Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 81
  1. #21

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sirgog View Post
    Anyone able to post the following:

    - HP of a level 12-ish divine hireling
    - Your best estimate as to the Fortification of a hireling in that level range

    - The same for a level 16 or so one and a level 20+ one
    All hirelings now have a standardized package of defensive bonuses. This includes enhancement bonuses to every ability score, False Life, Protection, Resistance, Physical Resistance Rating, Natural Armor, Proof Against Poison/Disease, Blindness Immunity, Death Ward, and an Insight bonus to AC.

    Of these, the bonuses that can scale do so as the hireling increases in level.

    Melee hirelings use the defensive package equal to their level.
    Rogues/bards use the package two levels lower.
    Clerics/Favored Souls use the package three levels lower.
    Sorcerers/Wizards use the package four levels lower.

    As an example of how the stats scale:
    Light Fortification from levels 1-5, Moderate from levels 6-10, and Heavy on 11+.
    So a melee hireling gets Heavy Fortification at level 11, while a Sorcerer gains it at level 15.

  2. #22
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    99

    Default

    I saw this thread about upgrading hirelings and thought this would be the perfect spot to mention my idea. I love the DDO hireling system and I would love to see it expanded. And since the precedence is already set allowing the collectors edition people to have a permanant gold seal hireling (the panther) why not open it up to everyone?

    I think this game would be greatly energized by allowing players to buy permanent gold seal hirelings in the DDO store.

    I think it would be a great way to turn a mediocre revenue stream (the 1 hour henchmen summons) into a revenue torrent and it would make the game much more interesting to players as well.

    I would never waste my money on a temporary gold seal hireling. And I never bought one in all the years I was a subscriber to DDO.

    But I would happily pay $10 - 20 (30+ for a unique cool looking skin) for a permanent gold seal hireling that was bound to a single character or 30+ for one that is account bound.

    I could imagine buying 2 or 3 of them at various levels while leveling up. And then buying a whole party of 5 when I hit max level. At $10 a piece, that is an extra $70 per character I would happily pay.

    And I bet there are a lot of people who play the game who would never waste money on a temporary gold seal henchman (in all the years I played I never once saw anyone buy one of those and never bought myself one.) but I bet a ton of players would happily fork money over for one that is permanent.

    This would also be in the great tradition of DDO games such as baldurs gate, never winter nights and the temple of elemental evil. In those computer games you could have your pc's party fleshed out with NPC's.

    I would still party a lot, but it would be great if I was partying with one other person and we each were able to summon two extra henchmen to fill out the party. This would be an amazing game changer for DDO and I think a great revenue stream as well. I can't imagine people actually spend much money on a one hour summonable henchmen. I know I would never purchase one.

    If DDO did that I would LOVE this game. I have been speaking to my guild mates in mumble and we are thinking of setting up a chapter and moving over en-mass to DDO if this was implemented.

    This thread came out of a discussion on the general forum:
    http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=392635

  3. #23
    Community Member FranOhmsford's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Staffs, England
    Posts
    9,191

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Feather_of_Sun View Post
    All hirelings now have a standardized package of defensive bonuses. This includes enhancement bonuses to every ability score, False Life, Protection, Resistance, Physical Resistance Rating, Natural Armor, Proof Against Poison/Disease, Blindness Immunity, Death Ward, and an Insight bonus to AC.

    Of these, the bonuses that can scale do so as the hireling increases in level.

    Melee hirelings use the defensive package equal to their level.
    Rogues/bards use the package two levels lower.
    Clerics/Favored Souls use the package three levels lower.
    Sorcerers/Wizards use the package four levels lower.

    As an example of how the stats scale:
    Light Fortification from levels 1-5, Moderate from levels 6-10, and Heavy on 11+.
    So a melee hireling gets Heavy Fortification at level 11, while a Sorcerer gains it at level 15.
    1. Where do the Paladin Hires fit in? Yes I know atm they're even worse than the standard Fighter/Barb Hires.

    2. Seriously Clerics have to wait till Lvl 8 to get Moderate Fort?

    3. Fighter/Barb Hires seem pretty durable to me already - The issue is with DPS and Tanking i.e. the fact that they follow behind you rather than taking the lead when combat is upcoming.

