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  1. #41
    Community Member delsoboss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nibel View Post
    I just ask one thing from hirelings: Stop drinking SP potions when you still have 2/3 of your SP bar.
    This. A thousand times this.

    This is an issue in longer quests or quests with tough end/optional fights if the player/party is using divine hirleings for healing purposes.
    Quests like elite into the deep with the Demon fight or elite mired in kobolds with Sinvala where you need most of the party healing resources at the end are sabotaged by hirelings drinking problems.

    So far a workaround i use is to set them on passive for the whole quest and command them to heal/buff/whatever when needed and then turn them on defensive to make them chug when i want them to chug but this can lead to pretty bad situations in emergency cases.

    Lower the threshold at which the hires feel the need to drink to 1/3 or 1/4 of their total spell points pool, this way there will be a lot less sp pots wasted when the shrine is around the corner or because they restore more sps than what the hireling used.

  2. #42
    Community Member Dagolar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nibel View Post
    I just ask one thing from hirelings: Stop drinking SP potions when you still have 2/3 of your SP bar.
    I'd ask that they stop aggroing through walls, stop breaking commands to do other things, stop ignoring commands, stop standing still in the middle of fights- not that it isn't somewhat amusing to watch them charge up to an enemy and then just stand there, et al.

    But whatever we can get, I suppose.

    Quote Originally Posted by elvorix View Post
    I think this game would be greatly energized by allowing players to buy permanent gold seal hirelings in the DDO store.

    This thread came out of a discussion on the general forum:
    http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=392635
    While I can't attest to how well it would or would not sell, your impressions of how people view Gold Seal hirelings (loathe to buy as is, but likely willing to spend 20x for permanent versions, perhaps to multiple purchases) matches the impressions I've gotten, as well as my own stance on the matter.
    So far, the only Gold Seals I've used came free out of lotteries.
    Quote Originally Posted by Xeraphim View Post
    Fly? That would break every quest in the game. You would see folks falling from the sky in Korthos and dying. It would be a rain of newbs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dandonk View Post
    Yeah. It's not "we nuked the city from orbit", it's "the city experienced a brief population drop". Check.

  3. #43
    Community Member btolson's Avatar
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    A threshold of 10% sp for potion quaffing should be sufficient in all but perhaps the lowest-level cases (a condition of < 10% of max sp or < 25 points should work). Hirelings don't use maximize or any other metamagics, so 10% should always guarantee they can cast any spell available to them (again, except maybe in the case of very low-level, low-sp hires, like bards, which the fallback conditional of < 25 points will cover).

  4. #44

  5. #45
    Community Member Vellrad's Avatar
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    The only thing I care is adding heroic rogue hirelings to vendors.

    Is that planned?

  6. #46
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    I'm very happy to see hirelings get some love - they're a unite and important part of my DDO experience.

    I like almost all of the suggestions here. I'm on a limited budget and have to choose my hireling purchases carefully, but since I mostly (or often) solo due to life distractions I rely on hirelings for game enjoyment.

    I can't afford $20/hireling but something that would allow me to keep gold seal hirelings permanently would really add a fun dimension to the game, and only making the purchasing decision rarely would stop the constant feeling that I have to spend spend spend and the budget anxiety that goes with it and trying to decide if i really need that hireling, then getting along without it and limiting my enjoyment.

    Hirelings on Live:

    - Casters -need- quicken!

    - Do hirelings now have inherent resist fire/acid/elec/cold/etc? I can then spend more time running my alt barb, etc. and not having the hassle....

    - Does it make sense to give us, the player a way to adjust how offensive a hireling is SP-wise (I.e. from Nuke Everything to super-conservative.) Different situations call for different approaches.

    - I agree that they use their SP pots too quick, but I wouldn't want to wait till they get all the way to the bottom - that's like waiting to cure me until I'm too low on HP, in some situations that just means death.

    - The hireling arcanes I have tried have so little HP and I am not clear how to buff them properly to keep them alive, so I rarely take them, they seem to go poof fast and with a few exceptions don't seem to deal enough DpS to be worth it. Maybe it's my game knowledge but that's my perception.

    - When I need a res from an FVS hireling (or cleric), I need it right now, top priority.

