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  1. #1
    Brand / Commerce Manager Tolero's Avatar
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    Default Guild Renown Changes

    Greetings! We are putting forth modifications currently trying out some temporary adjustments to the Guild Renown system and monitoring the outcome and feedback this week. The intent is to address concerns from guilds and guild leaders regarding the impact of optimizing guild size in order to gain or maintain guild levels. We’ll be making additional balance changes that we think you and your guildmates will appreciate, but for now we have applied the changes without downtime. As of today, you will notice two changes to your renown rates:

    1. Renown decay no longer takes guild size into account. This should ease the pressure for guild leaders to “kick” members from the guild to offset daily renown decay rates. Renown decay now only takes a guild’s level into consideration rather than its size.
    2. Renown ransack has been increased. Previously when a guild earned levels in a day, it would gradually reduce the renown drop rates. We’ve increased the rate so that a guild can only earn roughly 3 levels in a single day. This should prevent large guilds from completely dominating the field in terms of levels per-day.

    There are some balance Pros and Cons to this method, but we’d like guilds to give us feedback about their experiences using the new settings this week. If players like the settings, or feel it is workable with minor tweaks, then we are ready to keep them! If players find the changes make matters worse, then we are scheduled to revert them. So this week, we encourage guild leaders/members to use this thread to give us feedback about how the changes are impacting your guild leveling dynamics. Important feedback for us is points where frustration has eased (or increased). Thanks for your participation as we work to improve our guild leveling system!

  2. #2
    Hero OpallNotten's Avatar
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    Reading that, I do not think I will even notice a change......I may be wrong.

    Let me start by saying, the Guild system didn't bother me the way it was. I know it bothered LOTS of others though.

    My Guild has 6 active accounts. Level 72
    <o> On Argo.......Technically o.....but It was <o> before the brackets were removed from game.

    How is this going to effect my Guild? Maybe it won't effect it at all?


    ~Opall~
    Last edited by OpallNotten; 10-22-2012 at 02:11 PM.
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  3. #3
    Community Member redspecter23's Avatar
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    A question. When does this guild renown ransack kick in? For very low level guilds, earning more than 3 levels a day is a possibility so ransack will have a greater effect, but for higher level guilds that earn only portions of a level each day, will the ransack effect them at all? Basically, is the ransack tied to the number of levels gained in a day? Or the amount of renown earned in a day? Will a high level guild start to face ransack on renown before they even gain 1/10th of a level?

    Based on what I'm reading, most of the advantage that a small guild has now will be eliminated. It will be to a guild's advantage to have as many members as possible even if they aren't extremely active. A guild with 1000 semi active members now has the huge advantage that a 6 person guild had previously. Or perhaps I'm missing something.
    Last edited by redspecter23; 10-22-2012 at 02:11 PM.

  4. #4
    Community Member scoobmx's Avatar
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    What is the break-even point for your first change, Tolero, for a level 85 guild? That is, what account size corresponds to the decay of being level 85 now?

    Depending on the answer this may be better or worse than the old system.
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  5. #5
    Community Member whiteline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tolero View Post
    Greetings! We are putting forth modifications currently trying out some temporary adjustments to the Guild Renown system and monitoring the outcome and feedback this week. The intent is to address concerns from guilds and guild leaders regarding the impact of optimizing guild size in order to gain or maintain guild levels. We’ll be making additional balance changes that we think you and your guildmates will appreciate, but for now we have applied the changes without downtime. As of today, you will notice two changes to your renown rates:

    1. Renown decay no longer takes guild size into account. This should ease the pressure for guild leaders to “kick” members from the guild to offset daily renown decay rates. Renown decay now only takes a guild’s level into consideration rather than its size.
    2. Renown ransack has been increased. Previously when a guild earned levels in a day, it would gradually reduce the renown drop rates. We’ve increased the rate so that a guild can only earn roughly 3 levels in a single day. This should prevent large guilds from completely dominating the field in terms of levels per-day.