    4. Sorcs and Wizzies according to this are going to be Glass Cannons - I hope you're upping their DPS because otherwise no-one's gonna bother with them.
    EDIT: Example - K'Zurth Q'arab {Lvl 7 Wizard} - Currently has incredibly low HP and spams Enervate - High Aggro/No DPS - Under this new package; Being Lvl 7 he's going to have Light Fort {No help whatsoever} and Lesser False Life {5 Extra HP}.
    I personally feel that the hirelings need the personal touch and fine tuning one on one rather than mass changes that affect all whether or not it actually helps or hinders a certain hireling.
    Some will be much better yes - Others will undoubtedly be far worse than they are now.
    Last edited by FranOhmsford; 10-23-2012 at 05:54 PM.

  4. #24
    The Hatchery danotmano1998's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    The rainy side of earth
    Posts
    4,199

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Feather_of_Sun View Post
    All hirelings now have a standardized package of defensive bonuses. This includes enhancement bonuses to every ability score, False Life, Protection, Resistance, Physical Resistance Rating, Natural Armor, Proof Against Poison/Disease, Blindness Immunity, Death Ward, and an Insight bonus to AC.

    Of these, the bonuses that can scale do so as the hireling increases in level.

    Melee hirelings use the defensive package equal to their level.
    Rogues/bards use the package two levels lower.
    Clerics/Favored Souls use the package three levels lower.
    Sorcerers/Wizards use the package four levels lower.

    As an example of how the stats scale:
    Light Fortification from levels 1-5, Moderate from levels 6-10, and Heavy on 11+.
    So a melee hireling gets Heavy Fortification at level 11, while a Sorcerer gains it at level 15.
    Outstanding!
    Thanks, these are some very good changes indeed. Much appreciated.
    <-Curelite Bottling Company->

    Quote Originally Posted by Chilldude
    Dude, did you see they way that guy just pressed button 1? It was amazing! A display of skill unseen since the 1984 World Games where in the men's room, between events, a man washed his hands with such unbridled majesty that people were claiming the faucet he used was OP.

  5. #25
    The Hatchery sirgog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    17,129

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Feather_of_Sun View Post
    All hirelings now have a standardized package of defensive bonuses. This includes enhancement bonuses to every ability score, False Life, Protection, Resistance, Physical Resistance Rating, Natural Armor, Proof Against Poison/Disease, Blindness Immunity, Death Ward, and an Insight bonus to AC.

    Of these, the bonuses that can scale do so as the hireling increases in level.

    Melee hirelings use the defensive package equal to their level.
    Rogues/bards use the package two levels lower.
    Clerics/Favored Souls use the package three levels lower.
    Sorcerers/Wizards use the package four levels lower.

    As an example of how the stats scale:
    Light Fortification from levels 1-5, Moderate from levels 6-10, and Heavy on 11+.
    So a melee hireling gets Heavy Fortification at level 11, while a Sorcerer gains it at level 15.
    So Heavy Fort at 14 on divines and 13 on Bards (who are IMO as good at healing as the Clr/FvS's). That's OK as long as you avoid Dueragar quests in the 10-13 range (which, ironically, is the levels you'd be most likely to be running those quests at). You'll have Heavy Fort for Gianthold at least (another area where mobs have really nasty crits, or at least the orcs do).

    Does hireling fortification exceed 100% at epic levels? At least the melee hires IMO should have 140-150% to stand up to epic Drow.

    I still feel hireling HP is too low however (unless they have quite good PRR which would surprise me). I could keep a ~170hp level 12 toon alive by moving and jumping in combat, getting out of Acid Rains/Firewalls and drinking a resist potion when hit with Burning Blood. However hirelings do not have the AI for this.


    Finally, hirelings need some form of elemental resistance across the board. Either a spell they can cast, or a static 20 point resist all for level 7+ hirelings, or something. Preferably more elemental resistance than players would have, maybe scaling to 50 or 60 resist all at 24 (as every player will get out of a firewall at least but hirelings do not). I would consider this much more important than an insight AC bonus.
    Last edited by sirgog; 10-23-2012 at 06:28 PM.
    I don't have a zerging problem.

    I'm zerging. That's YOUR problem.

  6. #26
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    NZ
    Posts
    64

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SqueakofDoom View Post
    Hello! We have made some adjustments to Hireling stats and equipment at all levels. This thread is for feedback on these changes.
    Is there anything relating to AI in the pipeline? Especially relating to pets.

    I've found with both my artificer and druid that their pets will stop following and/or assisting in combat or that there is considerable lag before they do. This behaviour is almost guaranteed to be occuring by mission end.

    I raised it on the forums & it seemed like the issue was well known. It's not on the known issues list however (how well known must a known issue be before it is recognised as known?).

