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  1. #1
    Community Member Cetus's Avatar
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    Default So we defeat a god...and THF's get rewards that stink

    Honestly devs, are you folks content with the reward system you've installed in this raid? The last adventure pack that featured a raid was the cannith pack that was released late august/early september last year. The gear in that raid was absolutely useless for two handers, not bad for TWF'ers, amazing for handwrap users, and situationally nice for casters.

    Almost a year later, we get our next raid in DDO's first ever expansion. What do we receive as our reward? Some pretty nice TWF alternatives, and absolutely terrible THF options. Khopeshes, greatswords, and handwraps are excluded completely, divines and casters get shafted. Then, handwraps make their way into the raid - which are decent, but not absolutely game breaking.

    The major problem that I have with how the developers are handling this is as follows: No developer, none, zero, zilch, have EVER responded to this simple question: Why are there no greatswords or khopeshes in this expansion?

    Still...to this day, 4 months later, no developer stated their position on this, and since this thread concerns two handed weapons - where are the greatswords?

    Furthermore, and again, this is mainly regarding THF weapons, why is the falchion a x2 weapon? Do you folks not realize that nobody wants this thing other than for flavor? Its not a serious weapon, and it never will be. Look at the epic xuum - that weapon, released years and years ago, is better than the Breach simply because of that multiplier. Look at the cleaver, that axe is a joke because the threat range did not receive the same treatment as the drow greataxe did. Two handers have crappy options, and have been neglected entirely in this expansion, aside from the drow axe - which still loses to the esos due to DR situations.
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  2. #2
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    handwarps amazings for monks?^^ antipode?
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  3. #3
    Community Member Cetus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarnind View Post
    handwarps amazings for monks?^^ antipode?
    When LOB was released, the alchemical handwraps were amazing for monks.
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  4. #4
    Community Member lugoman's Avatar
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    The problem is that the eSoS was so over powered for it's time that anything better than that will make content trivial. They are stuck with making weapons that are only situationally better than the eSoS.

  5. #5
    Community Member Shade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lugoman View Post
    The problem is that the eSoS was so over powered for it's time that anything better than that will make content trivial. They are stuck with making weapons that are only situationally better than the eSoS.
    Neither of the two handers are situationally better then esos. Inferior in every realistic scenario possible.

    Balizarde, a one hander is a far superior weapon to the ESoS, so your logically is really flawed. It's not overpowered either. If they simply let us wield 1handers in two hands as per pnp, every THF player would like this raid a lot more, tho theyd still ignore the actaul two handers.

  6. #6
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    There has been enough inflation in gear and ED's all around(yes some alot more then others)
    At this point it'd be beter for the game to slow down the overpowered-easytoget train.

    I think the dev's know what they are doing and acting like we have the right to new beter gear every update is naive, especially when the type of weapon your asking for is already overused due to the fact it is slightly beter then the rest.

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  8. #8
    Community Member Cetus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ripperj View Post
    There has been enough inflation in gear and ED's all around(yes some alot more then others)
    At this point it'd be beter for the game to slow down the overpowered-easytoget train.

    I think the dev's know what they are doing and acting like we have the right to new beter gear every update is naive, especially when the type of weapon your asking for is already overused due to the fact it is slightly beter then the rest.
    So you enjoy using the same universal weapon for the last 3 years? This isn't asking for better gear every update...this is asking for a new weapon in a time frame that is almost consistent with completion of medical school. Its rediculous.
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  9. #9
    The Hatchery MRMechMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
    It's not overpowered either. If they simply let us wield 1handers in two hands as per pnp,
    Imagining a halforc barb clutching a rapier in 2 hands

  10. #10
    Community Member Vellrad's Avatar
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    Well, the raid where we face true god gives decent craftable weapons to all classes.
    But the raid where we face some minor deity, and watch it defeated by NPC really needs better loot.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarnind View Post
    handwarps amazings for monks?^^ antipode?


    lol ... ya I kinda have to agree, the wraps are not that great

  12. #12
    Community Member Dolphious's Avatar
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    If 2WF is so much better off then switch to it.

