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  1. #581
    Community Member UurlockYgmeov's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Desdain View Post
    I wonder why the power is out in Boston. I'm in Newark, Delaware... storm track is headed directly over my house; yet my power is fine. Boston is literally hundreds of miles away. Is the outage not storm related?
    power distribution and disruption is a PhD level course at MIT.... Sometimes one needs the Oracle at Delphi to understand why something works here but not there.

  2. #582
    Community Member phroggiepuddles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldraven View Post
    Developers, game designers, and programmers in general learned a long time ago that putting a set date in stone on something being done is just an invitation for abuse. That's why many of them simply won't do it anymore, until their product is ready to ship.
    I'm an IT project manager and this drives me nuts!!!! I understand why developers* will never set a timeframe or date... but as I keep saying to the guys I'm managing "I have to put a number of days against this task that you have to perform, it's better you giving me a number than me making one up". So then they give me some totally unrealistic ridiculous number which is completely unacceptable due to the business reasons, so I have to estimate it as good as possible and then the guys get upset with the timeframe they get.

    Actually, my estimates haven't been too bad ... but generally there can be a lot of hate between developers and management because they can never see each others side of the coin (shhhh, don't tell anyone, but the secret is working together, and respecting each others position and opinions). Whether we like it or not, the business and money demands of the job is what sets the framework for what can be achieved - and the client must know how long something is going to take.

    * - when I say "developers" I'm referring to coders, designers, data modellers and architects

  3. #583
    Community Member UurlockYgmeov's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Artos_Fabril View Post
    Point of order: Moore's law addresses hardware, not software.

    The goal should be to write the most efficient code practicable, not to write the heaviest code the hardware can handle.
    Incorrect - a broad interpretation of Moore's Law is that it addresses anything technical - that every 24 months (or so) what was state of the art, cutting edge will be defunct and obsolete.

    Part of this is the foundation that hardware is on the same 2 year (or so) cycle, which by they way is speeding up.

    (the basic straight law from Wiki: Moore's law is the observation that over the history of computing hardware, the number of transistors on integrated circuits doubles approximately every two years)

    Part two of your statement about code: agree - however writing code to the LCD (least common denominator) isn't practical.
    Last edited by UurlockYgmeov; 10-29-2012 at 06:48 PM.

  4. #584
    Community Member Valherus's Avatar
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    Default Lots of resons not to give many details...

    Quote Originally Posted by CrocodileDundee81 View Post
    i understand that ull say when u now more but on that same lvl i agree with ppl al we get told is Mabar event is down it would be nice and polite as a turbine rep to clue us in a little more tell us what the issue your haveing or something as put yourself in our shoes if we took it down n told u o well tell u more when we know you would be just as frustrated as us PLZZZZ just give us some more info anything other than well tell you when we Know
    First, you need to understand that NOBODY at Turbine can tell you when the Mabar event will come up until they know themselves. When Tolero got the official word they told us. That is exactly as much as any of us can expect. Sometimes people have to stop being impatient adolescents and just accept that you have to wait for everything to happen in its proper time.

    The proper time is NOT decided by you or me. The proper time is not even decided by anybody that is likely to be reading your rants and emo dumps. It is decided by a manager in an office at Turbine that has much bigger things to consider than your inability to find anything constructive to do except to complain about a video game. Pathetic.

    With all of that said, I completely understand that people create expectations based on what they are told. When Turbine says that they will have the festival up on a certain date and time, that is what they will expect. Turbine is not always very good at meeting the expectations that they create with their announcements. Still you do not provide anything positive toward a solution by just complaining. All it shows is that you lack the ability to control your anger in ways that contribute to positive results. It means you are immature, self-centered, and overly demanding of people providing you with your entertainment.

    Find something else to do. There are other things to do in DDO and there are zillions of other places to find entertainment. Please do not clutter up threads where we want to find information about the progress of the fix with useless rants. It just makes it much harder for us to find the most recent status of the Mabar event past your whining.

  5. #585
    Community Member Artos_Fabril's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UurlockYgmeov View Post
    Incorrect - a broad interpretation of Moore's Law is that it addresses anything technical - that every 24 months (or so) what was start of the art, cutting edge will be defunct and obsolete.

    Part of this is the foundation that hardware is on the same 2 year (or so) cycle, which by they way is speeding up.