  7. #27
    Community Member bbqzor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    1,034

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Feather_of_Sun View Post
    Melee hirelings use the defensive package equal to their level.
    Rogues/bards use the package two levels lower.
    Clerics/Favored Souls use the package three levels lower.
    Sorcerers/Wizards use the package four levels lower.
    Uh... consider this feedback to adjust that scaling:

    Rog/Brd/Clr/Fvs use the package one level lower.
    Sor/Wiz use the package two levels lower.

    By 13 everyone should have heavy fort for about a billion reasons (its never been higher than ml13 historically, gianthold basically requires hvy fort, etc), and there is no reason that clerics, which are basically the 2nd best tanks in terms of gear access after the pal/ftr types, should be penalized worse than rogues here.

    Also, a spread of more than 2 levels (which is what quest xp windows essentially are, base 12 to elite 14 for example) means hirelings are stuck whole entire tiers below the content they are being used in.

    IE, if you want people to ever use a sorc hireling, keeping its defense to something resembling the level its being used in is probably necessary.

    Overall, great changes to hirelings here, I am happy to see them finally being given the attention needed to keep them in line with modern times. But this gear scaling needs to be brought up to par in a jiffy before it goes live and leaves a whole slew of the current problems unaddressed (like the wiz meleeing with his starter gear and imploding still persisting in the above model, etc etc)

    Thanks.

  8. #28
    The Hatchery Scraap's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    2,503

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sirgog View Post
    Finally, hirelings need some form of elemental resistance across the board. Either a spell they can cast, or a static 20 point resist all for level 7+ hirelings, or something. Preferably more elemental resistance than players would have, maybe scaling to 50 or 60 resist all at 24 (as every player will get out of a firewall at least but hirelings do not). I would consider this much more important than an insight AC bonus.
    Absorption, perhaps? That'd also let folks buff the things if they start performing poorly in a specific quest.

  9. #29

  10. #30
    The Hatchery sirgog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    17,129

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bbqzor View Post
    Uh... consider this feedback to adjust that scaling:

    Rog/Brd/Clr/Fvs use the package one level lower.
    Sor/Wiz use the package two levels lower.

    By 13 everyone should have heavy fort for about a billion reasons (its never been higher than ml13 historically, gianthold basically requires hvy fort, etc), and there is no reason that clerics, which are basically the 2nd best tanks in terms of gear access after the pal/ftr types, should be penalized worse than rogues here.

    Also, a spread of more than 2 levels (which is what quest xp windows essentially are, base 12 to elite 14 for example) means hirelings are stuck whole entire tiers below the content they are being used in.

    IE, if you want people to ever use a sorc hireling, keeping its defense to something resembling the level its being used in is probably necessary.

    Overall, great changes to hirelings here, I am happy to see them finally being given the attention needed to keep them in line with modern times. But this gear scaling needs to be brought up to par in a jiffy before it goes live and leaves a whole slew of the current problems unaddressed (like the wiz meleeing with his starter gear and imploding still persisting in the above model, etc etc)

    Thanks.
    When Gianthold was new Heavy Fortification was actually very hard to come by. I remember selling a Heavy Fortification ring for around a million platinum back then because they were so rare. People usually used a mixed defense of a moderate AC alongside Moderate Fortification and heavy use of crowd control.

    It wasn't until Minos Legens that Heavy Fortification was widely available, and it wasn't until Sagrata and Adur-Nauc in Shroud that players feared being one-shot by crits and started to consider 100% fortification as absolutely mandatory. (Thinks back to when you couldn't raise in Shroud part 2 and some poor Sorc got one-shot by the orc...)
    I don't have a zerging problem.

    I'm zerging. That's YOUR problem.

  11. #31
    Community Member bbqzor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    1,034

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sirgog View Post
    When Gianthold was new Heavy Fortification was actually very hard to come by. People usually used a mixed defense of a moderate AC alongside Moderate Fortification and heavy use of crowd control.
    Maybe so, but I'm not really interested in how the game was. I've been playing quite while myself, and it has changed so much that its incredibly difficult to use the game itself as a metric anymore. As you say, back then you could get enough AC to matter, you could also be displaced by someone... the game has just changed enough its too hard to take any one piece of it in isolation anymore. You used to be able to reaver elite at lv14, nowadays that would be a tad more trying...

    Currently, they are going to need heavy fort (specifically, in many cases to overcome the faults of an AI which cannot do things like avoid charging into melee like a human caster could). This extends to other mods as well, meaning equipment that is within 2 levels (ie one adventure band) or suffer the problems of being tiers below. To remain useful, hirelings of all types should be, more or less, on the same page for generic things like that.

