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  1. #1
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    Default Cannith Challenges, what bunk.

    Brace yourself, angry letter time.

    Dear Turbine, I spent 1500 points on this nonsense for what?

    The xp is poor. fine, there's plenty of xp in the game. But that's not an excuse, it simply is.

    The rewards are arbitrary, with certain challenges being more rewarding for no apparent reason, while others are more difficult by far, with far less reward. This is nonsense, rewards should be scaled in terms of difficulty, but each challenge should be weighted for duration and ability to solo; challenges that are short and soloable should not reward better than challenges that are long and require a group! This is offensive!

    The maps are huge empty voids. I *love* the sensation of slowly running from place to place, particularly when staring at a timer. No, wait, i loathe that sensation, its not fun at all.

    The inability to trade resource x for resource y is ridiculous. Are they not valuable? Is House Cannith not ostensibly engaged in weapons trade, which they intend to make a profit in? Why this cumbersome and aggravating transaction system with arbitrary values in place for various resources? Why are some resources completely unable to be exchanged for another, and others require multiple transactions, penalizing the player by up to 75% of the earned tokens - painfully, boringly, ploddingly, agonizingly earned tokens - for no apparent reason? This is illogical to the point of ridiculousness.

    Each resource should be valued on its own merits, and tradeable for others, in some form.

    Penalizing the player by 50% or 75% of the traded materials is gouging, and utterly ridiculous.

    The rewards are horribly skewed, and need to be balanced in terms of time invested and overall difficulty.

    The exp is also horrible, and needs to be balanced in terms of time invested.


    I take offense at paying for content that's terrible. This needs to be fixed, asap.

  2. #2
    Hatchery Hero Sonos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drakkos137 View Post
    Brace yourself, angry letter time.

    Dear Turbine, I spent 1500 points on this nonsense for what?

    The xp is poor. fine, there's plenty of xp in the game. But that's not an excuse, it simply is.

    The rewards are arbitrary, with certain challenges being more rewarding for no apparent reason, while others are more difficult by far, with far less reward. This is nonsense, rewards should be scaled in terms of difficulty, but each challenge should be weighted for duration and ability to solo; challenges that are short and soloable should not reward better than challenges that are long and require a group! This is offensive!

    The maps are huge empty voids. I *love* the sensation of slowly running from place to place, particularly when staring at a timer. No, wait, i loathe that sensation, its not fun at all.

    The inability to trade resource x for resource y is ridiculous. Are they not valuable? Is House Cannith not ostensibly engaged in weapons trade, which they intend to make a profit in? Why this cumbersome and aggravating transaction system with arbitrary values in place for various resources? Why are some resources completely unable to be exchanged for another, and others require multiple transactions, penalizing the player by up to 75% of the earned tokens - painfully, boringly, ploddingly, agonizingly earned tokens - for no apparent reason? This is illogical to the point of ridiculousness.

    Each resource should be valued on its own merits, and tradeable for others, in some form.

    Penalizing the player by 50% or 75% of the traded materials is gouging, and utterly ridiculous.

    The rewards are horribly skewed, and need to be balanced in terms of time invested and overall difficulty.

    The exp is also horrible, and needs to be balanced in terms of time invested.


    I take offense at paying for content that's terrible. This needs to be fixed, asap.
    I thought that they gave free daily tokens so that you could try them before you buy them?

  3. #3
    Community Member Brennie's Avatar
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    On the upside, almost every single item from that pack is really good in some fashion or another

    But yes, you have hit on many of the valid reasons why Cannith Challenges are, shall we say, an imperfect experiment in alternate questing mechanics. There are steps that Turbine COULD take to improve them, however, such as:

    • Allow trading of epic ingredients for their nonepic counterparts (At no less than 1:1 ratio)

    • Increase the max level for all heroic challenges to 20, and do not penalize overlevel players in challenges that have no epic equivalent.


    • Likewise, drop the minimum level on most challenges down to 8 or 10. Being unable to get ingredients you want on an alt, or that you will need next level just because you are in the wrong level range totally stinks.


    • Normalize ingredient payouts, so that a challenge that takes X time on average gives out Y ingredients on average, regardless of what challenge that is. Rushmore and Kobold Island are particularly egregious in horribel time to ingredient ratio.