    - I miss quantity discounts in the store. I still have a few left from some of the sales from the old days (40% and 50%) since I used to like them so much.

    - I'd love to be able to carry a second plat-bought hireling. I know everyone will immediately think that means I'll buy less gold seal contracts, but is that really true?

  7. #47

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    While we appreciate how passionate all of you are about hirelings, we'd appreciate if you could keep theorycrafting and speculation out of this thread.

    The purpose of this thread is to gather details on how playing with hirelings feels currently on Lamannia.

    To do so, please include the following with your post:
    • The name, class, and level of the hireling you used.
    • Your level.
    • The quest you ran.
    • The difficulty that quest was set to.
    • How you felt the hireling performed in that content.


    Feedback presented without that information will not be taken into account. Thanks.

  8. #48
    Community Member Schmoe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feather_of_Sun View Post
    While we appreciate how passionate all of you are about hirelings, we'd appreciate if you could keep theorycrafting and speculation out of this thread.

    The purpose of this thread is to gather details on how playing with hirelings feels currently on Lamannia.

    To do so, please include the following with your post:
    • The name, class, and level of the hireling you used.
    • Your level.
    • The quest you ran.
    • The difficulty that quest was set to.
    • How you felt the hireling performed in that content.


    Feedback presented without that information will not be taken into account. Thanks.
    So feedback like "hireling X on Lammania really should have Quicken" is going to be ignored? That seems rather limiting.
    "And you ate an apple, and I ate a pear,
    From a dozen of each we had bought somewhere;
    And the sky went wan, and the wind came cold,
    And the sun rose dripping, a bucketful of gold. " - Millay

  9. #49
    Community Member 9Crows's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feather_of_Sun View Post
    While we appreciate how passionate all of you are about hirelings, we'd appreciate if you could keep theorycrafting and speculation out of this thread.

    The purpose of this thread is to gather details on how playing with hirelings feels currently on Lamannia.

    To do so, please include the following with your post:
    • The name, class, and level of the hireling you used.
    • Your level.
    • The quest you ran.
    • The difficulty that quest was set to.
    • How you felt the hireling performed in that content.


    Feedback presented without that information will not be taken into account. Thanks.



    Quote Originally Posted by Schmoe View Post
    So feedback like "hireling X on Lammania really should have Quicken" is going to be ignored? That seems rather limiting.

    think they just want the information organized so they can idenify problems more effiently and collate data better.

    the last data request on F.o.S's list would be where you would put lack of x made hire y function poorly in z quest
    Last edited by 9Crows; 10-24-2012 at 09:52 AM.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schmoe View Post
    So feedback like "hireling X on Lammania really should have Quicken" is going to be ignored? That seems rather limiting.
    If you actually run a quest with the hireling and give feedback specifically stating an example where having quicken would have improved the hirelings performance you would meet the criteria feather laid out.

  11. #51
    Community Member jakeelala's Avatar
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    Could you please consider adding some buffs to homunculus if you're buffing hirelings? They're useless after level 10 no matter what docent and collar you put on them.

  12. #52
    Hero Gkar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feather_of_Sun View Post
    All hirelings now have a standardized package of defensive bonuses. This includes enhancement bonuses to every ability score, False Life, Protection, Resistance, Physical Resistance Rating, Natural Armor, Proof Against Poison/Disease, Blindness Immunity, Death Ward, and an Insight bonus to AC.

    Of these, the bonuses that can scale do so as the hireling increases in level.

    Melee hirelings use the defensive package equal to their level.
    Rogues/bards use the package two levels lower.
    Clerics/Favored Souls use the package three levels lower.
    Sorcerers/Wizards use the package four levels lower.

    As an example of how the stats scale:
    Light Fortification from levels 1-5, Moderate from levels 6-10, and Heavy on 11+.
    So a melee hireling gets Heavy Fortification at level 11, while a Sorcerer gains it at level 15.
    You know that's backwards of what it needs right? If you have less HP you are more likely to look for fort and hp items

  13. #53
    Community Member Schmoe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gkar View Post
    You know that's backwards of what it needs right? If you have less HP you are more likely to look for fort and hp items
    This feedback will be ignored.
    "And you ate an apple, and I ate a pear,
    From a dozen of each we had bought somewhere;
    And the sky went wan, and the wind came cold,
    And the sun rose dripping, a bucketful of gold. " - Millay

  14. #54
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    I am one of several who apparently misunderstood the nature of the thread. My apologies. I wish you the best of luck in your work.