    (the basic straight law from Wiki: Moore's law is the observation that over the history of computing hardware, the number of transistors on integrated circuits doubles approximately every two years)

    Part two of your statement about code: agree - however writing code to the LCD (least common denominator) isn't practical.
    But your broad interpretation of Moore's Law is demonstrably false. There is a huge difference between "doubling the number of transistors on an integrated circuit" and "complete obsolescence of what was previously the state of the art".

    If you had a company, and started writing code for state of the art hardware today, by the time you released a finished product of any significant complexity, the hardware it runs on would be, by your definition, obsolete.

    However, the fact is that there is a pretty wide margin between "State of the Art" and "Obsolete" and the vast majority of all hardware falls into that band. So, while there probably aren't many applications still running on punch cards, and you might well call them obsolete, there are plenty of applications that run just fine on an Athalon 3.4GHz dual core, or Intel i3 processor.

    Edit: See also from Wikipedia
    The Great Moore's Law Compensator (TGMLC), generally referred to as bloat, and also known as Wirth's law, is the principle that successive generations of computer software acquire enough bloat to offset the performance gains predicted by Moore's Law. In a 2008 article in InfoWorld, Randall C. Kennedy,[34] formerly of Intel, introduces this term using successive versions of Microsoft Office between the year 2000 and 2007 as his premise. Despite the gains in computational performance during this time period according to Moore's law, Office 2007 performed the same task at half the speed on a prototypical year 2007 computer as compared to Office 2000 on a year 2000 computer.
    Which is to say, while hardware improves over time, software releases degrade.
    Last edited by Artos_Fabril; 10-29-2012 at 04:33 PM.

  6. #586
    Community Member FoggyKnight's Avatar
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    I'd rather everyone at Turbine hid out from Sandy and stayed safe, rather than going to work in a potential outage situation to work on Mabar. Listening to the wind shriek here and the trees sway several feet from my only car is making me a bit "spooked" already.

  7. #587
    Community Member Pherrys's Avatar
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    Default I agree

    Quote Originally Posted by Valherus View Post
    First, you need to understand that NOBODY at Turbine can tell you when the Mabar event will come up until they know themselves. When Tolero got the official word they told us. That is exactly as much as any of us can expect. Sometimes people have to stop being impatient adolescents and just accept that you have to wait for everything to happen in its proper time.

    The proper time is NOT decided by you or me. The proper time is not even decided by anybody that is likely to be reading your rants and emo dumps. It is decided by a manager in an office at Turbine that has much bigger things to consider than your inability to find anything constructive to do except to complain about a video game. Pathetic.

    With all of that said, I completely understand that people create expectations based on what they are told. When Turbine says that they will have the festival up on a certain date and time, that is what they will expect. Turbine is not always very good at meeting the expectations that they create with their announcements. Still you do not provide anything positive toward a solution by just complaining. All it shows is that you lack the ability to control your anger in ways that contribute to positive results. It means you are immature, self-centered, and overly demanding of people providing you with your entertainment.

    Find something else to do. There are other things to do in DDO and there are zillions of other places to find entertainment. Please do not clutter up threads where we want to find information about the progress of the fix with useless rants. It just makes it much harder for us to find the most recent status of the Mabar event past your whining.
    Complaining is not going to make Mabar come on line any faster. Give the devs a break. It takes alot of skill and talent to make something like this to come together. Once they know when they believe Mabar will be available, they will tell us (hopefully).
    Don't worry, it's only a character building phase we're going through!

  8. #588
    Community Member LeoLionxxx's Avatar
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    Question Yay!

    Assuming the Hotfix is on time and works, when will Mabar be extented to?Around November 12th?
    Because DDO content is created by hand, some issues cannot be fixed with a global change. We must fix these issues one-by-one by hand with the help of bug reports. This includes:
    Ladder issues: please include the /loc when reporting a ladder issue

  9. #589
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    Default eh

    Quote Originally Posted by Valherus View Post
    First, you need to understand that NOBODY at Turbine can tell you when the Mabar event will come up until they know themselves...
    Writing four paragraphs to complain about someone complaining is an exercise in irony.

    As for making it more difficult to find the latest, I thought they just update the original post.