    But it's not, so you won't.

    These parochial lobbying threads are obnoxious. Yes, loot design has been poor of late, but it's not about the devs hating rangers specializing in light hammers or whatever. Gear design needs to be stepped up across the board; "buff my toon!!!" demands aren't going to help with that.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Durnak View Post
    So you enjoy using the same universal weapon for the last 3 years? This isn't asking for better gear every update...this is asking for a new weapon in a time frame that is almost consistent with completion of medical school. Its rediculous.
    What you really want is a new weapon to 'replace' the old ones, because new weapons there are. But wanting a replacement implies the new will be beter and thus more inflation.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by ripperj View Post
    What you really want is a new weapon to 'replace' the old ones, because new weapons there are. But wanting a replacement implies the new will be beter and thus more inflation.
    No. What he (and I) is asking is a better SITUATIONAL weapon than ESoS. What does that mean? That means that we want a weapon that against one/two/three kind of mobs (e.g. Devils) is better than ESoS. Then, maybe, in another raid, another one better for Drows. Or spiders. Or whatever. Or maybe a new interesting ability that gives +10 damage against spiders if you are using it in the Forgotten Realms.

    Now, ESoS is all those weapons togheter. And I'm really sick of looking at a bunch of melees with one identical weapon in a raid. It reminds me of the time with people running with Minos and Dragonscale. They were all identical.

    I agree with the OP anyway, like I said in my own thread 2 months ago.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tid12 View Post
    No. What he (and I) is asking is a better SITUATIONAL weapon than ESoS. What does that mean? That means that we want a weapon that against one/two/three kind of mobs (e.g. Devils) is better than ESoS. Then, maybe, in another raid, another one better for Drows. Or spiders. Or whatever. Or maybe a new interesting ability that gives +10 damage against spiders if you are using it in the Forgotten Realms.

    Now, ESoS is all those weapons togheter. And I'm really sick of looking at a bunch of melees with one identical weapon in a raid. It reminds me of the time with people running with Minos and Dragonscale. They were all identical.

    I agree with the OP anyway, like I said in my own thread 2 months ago.
    He is not, in fact, asking for a better situational weapon than the eSoS. That might be what he wants but it is not what he asked for in his post. I don't entirely agree with his post or yours but there certaintly is truth in the statement that as a whole eSoS is better than any new 2hander, and nearly all of them aren't even situationally better. I would argue that Sireth has a niche audience already and will be seeing even more people go for it as a 2h weapon in the future (see the Enhancement threads for Henshin Mystic and Thief Acrobat) but certaintly nothing that stands out for barbs, kensais, and other generic 2hf out there. It also doesn't qualify under what most people have Improve Crit feat in which is why it gets overlooked more often as well I feel.

    I do also agree, generally, with the posters that are attributing this lack of a contender to the eSoS due to the fact that it was, and still is, exceptionally powerful for the time/content that it was obtainable in. The reality is that this 1 item was not balanced properly with other gear at the time and is just now getting to the point that other weapons are even generally getting in the same ballpark as it. There would have been too much outrage over this weapon being nerfed but it should never have made it into the game in the state it was.

    Perhaps we will see more unique itemization to come with U17 (let's hope for another raid by then) but until then 2h appears to be stuck using an eSoS, eAGA or Drow weapon if they are looking for highest peak damage potential.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gulain View Post
    Perhaps we will see more unique itemization to come with U17 (let's hope for another raid by then) but until then 2h appears to be stuck using an eSoS, eAGA or Drow weapon if they are looking for highest peak damage potential.
    Yeah, U17...we said it even when U13 was live: "With MotU we will see a new-uber greatsword, we can be sure of that". Thing is, we've had lots of hopes and they have just disappointed us (talking ONLY about Gear/weapons customization). We keep saying "yeah maybe in 16" "U17" "U18" but those U16-17-18 are never coming.