    Quote Originally Posted by Feather_of_Sun View Post
    While we appreciate how passionate all of you are about hirelings, we'd appreciate if you could keep theorycrafting and speculation out of this thread.

    The purpose of this thread is to gather details on how playing with hirelings feels currently on Lamannia.

    To do so, please include the following with your post:
    • The name, class, and level of the hireling you used.
    • Your level.
    • The quest you ran.
    • The difficulty that quest was set to.
    • How you felt the hireling performed in that content.


    Feedback presented without that information will not be taken into account. Thanks.

  15. #55
    The Hatchery Scraap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feather_of_Sun View Post
    While we appreciate how passionate all of you are about hirelings, we'd appreciate if you could keep theorycrafting and speculation out of this thread.

    The purpose of this thread is to gather details on how playing with hirelings feels currently on Lamannia.

    To do so, please include the following with your post:
    • The name, class, and level of the hireling you used.
    • Your level.
    • The quest you ran.
    • The difficulty that quest was set to.
    • How you felt the hireling performed in that content.


    Feedback presented without that information will not be taken into account. Thanks.
    Ok, I'll bite. Took the one toon I had that might consider the things more than walking HP/SP pots stored at the door, and gave it an acid test.

    Albus, l20 fvs.

    Gaarddog-L20 pure SD. Forged, DR specced. (So a gimp rolled up explicitly to see how bad it was, and how much twinking it'd take to overcome the handicaps.)

    Sins Of Attrition.

    Elite.

    Between Albus on agressive, a vampiric with cleave, a ring of master artifice, a GS regen item, and Levik's defender, without drinking a single pot, I pretty much couldn't die till Albus ran out of SP. he did so during the trash fight right after the table boss.

    Honestly not sure that thing should have lasted that long on that difficulty.

  16. #56
    Community Member FranOhmsford's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scraap View Post
    Ok, I'll bite. Took the one toon I had that might consider the things more than walking HP/SP pots stored at the door, and gave it an acid test.

    Albus, l20 fvs.

    Gaarddog-L20 pure SD. Forged, DR specced. (So a gimp rolled up explicitly to see how bad it was, and how much twinking it'd take to overcome the handicaps.)

    Sins Of Attrition.

    Elite.

    Between Albus on agressive, a vampiric with cleave, a ring of master artifice, a GS regen item, and Levik's defender, without drinking a single pot, I pretty much couldn't die till Albus ran out of SP. he did so during the trash fight right after the table boss.

    Honestly not sure that thing should have lasted that long on that difficulty.
    This is the propblem in a nutshell:

    Those People on lamannia and on the Forums that the Devs are asking for views from are Elite Players - Not Elitists - Elite Players.

    The Gimp bit is rubbish - Your gear more than made up for the WF issues as Melee and Albus is a Lvl 20 FavSoul - He should keep you healed - It's his job!

    In my opinion the devs taking advice on hirelings from people who'd never even touch a hireling isn't exactly the way forward.

    The truth will come out when these changes go live and the masses of us lesser player and newbies get our hands on the revamped Hirelings.

    I don't mean to sound combative - I apologise if anything I've said came across the wrong way - I am not having a go at you personally.

  17. #57
    Community Member Spartywinz's Avatar
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    I don't group with players post level 11 that don't have heavy fort, why would I test a hireling you just told me doesn't have heavy fort until higher levels.

  18. #58
    The Hatchery SisAmethyst's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feather_of_Sun View Post
    The purpose of this thread is to gather details on how playing with hirelings feels currently on Lamannia.

    Hireling equipment at all levels has been updated. They should deal more damage in combat, and be a little more survivable (Within reason- these guys won't be soloing elite quests for you anytime soon).

    Hireling ability scores have been redone. They progress much higher than they did previously.

    Hirelings now have a high Concentration skill. Their spells will be interrupted far less (unless they get hit for a lot of damage in one hit).