    There are some balance Pros and Cons to this method, but we’d like guilds to give us feedback about their experiences using the new settings this week. If players like the settings, or feel it is workable with minor tweaks, then we are ready to keep them! If players find the changes make matters worse, then we are scheduled to revert them. So this week, we encourage guild leaders/members to use this thread to give us feedback about how the changes are impacting your guild leveling dynamics. Important feedback for us is points where frustration has eased (or increased). Thanks for your participation as we work to improve our guild leveling system!
    hope it helps will let you know soon

  6. #6
    Community Member Ivan_Milic's Avatar
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    Good to see you finally made this decision,but its a bit late,many guilds have kicked players.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tolero View Post
    Greetings! We are putting forth modifications currently trying out some temporary adjustments to the Guild Renown system and monitoring the outcome and feedback this week. The intent is to address concerns from guilds and guild leaders regarding the impact of optimizing guild size in order to gain or maintain guild levels. We’ll be making additional balance changes that we think you and your guildmates will appreciate, but for now we have applied the changes without downtime. As of today, you will notice two changes to your renown rates:
    I'm thinking that Mabar starting on the 25th may interfere with people being able to accurately judge the changes effects on their guild.

  8. #8

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    Can you please just tell us what the decay is rather than us having to figure it all out again?
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  9. #9
    Developer Vargouille's Avatar
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    We expect this specific change to have minimal direct impact on small, high level guilds.

    Diminishing returns on Guild Renown is only affected by actual levels gained by the guild. High level small guilds who may take many days or weeks to gain a level should see very few changes. If your guild gained levels today, you'll see fewer renown drops.

    This coming week all guilds should be seeing decay as if they guild were a size 6 guild from last week. Large guilds of all levels are expected to experience less decay than before (assuming they were high enough to have decay). No guild should see more decay than before, with these current changes we're looking at this week.
    Last edited by Vargouille; 10-22-2012 at 02:23 PM.

  10. #10
    Community Member jortann's Avatar
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    As a guild leader, seeing this news, makes me feel like I can be more open to recruiting new members.
    Last edited by jortann; 10-22-2012 at 02:25 PM.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    This coming week all guilds should be seeing decay as if they guild were a size 6 guild from last week. Large guilds of all levels are expected to experience less decay than before (assuming they were high enough to have decay). No guild should see more decay than before.
    Dose that mean this formula is wrong? It indicates that 10 is the minimum guild size used in the calculations.

  12. #12
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    Crimson Eagles of Khyber has been on the tipping point of 80 to 81 for about 3 months now and will never kick anyone as that is not what is done. So I guess we should see something.
    ~Thelanis ~ Khyber ~

  13. #13
    Community Member Spoonwelder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tolero View Post

    1. Renown decay no longer takes guild size into account. This should ease the pressure for guild leaders to “kick” members from the guild to offset daily renown decay rates. Renown decay now only takes a guild’s level into consideration rather than its size.
    2. Renown ransack has been increased. Previously when a guild earned levels in a day, it would gradually reduce the renown drop rates. We’ve increased the rate so that a guild can only earn roughly 3 levels in a single day. This should prevent large guilds from completely dominating the field in terms of levels per-day.
    Thanks for revisiting the guild renown system. I would like some clarity on point 1 as to how much the decay will be per guild size.....it sounds like a static number regardless of guild size so for a level 50/60/70 what is that decay amount. If it is a static amount it seems to stick it to the small/medium guilds as they only have X players to earn the same renown as a large guild. Without more detail, we can't really tell.

    As to point 2 - honestly don't think this was ever an issue but you may be putting it in place so guilds don't race to 100 (not that I think that could/would happen as the amount of renown needed is insane). It seems totally disconnected from decay so I can't see that it is an offset to point 1.

    I still think the better solution is to have the 'inactive' meter set to 1 day so that you only get decay on each account that is active for the day. Ie. if joeblow logs in even just to say 'hi' then he is going to add to decay but for the other casuals there is only decay if they log in. Fairer to me than a static decay figure which is going to promote massive guilds....maybe that is what you want but it may still not be what the players want.
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  14. #14
    Developer Vargouille's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krelar View Post
    Dose that mean this formula is wrong? It indicates that 10 is the minimum guild size used in the calculations.
    My apologies. I just used 6 as an example size for a small guild.