    • Tweak quests to be more solo friendly to a wider variety of players. For instance, add new "turrets" to kobold island, such as a tank turret (which aggros enemies, does medium damage and is difficulty to kill) for healer and squishy DPSes, add a Healer turret (Which heals and perhaps buffs friendlies/debuffs or CC enemies) for tanks and non-self sufficient DPSes, and a DPS turret (That, y'know... hurts things) for self sufficient characters who want extra support. In this way, any group of 4 people could hold the various extractors.


    • Make mournlode armor not suck.


    • Revisit some of the lower level version of things, which are in many cases much worse than randomrolled or easily crafted items.


    • And, of course, revisit XP and ingredient payouts. Rather than trying to find a single universal XP theory, just go in and find one that works for each individual challenge. Perhaps even scrap the idea of the Star XP multiplier, and make XP simply a function of score (eg. 500xp + 1/2 per point of score up to 400, 1/3 score up to 800 and 1/4 score for each point past 800. Note these are entirely arbitrary numbers).

  4. #4
    Community Member Therrias's Avatar
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    People are still complaining about this? Just grind out your epic tokens and move along.

  5. #5
    Community Member wax_on_wax_off's Avatar
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    No idea why anyone would buy this pack. I have 30-40 bound tokens on each of my 4 characters and another 50 odd unbound in a TR bank should I ever run out. I have every item out of here that I currently want with the only obstacle to more/upgraded gear being the time that I want to invest.

    Yes, the xp is broken and needs to be fixed but all of the gear in my experience is accessible with just a moderate amount of work with great rewards.

    Entire builds aren't possible without access to this gear, I really do love it for the versatility and awesomeness that it gives.
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  6. #6
    Founder Chaos000's Avatar
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    This was one of the reasons that I quit the game after Artificer came out.

    When I do the Cannith Challenges it FEELS like a waste of time. On a failed challenge (as some of it is entirely based on luck) I end up feeling frustrated and angry at the whole ordeal.

    As a sidenote: If a person is XP capped, (meaning no longer getting any XP due to being lvl 25 and capped on their ED) this should translate into more ingredients to compensate for the time spent.

    Yes the items gained from the turn-in can be rewarding but where is the fun element that should be inherent to all these challenges to make it an enjoyable experience?
    Daishado

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  7. #7
    Community Member donfilibuster's Avatar
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    Apparently they were too high xp per minute, but that is only true of the people that can actually run them fast.
    Sure the name of the pack is "challenges", but for a pricy pack one might expect it to be helpful for leveling.

  8. #8
    Community Member brian14's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drakkos137 View Post
    The inability to trade resource x for resource y is ridiculous.
    Actually, you CAN trade resources. Here is how:

    http://ddowiki.com/page/Cannith_Chal...Resource_trade

    Agree completely that the pack is not worth anything close to 1500 TP. When my toon is between quests and I have a few minutes, I pop into House Cannith and pick up daily token. All of my toons have adequate supply for when I feel like running challenges. Mostly I use them to keep my TR in xp potions, and over last two weeks my only level 20 collected some Epic Tokens.
    Last edited by brian14; 10-23-2012 at 08:42 AM.
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  9. #9
    Community Member brian14's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaos000 View Post
    Yes the items gained from the turn-in can be rewarding but where is the fun element that should be inherent to all these challenges to make it an enjoyable experience?
    I enjoy Kobold Chaos (level 4-15) and Dragon Hoard: Labor Shortage (level 14-25). Picture Portals can be enjoyable if someone who really knows what they are doing (i.e. not me) is leading the party. Since I turn in resources only for xp potions and dungeon tokens, I do not need to run anything else.
    Quote Originally Posted by wax_on_wax_off View Post
    Entire builds aren't possible without access to this gear.
    Really? How?
    "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder."

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  10. #10
    Community Member DaSawks's Avatar
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    I have to disagree with the OP. I have a blast every time I do a Challange. The gear is great. The exp is okay. The free tokens make it...well...free. I would advise everyone to get in there and play. No issues on my part.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    No, although VIP players do get free Gold rolls on Daily Dice, so that might fit into your criteria. But when it comes to chest drops, chain rewards, general Daily Dice rolls (what number you get), etc., VIP does not confer additional "luck".

