http://ddowiki.com/page/Guild_Renown for guild size, this new system highly favors small guilds, medium guilds, and large guilds, and has no change for what is termed 'very small' guilds.
Devs have announced this is the START of the changes - more will likely come with time...
but please. it's not favoring just large guilds. It's favoring everyone who doesn't limit themselves to a 'very small' guilds - including 'small guillds', 'medium guilds', and 'large guilds'
OK so my guild has 10 players 5 who play together almost daily. Another group of 5 who all play together from time to time, varies 1 to 2 weeks between playing. This works out well for us so we want to keep this way. But and it's a big BUT, we are looking at only gaining about 1 guild lvl a month. Right now we are lvl 46 so it's going to take us 4 months to get a lvl 50 ship. Our goal isn't 100, but we'd like to spend some of our hard earned cash on that lvl 55 ship. At this rate looks like Turbine is gonna have to wait like 7 or 8 months to get that money from us. ( CASH TURBINE CASH LOOK CASH ) The change in renown decay did help it seemed to lower our daily decay about 1k. Any help is good, but (yep another but), watching one of the blind recruit guilds that was stuck going up and down a lvl for most of a year gain 4 lvls in a couple weeks makes us want go out and blind recruit everyone in sight also. We don't want to do that, if the changes to renown decay stay as they are we will do just that. You can say whatever you want about doing that. Seems to me it's the only to advance your guild under this system.
Forgotten in all of this is that many lower level elites have become little more than guild reknown checks. The most painfully obvious are kobold shamans. There are two ways to handle elite kobold shamans:
1. Carefully obtain resist electrical pots and/or resist element wands from vendors. Start dodging every time you see the shaman's hands go up (and don't you dare take your eyes off any of them). Make sure you have effective healing on hand (a hireling doesn't cut it) for the inevitable failures. Be in a group that understands the +10% survival bonus isn't a given.
2. Be guild level 59 (or even 29 for resist electrical 20) and faceroll my pwny kobold.
While we are discussing if guild reknown should be based on getting newbies to accept spam offers in the harbor, we should also ask why the quests are built around the assumption that accepting said spam makes the newbie far more powerful, and can now begin to run elites with the same lack of skill that older accounts have been using for quite some time. Note that after level 11, most of this huge gap ends, and much of the bonuses can be had by other means (although as a stacking effect the "other means" get harder and harder to get). The kobolds are just an extreme example as the amount of damage they can do doubled (but since it is forked, both forks get resisted) against those without the guild levels. This was put in place presumably because the high level guilds were already too effectively facerolling the kobolds.
( reposted from my post thanking turbine that will prob get ignored because it is a possitive post)
We are a guild that goes between small and medium, with a mix of once a week players and powergamers, and a couple who can only sign on once a month. Right now we have 18 active accounts as a few returned to game and we recruited a player. Our guild which had been stuck in the middle of 88 for months, is now about 1/4 thru lvl 89.
We didn't set out to get reknown, we just played the game, at all levels, and have been progressing under the new system.
Hexxa CLR 25 *TR* * ~Hexanna ~*TR* FVS 25 * Hexecuter CLR 20 *Flexanna RGR/R/M 18/1/1 *TR* * Flexa FTR/R 18/2 TR * Hextravaganz Bard *TR* 18/2 * Hexotic Sorc 13 * Hexquisite Wiz 23 * ~~Quantum Entropy * SARLONA~~ - * and various other scoundrels
I am sorry but I just can't buy into that kind of policy. Having all guilds level at the same speed sounds fair on the surface. But when you think about what is really happening, it really is not fair. That kind of policy says that the work Joe Solo in his one-man guild does is exactly equal to all the work that 100 players do together in a large guild. It's obviously not equal. Not even close. Why should Joe Solo's work count 100 times more than Sally Social's work does in her 100-woman guild? It shouldn't and that is the real problem with saying all guilds should level at the same speed.
Now if Joe Solo is an incredibly smart and hard worker, he might be able to out-earn all of the players in an 8-man guild. And if he does he should level up faster than the 8-man guild. But it does not matter how awesome Joe is, he is not going to be able to out-earn a 100-man guild all working together. Joe chose to go it solo. The players in the 100-man guild all chose to band together to contribute to a greater whole. What does it say if you make that greater whole exactly the same as Joe Solo's one-man guild?
Here it is so you don't have to scroll up:
Well played Vanshilar. I'm in a small guild on Orien (10 accounts) of which most of us are pretty active. Now, we are advancing renown wise however its at a terribly slow pace. Meanwhile, I have watched a large guild, also on Orien, gain five levels in thirteen days. Prior to this (temporary?) renown change, the same said guild was hovering back and forth between two levels for most of this year. If this system was fair to all guild sizes and does not promote large guilds than shouldn't my guild be advancing at the same rate?
Egit, Barnabys and Maschine
Members of Mistshadow Mercenaries
The question that has been asked several times now, By Sirgog, and Vanshalar most notably, is what Turbine is trying to accomplish with the renown system. If fairness isn't their goal, then all arguments for change to promote fairness are non-productive.
The primary problem with the old system, was that it penalized large guilds more than small guilds for having semi-active members, or members not earning as much renown as they cost. (because small guilds did not see an increase in decay until they passed size 10, but larger guilds increased decay for every member added)
The problem Vanshalar points out with both systems is that small guilds take longer to level up, depending on activity levels, they take orders of magnitude longer to level up. Under the old system, the theoretical trade-off was that they would top-out higher... but might take a decade or more to reach that equilibrium point. Most large guilds had already reached equilibrium, and so they were complaining about decay. Small guilds were rarely significantly impacted in their progress by decay, so they saw slow progress, even though they require far more renown per player to level up.
The fact is even under the old system most small guilds were far below the level of a typical large guild. We can't use the highest achieving small guilds as an example of what all small guilds are.
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Because lowering decay for smaller guilds would most likely result in large guilds booting players to take advantage of it. Which is bad for casual players in general.
You want this system "as is" with no accomodation made for small guilds, yet you and others are unable to show how lowering decay for small gulds will result in small guilds booting players. It won't. Lowering decay across the board will ease the pressure on guilds to worry about the play time of casual players.Really? Actually, it will result in my large guild that was stuck at level 46 to eventually get to about level 70 before stalling out again. Of course, with less incentive to move on to guilds that exclude casual players, any active players we pick up might stay with us long enough to boost this now.
The new system requires small guilds to have highly active players to cover the decay tax. Large guilds are free to operate as they wish and will eventually get to 100 with no effort, no need to take renown as an end reward and no need for guild elixirs. Large guilds can still get to 100 faster by replacing inactive players with more active players and I am sure some will do that. Small guilds can grow faster by adding players willing to join and then trimming the herd periodically. I am sure some small guilds will do that.Actually, I don't think they looked at any size guild and just looked at the very obvious flaw in their system that gave guilds incentives to exclude a large portion of they player base.
I believe Turbine looked at large guilds and the top tier small guilds when making this change. I wish they would look at metrics for all small guilds and not just those that are on the leader boards. My expectations are very low that any change will be made for smll guilds.I doubt benefiting guilds was really what they were trying to do here anyway. From what changes were made, a better title for this thread would have been "Casual Player Guild Participation Changes" since that was the issue they seem to have been trying to correct.
Turbine had an opportunity to implement a system with lowered decay for all guilds that would have greatly benefited all guilds.
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