    Back then int6 items were rare and ML13. Now they are ml9 and common. Thats no reason for hirelings to suffer a slower int advancement, because of how it was ages ago... and that logic doesnt hold up here either.

    Obviously people are going to have different opinions, and I am holding fast to mine here. I would not want a player in a lv15 quest using lv11 gear, or a level 7 quest using level 3 gear, etc. And it would be nice for the hirelings to avoid that situation as well.

    Currently, they are mainly used as healbots, and occasionally melee dps. I would like to see that change. Summoning a sorc hireling as a defender on a TR to get burst dps, and feel like he won't blow up every 3 feet, would be quite appealing. It would expand the scope and feel of what can be done to accommodate different grouping situations in a positive manner. And having gear entire tiers of questing below where you are is counter to that desire. My 2 cents, and I'm solidly sticking to them.

  12. #32
    Forum Turtle
    2014 DDO Players Council
    TrinityTurtle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Findlay, OH
    Posts
    3,151

    Default

    At this point I'd be happy if they'd just stop running away from me as if I have bubonic plague or something. They still keep running away like mad whether they are on the pink or the blue button, only the buddha looking do nothing button keeps them near. Sometimes.

    I really am not that abusive of the little hire critters, honest turtle!
    Turtel, Turtley Wrath, Tortoisse, Waterssong, Victerr Creed, Utahraptor, Velocaraptor, Minddancer, Loggerhead, Matamata, Sulcata, Ticerratops, Sierrann, Hankx, Shartelhane

    Member of Highlords of Malkier! Help channel, everyone welcome in this channel!

  13. #33
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    83

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bbqzor View Post
    Maybe so, but I'm not really interested in how the game was. I've been playing quite while myself, and it has changed so much that its incredibly difficult to use the game itself as a metric anymore. As you say, back then you could get enough AC to matter, you could also be displaced by someone... the game has just changed enough its too hard to take any one piece of it in isolation anymore. You used to be able to reaver elite at lv14, nowadays that would be a tad more trying...

    Currently, they are going to need heavy fort (specifically, in many cases to overcome the faults of an AI which cannot do things like avoid charging into melee like a human caster could). This extends to other mods as well, meaning equipment that is within 2 levels (ie one adventure band) or suffer the problems of being tiers below. To remain useful, hirelings of all types should be, more or less, on the same page for generic things like that.

    Back then int6 items were rare and ML13. Now they are ml9 and common. Thats no reason for hirelings to suffer a slower int advancement, because of how it was ages ago... and that logic doesnt hold up here either.

    Obviously people are going to have different opinions, and I am holding fast to mine here. I would not want a player in a lv15 quest using lv11 gear, or a level 7 quest using level 3 gear, etc. And it would be nice for the hirelings to avoid that situation as well.

    Currently, they are mainly used as healbots, and occasionally melee dps. I would like to see that change. Summoning a sorc hireling as a defender on a TR to get burst dps, and feel like he won't blow up every 3 feet, would be quite appealing. It would expand the scope and feel of what can be done to accommodate different grouping situations in a positive manner. And having gear entire tiers of questing below where you are is counter to that desire. My 2 cents, and I'm solidly sticking to them.
    You seem to forget not all player have those gear. On my TR 2, i was still using light fort at level 10. If you are using only the stuff you find you may not have all those powerfull stuff like that at those level.

    i remenber when i first start ddo that I was prefering hireling than real healer in a party because of their awesme sp pool and there ability to drink pot. I also rememeber in tangleroot to order hireling to open the door to the shrine after the trap, bacause he was the only to be able to survive to the trap because of the buff again trap hire have. So don't buff hire to hight. Beginner will no longer really on their teamate but on hireling.

    Otherwise the change seem good let mage and cleric hire be less durable than fighter and rogue.

  14. #34
    Hero nibel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Brazil
    Posts
    3,465

    Default

    I just ask one thing from hirelings: Stop drinking SP potions when you still have 2/3 of your SP bar.
    Main: Amossa d'Cannith, Sarlona, casually trying Completionist [<o>]

    Almost-never-played-alts: Arquera - Chapolin - Fabber - Herweg - Mecanico - Tenma

    I want DDO to be a better game. Those are my personal suggestions on: Ammunition, Archmage, Combat Stances, Deities, Dispel Magic, Epic Destiny Map, Fast Healing, Favor, Favored Enemy, Half-elf Enhancements, Monk Stances, Past Life, Potency, Potions, Ranger Spells, Summons, Tiered Loot.