  11. #11
    Community Member grayham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaSawks View Post
    I have to disagree with the OP. I have a blast every time I do a Challange. The gear is great. The exp is okay. The free tokens make it...well...free. I would advise everyone to get in there and play. No issues on my part.
    Yep same here. If you're premium then try-before-you-buy. The items are good, the extra planar mining ones can be good fun and they are something different. Sorry you've had a bad experience OP. Did you by perchance do one of the kobold island ones first? Because, yeah, they aren't much fun. Particularly if you're soloing.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by wax_on_wax_off View Post
    No idea why anyone would buy this pack. I have 30-40 bound tokens on each of my 4 characters and another 50 odd unbound in a TR bank should I ever run out. I have every item out of here that I currently want with the only obstacle to more/upgraded gear being the time that I want to invest.

    Yes, the xp is broken and needs to be fixed but all of the gear in my experience is accessible with just a moderate amount of work with great rewards.

    Entire builds aren't possible without access to this gear, I really do love it for the versatility and awesomeness that it gives.
    I bought it when it was last on sale, so I paid about (I want to say) 1100 ish TP for it. I also have no plans to buy Artificer since I can earn if with the packs I paid cash for. I sort of roll that cost into the two Cannith favor packs.

    I actually enjoy the challenges, though I have noticed (especially in Eveningstar) the strange disparity in the rewards. For example Sunset Ritual seems to give far more rewards compared to the Ring of Fire challenge for the same amount of effort. The same situations happen in the Cannith challenges. I'm sure I can go through and master what gets you the highest rewards, but I just haven't done that yet.

    At least some of the turn ins for Cannith are useful:

    Miscellaneous Rewards

    Consumables


    • Any of 150 non-epic ingredient - Minor Slayer Count Boost Potion
    • Any of 150 non-epic ingredient - Minor Experience Elixir (As of Update 13.1 this gives the 5% experience bonus stated in the item description)
    • Any of 150 non-epic ingredient - Minor Guild Renown Elixir
    • Any of 150 non-epic ingredient - Minor Crafting Experience Elixir
    • Any of 300 Obsidian Arrowheads/Antique Coins/Crude Talismans/Mephit Wings - Small Crafting Satchel (a one time amount of Cannith Crafting Essences)
    • Any of 300 Jade Scorpions/Illuminated Manuscripts/Necromantic Charms/Enchanted Armor Fragments - Medium Crafting Satchel
    • Any of 300 Crystallized Magma Shards/Jeweled Goblets/Orthon Metal Scraps/Arcanaloth Scrolls - Large Crafting Satchel
    • Various heal/spell buff potions (50-150 non-epic ingredients each stack)

    Epic Tokens


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  13. #13
    Community Member DaSawks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grayham View Post
    Yep same here. If you're premium then try-before-you-buy. The items are good, the extra planar mining ones can be good fun and they are something different. Sorry you've had a bad experience OP. Did you by perchance do one of the kobold island ones first? Because, yeah, they aren't much fun. Particularly if you're soloing.
    Kolbold Island is the hardest of the bunch to solo.

    I absolutely love Picture Portals and Moving Targets. Took a few runs to learn the map but now it is a breeze to solo. I get a heart rush each and every time I play these. The timer and time adding mechanic is awesome.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    No, although VIP players do get free Gold rolls on Daily Dice, so that might fit into your criteria. But when it comes to chest drops, chain rewards, general Daily Dice rolls (what number you get), etc., VIP does not confer additional "luck".

  14. #14
    Community Member brian14's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaSawks View Post
    Kolbold Island is the hardest of the bunch to solo.

    I absolutely love Picture Portals and Moving Targets. Took a few runs to learn the map but now it is a breeze to solo. I get a heart rush each and every time I play these. The timer and time adding mechanic is awesome.
    YMMV. As I said, I really like Kobold Island -- especially Kobold Chaos, -- and find Dr. Rushmore's Mansion incredibly frustrating unless someone else is leading.

    Of course, when soloing Kobold Island I never even tried to upgrade more than one Large Extractor.
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  15. #15
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    I have fun with the challengess. Screw kobold islands that require you to make store purchases and only give you 6 seconds of mistake time in order to gold star though. Sideways, with something angular and big.