    I agree the post you responded to was pretty much pointless, but when people actually schedule days off from work to enjoy a festival that has run before and was recently test-run... I mean previewed on the Lamannia server, I'd expect more than a few unproductive rants. Especially if they're new to the game and haven't been burned like a few of us have

  10. #590
    The Hatchery DarkForte's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UurlockYgmeov View Post
    Incorrect - a broad interpretation of Moore's Law is that it addresses anything technical - that every 24 months (or so) what was state of the art, cutting edge will be defunct and obsolete.
    Tell that to C.
    Nerdrage/Endgame ~ Sarlona
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  11. #591
    Community Member Alrik_Fassbauer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tolero View Post
    I've been asking myself the same question =/ it's very town-by-town in terms of who does or doesn't have power at the moment. We've definitely started seeing more extreme wind here now... could be worse, but it's enough to cause downed trees that try to catch their balance on power lines.
    If some power lines are literally cut off, others will have to bear the additional load - and might get overloaded because of that.

    Does anyone remember how the lights went out in half of Europe a few years ago ? It was because of that.

  12. #592
    Community Member UurlockYgmeov's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Artos_Fabril View Post
    But your broad interpretation of Moore's Law is demonstrably false. There is a huge difference between "doubling the number of transistors on an integrated circuit" and "complete obsolescence of what was previously the state of the art".

    If you had a company, and started writing code for state of the art hardware today, by the time you released a finished product of any significant complexity, the hardware it runs on would be, by your definition, obsolete.

    However, the fact is that there is a pretty wide margin between "State of the Art" and "Obsolete" and the vast majority of all hardware falls into that band. So, while there probably aren't many applications still running on punch cards, and you might well call them obsolete, there are plenty of applications that run just fine on an Athalon 3.4GHz dual core, or Intel i3 processor.

    Edit: See also from Wikipedia
    Which is to say, while hardware improves over time, software releases degrade.
    Hence why 99% of computer software companies die, or are consumed by others.

    and yes, it is my interpretation - and it is my humble (albeit wonderfully insightful) opinion - and to quote a truly educated man (my brother) everyone is entitled to their opinion, even if your opinion (IMHO) is quite ignorant (well he used other less flattering words).

    I got my point across; DDO is a supercharged, start of the art, model t ford. one I deeply love and polish daily.
    Last edited by UurlockYgmeov; 10-30-2012 at 11:02 AM.

  13. #593
    Community Member UurlockYgmeov's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkForte View Post
    Tell that to C.
    .

    *chuckle*

    can't it's dead - but can tell it to C#; its great-great-great grandchild.

  14. #594
    Community Member Ghwyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UurlockYgmeov View Post
    Incorrect - a broad interpretation of Moore's Law is that it addresses anything technical - that every 24 months (or so) what was state of the art, cutting edge will be defunct and obsolete.

    Part of this is the foundation that hardware is on the same 2 year (or so) cycle, which by they way is speeding up.

    (the basic straight law from Wiki: Moore's law is the observation that over the history of computing hardware, the number of transistors on integrated circuits doubles approximately every two years)

    Part two of your statement about code: agree - however writing code to the LCD (least common denominator) isn't practical.
    Many companies use very old software and only upgrade when there is a compelling need, not because something new is out. I work for AT&T, an obviously huge tech company, and the main databases are running off programs made in the early 80's, still using the old vx100 interface. In many instances, the only change has been a GUI and the machine it runs on.
    Gwhyn Saige - heroic and epic completionist, loving the EK build
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  15. #595
    Community Member newroticslob's Avatar
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    Default Niagara Falls?

    In this clip, place Mabar Fails in place of Niagara Falls.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yJBh...eature=related
    “Youth ages, immaturity is outgrown, ignorance can be educated, drunkenness sobered, but stupid lasts forever.” — Diogenes

    Dargar, Darnet, Darqin, Darkfecal... Essentially, look for Dar. Go Ghallanda!!

  16. #596
    Community Member PNellesen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phroggiepuddles View Post
    I'm an IT project manager and this drives me nuts!!!! I understand why developers* will never set a timeframe or date... but as I keep saying to the guys I'm managing "I have to put a number of days against this task that you have to perform, it's better you giving me a number than me making one up". So then they give me some totally unrealistic ridiculous number which is completely unacceptable due to the business reasons, so I have to estimate it as good as possible and then the guys get upset with the timeframe they get.
    You work at a certain mega-telco that sort of rhymes with "Pay me and thee", don't you?

    How on earth do you predict how long it's going to take to solve a NEW problem? I learned a VERY long time ago to first go over the business requirements, get a feel for what it might take to do each piece, then multiply that by 2, and often times I was right on the money (usually that estimate was low).

    Programming is NOT the same as building widgets in a factory, no matter how much the business schools and "Six-Sigma black belts" will try and convince you otherwise. Each individual part of a program might solve a well-known problem, and be easy to plug into your application, but it's the interaction of many of these parts that causes the headaches, and that's what leads to the huge overruns and utter failure of so many software projects.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ertay View Post
    While they were at it though, the devs decided to go on an incredible nerfhammer rampage and left nothing in their wake standing...