    We want to see results and want them soon rather than later. They added Antipode in U15, why can't they do something similar with the other gear? Why isn't the dev making Weapons talking to us? Why isn't he listening to our suggestions? Why can't we work TOGHETER to come up with better gear/weapons?

  17. #17
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    eSOS was the biggest mistake in the loot tables. They havent made a weapon in 3 years that surpasses it, and are still afraid to, even after they nerfed it once.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    eSOS was the biggest mistake in the loot tables. They havent made a weapon in 3 years that surpasses it, and are still afraid to, even after they nerfed it once.
    Agreed, making an entire combat style revolve around one weapon wasn't wise.
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tid12 View Post
    We want to see results and want them soon rather than later. They added Antipode in U15, why can't they do something similar with the other gear?
    You want them to make other gear worse DPS than random gen loot? Ok!

  20. #20
    Community Member Cetus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dolphious View Post
    If 2WF is so much better off then switch to it.

    But it's not, so you won't.

    These parochial lobbying threads are obnoxious. Yes, loot design has been poor of late, but it's not about the devs hating rangers specializing in light hammers or whatever. Gear design needs to be stepped up across the board; "buff my toon!!!" demands aren't going to help with that.
    Whats obnoxious, is when a reader completely disregards what the OP is about, just to put in his irrelevant 2 cents in.

    Please point me to the part where I said that 2WF was better. You can't, because I didn't say that. What I did say however, was that 2WF WEAPONS are much more competitive with older generation one handers. The rapier is a good example. I don't think the 2WF style is superior at all, in fact it has been hurt a bit. This isn't a thread concerning weapon style, but rather the competitiveness of the weapons themselves. Get it right before you bash this thread with your incorrect blanket statements.

    Quote Originally Posted by ripperj View Post
    What you really want is a new weapon to 'replace' the old ones, because new weapons there are. But wanting a replacement implies the new will be beter and thus more inflation.
    Absolutely not, I was never a proponent of a unviversal one size fits all weapon, and that is certainly not what I'm asking for here. I said months earlier than the earthcarver SHOULD have been a citw greatsword weapon, which still loses to the esos in THREAT RANGE and DR BREAKING CAPACITY. Yet, it has higher base dmg and a bunch've bane effects tagged on that might make it situationally better for certain targets. Whats wrong with that?

    I do not want a replacement, I want other choices. Its very simple.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gulain View Post
    He is not, in fact, asking for a better situational weapon than the eSoS. That might be what he wants but it is not what he asked for in his post. I don't entirely agree with his post or yours but there certaintly is truth in the statement that as a whole eSoS is better than any new 2hander, and nearly all of them aren't even situationally better. I would argue that Sireth has a niche audience already and will be seeing even more people go for it as a 2h weapon in the future (see the Enhancement threads for Henshin Mystic and Thief Acrobat) but certaintly nothing that stands out for barbs, kensais, and other generic 2hf out there. It also doesn't qualify under what most people have Improve Crit feat in which is why it gets overlooked more often as well I feel.

    I do also agree, generally, with the posters that are attributing this lack of a contender to the eSoS due to the fact that it was, and still is, exceptionally powerful for the time/content that it was obtainable in. The reality is that this 1 item was not balanced properly with other gear at the time and is just now getting to the point that other weapons are even generally getting in the same ballpark as it. There would have been too much outrage over this weapon being nerfed but it should never have made it into the game in the state it was.

    Perhaps we will see more unique itemization to come with U17 (let's hope for another raid by then) but until then 2h appears to be stuck using an eSoS, eAGA or Drow weapon if they are looking for highest peak damage potential.
    Do you realize how completely irrelevant your post is?

    I complained that greatswords were not even given a SHOT in the raid, not that we don't have a better one than esos. I complained that the falchion is worse than one included in desert content years ago. I complained that the greataxe is a joke.

    This isn't entirely about the esos, but rather the THF weapon spectrum, so stop it.

    You wrote in your opening paragraph there that you don't agree with either of our posts, but you never said what exactly is it that you don't agree with. You seem to completely misinterpret the point I am making.
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