  15. #35
    Community Member btolson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    455

    Default

    I don't think there is a need for fortification to be affected by the class package scaling: all hires should have heavy fort at the same level (11 is fine). Having their HP and PRR and whatnot scale with the class package is enough, no need to triple-dip expected survivability with fort. Beyond heavy fort however, full-BAB hires should see an exceptional bonus above 100% at higher levels of play.

    I will also echo the recommendation for hirelings gaining innate energy resistance. 30/- at level 11 at a minimum (for all hires, no package scale here either), same as the spell. Probably give them 10 inherent at some point too, maybe more for the same reason they get a universal +20 to saves vs traps (10 inherent at L15, 20 at L19, 30 at L23, preserving a 4-level spread for every 10 points?). Survivability for hires is night and day between the characters that can buff hires with resists (my sorcs, pal, etc) and those who cannot (my barb, fighters, etc). This is doubly sad because my chars who cannot buff the hires also cannot buff themselves as easily and rely on hirelings even moreso.

    Also consider granting hires concealment at some point. Blurry and Ghostly is all over equip now, hires expected to go toe-to-toe (or too dumb not to go toe-to-toe) should get themselves some of it. Maybe level 8 for Blurry and 16 for Ghostly.

    Some DR would be good too, for all hires (subject to class package scaling):
    Level 1: 5/magic (Invulnerability gear, never leave home without it)
    Level 5: 5/evil
    Level 10: 5/evil and 5/adamantine
    Level 15: 5/-
    Level 20: 5/- and 10/evil
    Level 25: 10/-

  16. #36
    Community Member Cetus's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    4,747

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Feather_of_Sun View Post
    Hireling equipment at all levels has been updated. They should deal more damage in combat, and be a little more survivable (Within reason- these guys won't be soloing elite quests for you anytime soon).

    Hireling ability scores have been redone. They progress much higher than they did previously.

    Hirelings now have a high Concentration skill. Their spells will be interrupted far less (unless they get hit for a lot of damage in one hit).

    Please feel free to try hirelings out at a variety of level ranges, and let us know how they feel.
    Ever going to open up hireling classes to ALL existing classes? Or are you folks making decent cash off the rogue hirelings in the ddo store? Just a thought.
    Cetus Heroic Lives: #32/32 | Epic Completionist: #20/24 | Iconic Lives: #6/6
    Cetusz - Pure Sorcerer: Heroic Lives: #24/24 | Epic Lives: #6/12 | Iconic Lives: #1/3
    YouTube Channel HERE
    Argonnessen's DEGENERATE MATTER

  17. #37
    The Hatchery Scraap's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    2,503

    Default

    Couple additional queries:

    1- Design wise, do ya'll intend hirelings to be a partner in soloing, or a fallback after waiting for a 6th for 5-10 minutes or so? Makes a difference in how much they should be capable of handling.

    2- Noticed you tweaked Lemming Coyle. Would that type of quest-specific NPC gain it's CR, or quest CR packaging?

  18. #38
    Community Member Saravis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    1,406

    Default

    I only have one request with hires and that is when divine hires are on defensive, they do not do any attacks; no searing light, no shield bashing, no mace swinging. They do nothing but heal and cure ailments.

    This will solve the majority of hire problems.

  19. #39
    Hatchery Founder
    2014 DDO Players Council
    Coldin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    30 Feet from my Soul Stone
    Posts
    5,399

    Default

    Curious about one thing. Did iron defenders and wolf companions get any changes?
    RedShirt / Roleplayer of Giant Slayers, Inc. on Thelanis, formerly Tharashk.
    Member of the DDO Player Council

    Coldin-Artificer; Lynton-Bard; Alydyn-Swashbuckler;
    Takai-
    Monk; Rosein-Paladin; Ellyiana-Cleric; Aurixs-Sorcerer

  20. #40
    Community Member Terebinthia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    1,101

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Scraap View Post
    Absorption, perhaps? That'd also let folks buff the things if they start performing poorly in a specific quest.
    Absorption would be an excellent addition to henchies, yes please!
    Terebinthia, Terebynthia, Tereana, Tereaina, Tereanna, Terebyte, Terechan, Terebinthis
    The Hand of the Black Tower, Khyber.
    Cupcakes welcomed.

Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

This form's session has expired. You need to reload the page.

Reload