    To provide feedback, please include the following with your post:
    • The name, class, and level of the hireling you used.
    • Your level.
    • The quest you ran.
    • The difficulty that quest was set to.
    • How you felt the hireling performed in that content.


    Feedback presented without that information will not be taken into account. Thanks.
    I hadn't much issues with the stats of Hirelings except maybe the lack of Concentration on casters and I welcome this change. However as some others already stated, don't buff them too much to the degree that players prefer all of the time to zerg with a hireling through a quest instead of creating or joining a PUG.

    Anyway, as said my main issue with hirelings aren't the stats but how they act. The Rogue hireling is always following 10 feet behind me and I actually have to stand directly infront of the trap box so that he can disarm it. That is especially painful in quests where the trap box is inside or behind the trap (e.g. Wiz-King, Lord of Dust). Even worse so if there is a lever close to the trap box, they sometimes pull that one instead to disarm, which may be fatal (e.g. The Claw of Vulkoor).

    On the other hand most of the Clerics have the mindset of a Barbarian. Reverse to the Rogue they follow you directly at feet and may get cleaved all the time or even worse run off ahead to agro more monsters. If a trap is close they will run through it, to activate a bulk of mobs behind that hasn't noticed you yet, and then on the way back stand inside of the trap with the finger in the nose claiming they would need a heal soon.

    What some hirelings understand under "passive mode" or "don't move" doesn't even come close to what I have in mind. Better stats and higher protection may prevent sudden death, but the major problem of the AI isn't solved by it. But I will try to give them a test drive and report back later...
    * We have collectable bags, hell even hireling folders, but can I have that 6-pack for my potions please?
    * Having already a past life on the dieng EU servers, I rerolled here and started from scratch as I like the game and the community, so lets see what awaits me here

  19. #59
    The Hatchery Scraap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FranOhmsford View Post
    This is the propblem in a nutshell:

    Those People on lamannia and on the Forums that the Devs are asking for views from are Elite Players - Not Elitists - Elite Players.

    The Gimp bit is rubbish - Your gear more than made up for the WF issues as Melee and Albus is a Lvl 20 FavSoul - He should keep you healed - It's his job!

    In my opinion the devs taking advice on hirelings from people who'd never even touch a hireling isn't exactly the way forward.

    The truth will come out when these changes go live and the masses of us lesser player and newbies get our hands on the revamped Hirelings.

    I don't mean to sound combative - I apologise if anything I've said came across the wrong way - I am not having a go at you personally.
    No apologies necessary, and it is in fact the single biggest reason I explicitly asked what niche the devs feel the hirelings should fill regarding expected scaling impact, and whether the intent was for them to be an asset in situations weighted heavily in our favor due to scaling, or against. If the intent is to replace the healing aspect of a divine in a 6 party quest vs grabbing one for soloing, they may be about right, but I do feel that the scaling impact distorts their performance. (Also why I suggested absorption, since that scales no matter the party size.)

    As to ground gear vs stopping over to grab the henchie, I'd honestly say that the 1k-ish plat was the better investment given that scenario, and that just feels wrong, on several levels.

    As to never touching a hireling beyond a lever-puller, area guardian (say, auto-healing kobolds, or the defense missions, or two rooms back for spot-healing), or secondary shrine, that comes from years of them putting themselves in positions where they're more of an active detriment than an asset, so I've simply come to cope with the issues, and hiding that I do so would distort the perception of the feedback.
    Last edited by Scraap; 10-24-2012 at 02:20 PM.

  20. #60
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    The name, class, and level of the hireling you used. - all levels all the clerics
    Your level. - 1-20 I solo when i don't like the lfms that are up
    The quest you ran.-tear of dhakaan elite , ritual sacrifice elite - the portal opens epic hard
    The difficulty that quest was set to.-hards/normal/elite
    How you felt the hireling performed in that content.
    I want 2 changes to healing hirelings
    1. spell slot 1-Freedom of Movement / spell slot 2. Deathward / spell slot 3. Curative (serious/heal/heal mass)/ spell slot 4. Raise dead

    change #2
    apply quicken to mass heal


    if they are too low to have the spells named then do whatever
    AI can be managed most of the time to avoid running off
    Most divines in the game carry FoM and deathward because they are the 2 most important buffs divines can get (imo) so please give them to hirelings

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