CC Casting Druid: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...C-Summer-Build
Shiradi Wiz Plan for 1st Lifers: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...r-First-Lifers
LE Capable Int Assassin - U29: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...Assassin-Build
Warlock DC Caster: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...ld-Blast-Build
Several characters on Sarlona all starting with "Rand" in the Guild "Guardians of House Cannith". My main four characters are Randowl (20 Warlock EA DPS Build), Randslar (Bard 14 / Fighter 4 / Rogue 2 Swashbuckler), Randek (Druid CC Caster 17/Fvs 3) and Randomall (Rogue 20 assassin).
What I see is... sport athletes for example (I'm going to avoid Kardashians). In game we have renown rewards, which really seem to represent highlighted and/or amazing plays. But nothing for being consistent with playing.
If you don't get to work you don't gain renown, but if you do go to work you keep the renown and avoid decay.
You do amazing work, you gain even more renown.
Player "work" is questing. I would say a player should earn some values for quests completions guaranteed. 100 for Casual, 200 for normal, 350 for hard, 500 for elite. There should be penalties to this value based on character levels vs quest levels much like XP. There should also be first time bonus granted like quest XP, but I don't think it should follow bravery bonus.
Adventure region I do not see as "work", but more like "school" where the individuals are going out and learning to better themselves. Now maybe they'll make some form of a "discovery" that gets in the paper. Hence renown out of chests in such regions.
If you do implement guaranteed quest renown, I'd lower the max renown a guild can earn in a day as well.
Additionally, I would not allow decay to hit a guild for a day or two after they level. The constant bounce at certain points (guild size to guild level) is damn annoying. This would allow the guild to solidify their position while not spamming people that they keep hitting that level over and over.
Update the current collectable collectors.
1) converted to barter windows
2) have turn ins not only for "items" (as we currently have) but also "renown".
Last edited by Missing_Minds; 11-08-2012 at 12:02 PM.
Small Guilds and Large guilds will never be equal cuz it is Personal Preference to be in either. Especially after the renown decay has been dramatically reduced as it is currently. So it is not Turbines charge to justify what you choose or build a system that is one vs the other.
All Guilds can Advance. All are now Inclusive instead of Exclusive.
And Slarden, You yourself have admitted to never being in anything other then a small guild and never had to deal with any of the issues that plagued the old decay system. So honestly you have no clue what a High Decay Tax is. Try 80K a day at lv 65. I see 6-10 man guilds all day long on Ghallanda, many of which are 80 or 90 levels. Heck i talked to 2 of them last night and they are not seeing any issues what so ever. Matter of fact, Armada Suprema (8 peeps i think) said they are anticipating lv 100 within 2 weeks if the formula stays current.
So again.. I see no problem with Small Guilds. They get a massive bonus.
* I don't think increasing the small guild bonus is necessarily the way to go.
<seemingly offensive Army of Darkness quote>
The point is not that the bonus is right or wrong, it's that it fails as an equalizer in 50% or more test cases.
Well i admit there are only a few in lv 90+ .. but i see lv 80+ alot. And thats what the guy from AS told me while we were chatting thru some quests earlier this week. /shrug.
Either way. I think the current system is fune. Small gets a bonus. Med/Large gets peeps. All are able to advance.
More people means more renown now. And it really is a case where the extra renown for small guilds/med guilds is much less important then the pure renown gaining potential of the larger guilds. Without a per person check on this and no scaling renown gain all the way upto max guild size the answer is now just big guild for the win.
What I find astonishing is you guys seem to not realize (now) that this situation is just as disruptive if not more to existing guild structures and purely guilding based upon social aspects than a system which encouraged people to kick members who did not generate enough renown/day.
What is more disruptive to people's guilding choices?
- "Hey Jim we are trying to make the push to level 85 for the big ship. We are going to boot you from guild until we hit that mark because you only log on for an hour each week to say hi to people. Just yell at us and we will invite you to ship and party and all as always and you will be back in the guild the moment we hit our goal." - What my guild did to reach 85 fyi and it was not a great situation, but it was driven by the decay formula.
- Jim logs on to find that he is the only person in his guild left with an MotD saying "Join Super Guild XXX everyone went there". His guild simply is gone. No one enjoys the guild anymore. Not Jim or players like him who did not log on much and not those players who logged on alot either.
Proud Recipient of At least 8 Negative Rep From NA Threads.
Your guild may have given the casual players a "warning" and invited them back after reaching a specific goal, but many did not do either. Many just booted Jim and that was that. That is the difference between the old decay system and the new one. Under the new one, everyone has a choice and it is purely voluntary. No one is forced out and shunned, with no choice. If people really like being in small, close knit guilds of like-minded people, then they can and they will be able to level up too. But if they are actually not as like-minded as we were led to believe, then some of them might well jump ship to guilds that are leveling up faster. But that hardly means Jim must do the same. If he really truly desires to be in a small guild of like-minded people, he is free to seek out those people and join them, and when they form a guild they will be able to level up.
