger I
    Enhancement: Human Adaptability Charisma I
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
    Enhancement: Improved Concentration I
    Enhancement: Improved Concentration II
    Enhancement: Bard Lyric of Song I
    Enhancement: Bard Song Magic I
    Enhancement: Bard Song Magic II
    Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music I
    Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music II
    Enhancement: Bard Charisma I
    Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery I
    Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery II
    
    
    Level 7 (Bard)
    Spell (3): Cure Serious Wounds
    Spell (3): Crushing Despair
    Spell (2): Glitterdust
    
    
    Level 8 (Bard)
    Ability Raise: CHA
    Spell (3): Good Hope
    
    
    Level 9 (Bard)
    Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell
    
    
    Level 10 (Bard)
    Spell (3): Displacement
    Spell (4): Cure Critical Wounds
    Spell (4): Otto's Sphere of Dancing
    
    
    Level 11 (Bard)
    Spell (4): Hold Monster
    
    
    Level 12 (Bard)
    Ability Raise: CHA
    Feat: (Selected) Heighten Spell
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage II
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage III
    Enhancement: Bard Spellsinger II
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
    Enhancement: Bard Lyric of Song II
    Enhancement: Bard Song Magic III
    Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music III
    Enhancement: Bard Charisma II
    Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery III
    
    
    Level 13 (Bard)
    Spell (4): Shout
    Spell (5): Mind Fog
    Spell (5): Mass Cure Light Wounds
    
    
    Level 14 (Bard)
    Spell (5): Mass Suggestion
    
    
    Level 15 (Bard)
    Feat: (Selected) Spell Penetration
    
    
    Level 16 (Bard)
    Ability Raise: CHA
    Spell (5): Greater Heroism
    Spell (6): Mass Cure Moderate Wounds
    Spell (6): Otto's Irresistible Dance
    Spell (1): Charm Person
    
    
    Level 17 (Bard)
    Spell (2): Blur
    Spell (6): Greater Shout
    
    
    Level 18 (Bard)
    Feat: (Selected) Greater Spell Penetration
    Spell (3): Haste
    
    
    Level 19 (Bard)
    Spell (6): Mass Charm Monster
    Spell (4): Dominate Person
    
    
    Level 20 (Bard)
    Ability Raise: CHA
    Spell (5): Greater Dispel Magic
    Enhancement: Bard Musical Prodigy
    Enhancement: Bard Lyric of Song III
    Enhancement: Bard Lyric of Incredible Song I
    Enhancement: Bard Song Magic IV
    Enhancement: Bard Improved Spell Penetration I
    Enhancement: Bard Improved Spell Penetration II
    Enhancement: Bard Improved Spell Penetration III
    Enhancement: Bard Charisma III
    Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery IV
    Epic feats: ESF:Enchantment and epic Spell Pen

    Did something I rarely do on bards, namely backload some of the buff spells to focus on CC/debuff spells instead. Also picked up all the sonic spells for added CC and a little DPS.

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