  15. #15
    Community Member gemineye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by impaqt View Post
    can you please just tell us what the decay is rather than us having to figure it all out again?
    this^
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  16. #16
    Community Member jortann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    My apologies. I just used 6 as an example size for a small guild.
    So is it based on 10? 6? or 16? I'm confused.

    Can you guys just share the new decay rate with us?
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  17. #17
    Community Member Spoonwelder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    We expect this specific change to have minimal direct impact on small, high level guilds.

    Diminishing returns on Guild Renown is only affected by actual levels gained by the guild. High level small guilds who may take many days or weeks to gain a level should see very few changes. If your guild gained levels today, you'll see fewer renown drops.

    This coming week all guilds should be seeing decay as if they guild were a size 6 guild from last week. Large guilds of all levels are expected to experience less decay than before (assuming they were high enough to have decay). No guild should see more decay than before, with these current changes we're looking at this week.
    I read this as meaning the decay numbers will be:
    Level decay
    26 44
    27 49
    28 55
    29 61
    30 68
    31 149
    32 164
    33 180
    34 197
    35 214
    36 350
    37 380
    38 412
    39 445
    40 480
    41 827
    42 889
    43 954
    44 1,022
    45 1,094
    46 1,460
    47 1,557
    48 1,659
    49 1,765
    50 1,875
    51 2,388
    52 2,531
    53 2,680
    54 2,834
    55 2,995
    56 3,688
    57 3,889
    58 4,097
    59 4,313
    60 4,536
    61 6,355
    62 6,673
    63 7,001
    64 7,340
    65 7,690
    66 9,056
    67 9,474
    68 9,905
    69 10,348
    70 10,805
    71 12,527
    72 13,064
    73 13,616
    74 14,183
    75 14,766
    76 16,901
    77 17,577
    78 18,270
    79 18,982
    80 19,712
    81 25,509
    82 26,466
    83 27,446
    84 28,450
    85 29,478
    86 33,075
    87 34,242
    88 35,437
    89 36,658
    90 37,908
    91 42,200
    92 43,607
    93 45,044
    94 46,513
    95 48,013
    96 53,084
    97 54,760
    98 56,472
    99 58,218
    100 67,500

    Basically the current level multiplier x 20 (as in max(guildsize,10)+10 was changed to max(null,10)+10).

    What it means to me is my guild (now 70) will be able to slowly build to about level 84 to 85 assuming no changes. And by slowly I mean over the next 2 years (we gain from 25k-40k per day so say we beat decay by 15k average and need 13M more to get to 85.....that's about 850days +/-)....

    Now I understand part 2 - as it slows the growth but doesn't totally stop it. This seems to level the playing field a bit between small and large guilds. But really is primarily a benefit to Medium and Large guilds....small guilds aren't specifically shafted but they don't gain anything much from this either except they can now grow if they want to without fear that a new member may not pull their weight.
    Last edited by Spoonwelder; 10-22-2012 at 02:40 PM. Reason: math check
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  18. #18
    The Hatchery amnota's Avatar
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    Back to Vast and Mysterious we go.
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  19. #19
    Community Member Auran82's Avatar
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    Why does decay exist at all?

    Is it only so the store can sell more amenities due to smaller guilds not being able to reach/maintain a high level?

  20. #20
    Community Member Spoonwelder's Avatar
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    Looking at the decay list - I think one thing you may want to do is smooth the curve a bit.....there was a reason before for the slight extra bump at the 6's and 1's as it made holding certain levels easier (ie. 69-70 decay was 517-540 where 70-71 was 540-626 or 23 vs. 86).

    Not a big issue but it really stands out now when you lock in the guild decay at the lower figures and it is just.....not elegant.
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    Guild Leader - Order of the Silver Dragons
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