Under the old decay system, after being booted, Jim would find himself in a guild environment that did not want him because any guild he desired to join would lose renown every day by inviting him, and they knew it and he knew it too. Think about that for a minute. What a sad, anti-social environment that makes for. Under the new decay system the devs are now testing, JIm and every other unguilded player, will be in demand. Guilds will seek Jim out and want him to join them. He will be welcomed into most guilds that he might desire to join because he will make a positive (if small) contribution to their leveling up efforts. See the difference?
People decide what guild to join based on many criteria. In a game like DDO that has guild levels, guild level is one of those criteria. Different people will weight guild level differently. For some it will be very important and for others it will be not very important. Short of eliminating guild levels entirely, I don't see how that will change. But if everyone has a voluntary choice, and no one is forced out or shunned, and all guilds are viable and can level up, then I don't see how people can complain overly much.
The other thing to consider is how many individual small guilds will it take to match the per player size of a large guild. To argue that a small number of players should progress at the same rate of a guild x times their size without an equitable amount of effort is also be something to address.
I will admit however because of how the renown bonus for small guilds work, casual players continue to be affected and this should be addressed. Changing the guild renown bonus based on size tiers may be a step in the right direction
"drink triple ... see double ... act single! uh oh wife aggro" *hides*
Before June 2010, powergamers guilded with casual harbor chatters who guilded with flowersniffers who guilded with zergers. A few were groupings of folks with the exact same playstyles, but it wasn't enforced nor was there any penalty for having anyone under the Siberys rings marked with the same guildtag as you, except for possible 'guilt by association' stigma of jerks in your guild.
Before June 2010, A guild was framework for easy communication and a common identity for players. Any addendum to that was defined by the membership. After U5, it became 'counterproductive' to a powergaming playstyle to have flowersniffers dragging down your guild's 'power' by causing decay they don't 'work' to make up for. Etc.
And meant to mention earlier:
Under the old formula - they decayed at size 10, under the new formula everyone decays at size 10. Nothing changed for them in the realm of decay and they are still being 'taxed' for more members than they have. If they have 11, this was the 'sweet spot' in the old system and likely lost some sweetness as far as speed vs a large guild, but wouldn't progress any faster or slower than before.
Also, to me, speed of getting there doesn't matter, as long as nothing is artificially preventing me from getting there eventually, and I have a blast along the way, getting there 'whenever' is good enough. When and how fast you get there is your business and doesn't affect my guild's success or failure. It isn't a race or contest to me.
Last edited by DocBenway; 11-08-2012 at 10:41 PM.
Now, was it nice for Turbine to design it in such a manner? I don't know of any one that will say "yes, it was nice."
But clearly, the players choose greed over friendships.
You created this problem of (housing) so build on it, 100 is old! Yes a high level guild is basically a House and can be owned by the guild leader if guild rewnown is taken for granted. I Cursed the day Guild ships were ever invented.
Stop with the easy buttons and realize that guilds have ships that is a privilage and not something that should be easy buttoned. If an Easy button happens then we all have our own flying house. Be caerful what yuo ask, because if we all had our own flying house this game would lag so bad and be so unplayable that the game might die in one fell update!
Last edited by Zorth; 11-08-2012 at 11:39 PM.
The Blood of the Red Dragon
With no guild decay every player in the game has level 100 guild ships with one member or invite the whole server because there is no consequence.
Either way is Death to this game.
The current status quo before this thread, made sense and STOP MAKING THREADS AND CRYING ABOUT DECAY WHEN IT IS THE GUILD LEADER WHO IS TO BLAME!
It is up to the Guild leaders to manage their guilds for f sake!
Last edited by Zorth; 11-08-2012 at 11:48 PM.
The Blood of the Red Dragon
The current system, before this thread, works and we want higher than level 100.
The Blood of the Red Dragon
If a game design forces players into two bad choices, for no good reason, it is the the fault of the game designers, not the fault of the players. The old decay system forced guild leaders to choose between kicking out casual and social players, or punishing the more active players in his guild by stagnating them forever with no chance to advance. Great choice. The new decay system being tested now, opens up much better options for guilds. No longer are they forced to choose between only bad choices. Now good choices are available that were not available under the old decay system. Bottom line: the old decay system encouraged and rewarded anti-social behavior on the part of guilds, and it should not have.
* I wish I could take credit for this example, but I can't. It was posted in a much earlier thread on this subject. I liked it a lot so I have plagerized it here for you. Perhaps the original poster can reply and take credit for it.
Last edited by Tshober; 11-09-2012 at 12:44 AM.
This is a massive tread and i did not read all posts.. but i have being following it alot and haven't seeing any sugestion like the one i am thinking to help small guilds...
my proposal is to increase the sweet spot for guild bonus.. instead of 6 for very small do 20 for example...
not sure if this will help only small guilds but it also make sense as if u have a guild with only 6 members.. u will have a party with only guild mates once in a blue moon.. and my point of view of a very small guild is to have a chance of having some ppl online to play along with.. and 20-24 would have a little chance of having more ppl to play with u at time/lv..
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