    Most of my characters are wearing at least 1 House C challenge item and some wear up to 5. With that said and the fun I find (most of) the challenges to be, there is no way I'd pay what they are asking for the pack.

    The Eveningstar challenges got the price about right, but screwed it with BTC materials and loot lottery, might as well be clicking on a chest that had an "item type" dial on it rewards. I had fun in the one I've done there, Defenseless, but have only done it maybe 5 times or so. Have not entered the others.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by brian14 View Post
    Actually, you CAN trade resources. Here is how:

    [url]http://ddowiki.com/page/Cannith_Challenge_reward_items/Resource_trade[/url
    But that's limited. A to B to C to (D or E) to A. F to G to H to (I or J) to F. If you can get A really well but can't get D, you're looking at a 12.5% rate. You need 8 times as much A as you want D. And if you want H but are a little too low... well, you're hosed. And alts aren't always an option.

    What the OP is saying is A to (B or C or D or E or F or G or...) Or even A to (B or C or D or E) at one rate of exchange, and (F or G or H or I or J) at another RoE. Which i support. I'd LOVE my lowbie monk to be able to run stuff for my high-level mechanic in a static group on an alternate server, where I don't want to out-level the rest of the group. On the other hand, I'd also love to run my high-level Tempest through to get stuff for my lowbie wizard, on my main server.

    I think a simple 2:1 ratio between anything in the same "tier" wouldn't be OP. I wouldn't think a 3:1 or 4:1 between tiers would be OP, either. I can't do Rushmore. Simply can't. I always fail to get the right crest, or I find a boss and the spammed air eles keep me on the ground and against the wall and I can't get to the boss.

    Quote Originally Posted by brian14 View Post
    YMMV. As I said, I really like Kobold Island -- especially Kobold Chaos, -- and find Dr. Rushmore's Mansion incredibly frustrating unless someone else is leading.

    Of course, when soloing Kobold Island I never even tried to upgrade more than one Large Extractor.
    I agree with everything here to the point where I had to check to make sure I hadn't said it myself *g* Extraplanar Palace I can generally solo, and most of Lava Caves (the exception being Colossal Crystals). Unfortunately, seems like everything I look at crafting requires 2-3 ings from Colossal Crystals or Rushmore...
    Last edited by LrdSlvrhnd; 10-23-2012 at 06:41 PM.
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  17. #17
    Founder Chaos000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brian14 View Post
    I enjoy Kobold Chaos (level 4-15) and Dragon Hoard: Labor Shortage (level 14-25). Picture Portals can be enjoyable if someone who really knows what they are doing (i.e. not me) is leading the party. Since I turn in resources only for xp potions and dungeon tokens, I do not need to run anything else.
    ... and colossal crystals? or any of the kobold island ones with the extractors? They really need to up the rate of return for challenges that require a lot more effort to complete successfully.

    If the group is entirely built up of people that all have soloed the challenge before, it makes for a much more successful and enjoyable run. However, the learning curve makes it so it's not worth opening up the group to just anybody.
    Daishado

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  18. #18
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    I find colossal to be one of the best ingredients/time spent ones there o.O.

    Honestly, once you get familiar enough with the maps/develop personal methods that work for you, most of them give very nice reward amounts.

    Except kobold island. #(*$&#ing kobold island.
    Cannith, Slicing Blow. Vilenna (18/1/1 Clonkard), Marvala (20 monk), Phrenia (19/1 rogue/fighter), Malchara (12/6/2 AA), Denaria (18/2 ...wonk?)

  19. #19
    Community Member Mastikator's Avatar
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    Some (Rushmore) are just neigh impossible for certain builds, no matter how familiar you are
    That which does not kill you gives you experience points.

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  20. #20

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    There is some nifty equipment to be had from the cannith challenges. The T3 ML16 caster gear with masterful craftsmanship is really good for TRs. But I don't think that is enough reason to nerf the xp to the point that they aren't worth doing anymore.

    I already have the gear from when they were still decent xp. Now I try to do them each life, but after doing 2 or 3 of them, I see how bad the xp is and just go back to doing things that are worth my time (Monastery, EtK, etc).

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