  17. #597
    Community Member phroggiepuddles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PNellesen View Post
    You work at a certain mega-telco that sort of rhymes with "Pay me and thee", don't you?

    How on earth do you predict how long it's going to take to solve a NEW problem? I learned a VERY long time ago to first go over the business requirements, get a feel for what it might take to do each piece, then multiply that by 2, and often times I was right on the money (usually that estimate was low).

    Programming is NOT the same as building widgets in a factory, no matter how much the business schools and "Six-Sigma black belts" will try and convince you otherwise. Each individual part of a program might solve a well-known problem, and be easy to plug into your application, but it's the interaction of many of these parts that causes the headaches, and that's what leads to the huge overruns and utter failure of so many software projects.
    I completely agree with you, but when you are running a project as a consultant to a client - part of the initial proposals (if not tenders) need to include the schedules... which often is crazy because you've only got a rudimentary understanding of the full depth of the issues involved. Whether it be a 6 week project, or 6-12 month project you've got to justify your project time and cost.

    A big part of estimating is knowing your team, and how they work and estimate. My boss who often did first cut of quotes was shocking, had to time everything by 3 (if lucky)... a senior PHD data architect times it by at least 2 to 3. I've seen work quoted 4 people for 4 days, and still not finished after 6 weeks. There was only one guy who's estimates would be close, and usually only because he was willing to bend backwards to deliver on his estimate. And then I have to try to justify to the client, when the boss said it could be done in 2 months why the updated schedule says 6 months

    So you try and be as accurate as possible, and then you have to modify it all again in order to fit with the time and cost demands of the client and project dependencies. Yes, developers (and end-users) hate you for it, but you won't get the business otherwise. PMs often get hate from all ends, developers because we wear management hats, managers because we're often defending developers to them (you'd be amazed how often that happens but never see it!!!).

    To all you programmers following this thread - work with your PM and be honest with time frames, they also wish you could work in an ideal state but often they have to be the bad guy because of how the real world (and technology) works. I'm not a programmer and don't know the ins and outs, even as much as some people complaining in this thread (I understand what is being talked about, but I can't program) - but I do understand complexity, and a piece of software, especially if it's based from a third party engine, especially if it's propriety software, it's complexity over years really is astounding. I've never seen something so complex go live without hitches, only things I have seen go live without hitches are often living in a bubble with minimal interactions to the larger enterprise applications.

    But on the plus side, computers allow us to have this insane level complexity - and games are a by-product of this.

    PS - I was working for a small consulting firm (recently folded) that dealt with tier 1 companies and specialised in telecommunications (in Australia)
    Last edited by phroggiepuddles; 10-29-2012 at 08:40 PM.

  18. #598
    Community Member Valherus's Avatar
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    Default Ummm... Did you actually read my post?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pherrys View Post
    Complaining is not going to make Mabar come on line any faster. Give the devs a break. It takes alot of skill and talent to make something like this to come together. Once they know when they believe Mabar will be available, they will tell us (hopefully).
    I am not complaining about Mabar not coming online at all. If anything, I am agreeing with your point of view. So are you done preaching to the choir yet?

  19. #599
    Community Member Singular's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rest View Post
    Still glad this isn't active yet. I got about a million and a half xp this weekend on my TR.
    And the LFMs have been strong!

  20. #600
    Community Member Singular's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tolero View Post
    Just another update just in case power issues snipe our ability to post about it...

    So we are still trying to get the hotfix for the festival prepared for this week, though repro of the issue has been difficult, and now the storm is within threat range of us... apparently it has reach. While many of us have been instructed by officials to stay home to avoid an attack of opportunity from Sandy, we are still able to perform work on the hotfix. However...

    I want to prepare folks that depending on how bad things get here, the storm has the potential to interrupt our hotfix attempts. If that were to happen, applying the fix might occur day of (or even after) Halloween. We would like the hotfix to be ready in time for Halloween day. We are monitoring weather conditions and continue to work until one of three things happens: we confirm the fix works and can deploy it, flooding forces evacuation (at this time this is unlikely), or Sandy eats power at our homes (the most pressing concern at the moment). Thank you for your patience, and we apologize for the inconvenience.
    Unreal - your work ethic is impressive!

    Stay safe! Your first priority is to stay safe!

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