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  1. #4061
    Community Member Nestroy's Avatar
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    Default Another Update, another missed opportunity...

    ... for the devs to finally do away with ransack and renown decay.

    Well, I will go for Shadowfell Conspiracy, but in my guild there will only be a few following. Sad but true.

  2. #4062
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nestroy View Post
    ... for the devs to finally do away with ransack and renown decay.

    Well, I will go for Shadowfell Conspiracy, but in my guild there will only be a few following. Sad but true.
    Sad

    Hopefully Turbine will do something soon, rather than Soon(TM). But then, I might as well believe in the Easter Bunny.
    It's definitely an N-word.

  3. #4063
    Community Member Blue100000005's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dandonk View Post
    Sad

    Hopefully Turbine will do something soon, rather than Soon(TM). But then, I might as well believe in the Easter Bunny.
    I will see whoever there. Still LOVE ddo regardless of the little imperfections.
    "Eye of the Dragon" on Argonessen. "Quest with the best"


  4. #4064
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue100000005 View Post
    I will see whoever there. Still LOVE ddo regardless of the little imperfections.
    Oh, I do too. But why settle for less than it could be?

    And to, this is not a "little" issue. I see big potential issues in the skewed system that's currently running.
    It's definitely an N-word.

  5. #4065
    Community Member Arnez's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nestroy View Post
    ... for the devs to finally do away with ransack and renown decay.

    Well, I will go for Shadowfell Conspiracy, but in my guild there will only be a few following. Sad but true.

    I've got a tin-foil theory that's probably more right on target than I realize:

    I bet Guild Decay is the brain-child of the son (or relation) of someone high up. All the "smart folk" want it gone and can totally see that it actually detracts from the game- but are afraid to go up against nepotism.

    Given the complete absence of information as to why guild decay is a good thing, what else should we think?

    Now... back to my Guild Skyship (which will probably hit NWO sooner than Guild decay disappearing)

  6. #4066
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arnez View Post
    Given the complete absence of information as to why guild decay is a good thing, what else should we think?
    You could be right, who knows.

    There once was a point to decay. Now the only point is to make large guilds insanely better at levelling than small guilds. Matehematically they were ahead before, too, but now the difference is just stupid.

    Let's get rid of decay altogether, please. It does not serve any real purpose anymore, and it only annoys people.
    It's definitely an N-word.

  7. #4067
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue100000005 View Post
    I will see whoever there. Still LOVE ddo regardless of the little imperfections.
    I like DDO as well and try to not let the guild system get to me, but I am not succeeding at that. I pre-purchased the expansion and plan to keep my hand in DDO for now, but I am not sure whether the game will make sense for me long-term. I decided a while ago I would wait until this October and if there is not some adjustment made then I will most likely look towards other ways to spend my hobby time. That is the one-year marker for the current change and also the time my VIP subscription runs out. I've already turned off my VIP in account management so it's not automatically renewed like last year.

    For me the issue isn't so much my guild level, it's the health of small guilds in general and the impact on the LFM system. While I don't use the LFM system as much as I used to, I think keeping a strong LFM system is important for the game. I also don't like that I have to run content very fast and solo/zerg to keep up with decay. I don't see why I should have to run content to just avoid moving backwards. Why can't we run content slower and advance at a slower pace? The daily decay forces every guild to run a certain amount of content just to break even. Obviously when that is divided by 10 instead of 200 it means those 10 people must run the same amount of content that 200 people run just to cover the daily decay tax. n If you have casual people that log in a few times and run one or two quests when they do login, it's makes it that much harder.

    For nowI am playing DDO while testing out the waters of other games as well. But the guild system is a big factor in whether I will continue.
    CC Casting Druid: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...C-Summer-Build
    Shiradi Wiz Plan for 1st Lifers: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...r-First-Lifers
    U25 Patch 1 Dex Halfling Assassin Build: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...x-Assassin-1-0
    Warlock DC Caster: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...ld-Blast-Build

    Several characters on Sarlona all starting with "Rand" in the Guild "Guardians of House Cannith". My main four characters are Randowl (18 rogue 2 artificer mechanic - hope to go back to DC casting some day), Randslar (Bard 14 / Fighter 4 / Rogue 2 Swashbuckler), Randek (Druid CC Caster 17/Fvs 3) and Randomall (Rogue 20 assassin).

  8. #4068
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    So many typos above and I still can't edit my posts. At least my real account is working now.

    I didn't mean to say "why should I have to run content" I meant to say "Why should I have to run content FAST".
    CC Casting Druid: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...C-Summer-Build
    Shiradi Wiz Plan for 1st Lifers: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...r-First-Lifers
    U25 Patch 1 Dex Halfling Assassin Build: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...x-Assassin-1-0
    Warlock DC Caster: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...ld-Blast-Build

    Several characters on Sarlona all starting with "Rand" in the Guild "Guardians of House Cannith". My main four characters are Randowl (18 rogue 2 artificer mechanic - hope to go back to DC casting some day), Randslar (Bard 14 / Fighter 4 / Rogue 2 Swashbuckler), Randek (Druid CC Caster 17/Fvs 3) and Randomall (Rogue 20 assassin).

  9. #4069
    Community Member UurlockYgmeov's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slarden View Post
    I like DDO as well and try to not let the guild system get to me, but I am not succeeding at that. I pre-purchased the expansion and plan to keep my hand in DDO for now, but I am not sure whether the game will make sense for me long-term. I decided a while ago I would wait until this October and if there is not some adjustment made then I will most likely look towards other ways to spend my hobby time. That is the one-year marker for the current change and also the time my VIP subscription runs out. I've already turned off my VIP in account management so it's not automatically renewed like last year.

    For me the issue isn't so much my guild level, it's the health of small guilds in general and the impact on the LFM system. While I don't use the LFM system as much as I used to, I think keeping a strong LFM system is important for the game. I also don't like that I have to run content very fast and solo/zerg to keep up with decay. I don't see why I should have to run content to just avoid moving backwards. Why can't we run content slower and advance at a slower pace? The daily decay forces every guild to run a certain amount of content just to break even. Obviously when that is divided by 10 instead of 200 it means those 10 people must run the same amount of content that 200 people run just to cover the daily decay tax. n If you have casual people that log in a few times and run one or two quests when they do login, it's makes it that much harder.

    For nowI am playing DDO while testing out the waters of other games as well. But the guild system is a big factor in whether I will continue.

    +1

    the guild I am in now faces a paradigm shift. We are a small guild of 13 modified accounts. Currently just under level 60. Our daily decay is just under 4400. I run multiple toons every day through a specific quest to just fight decay. One of our core members who has been fundamental to the essential culture of the guild is deploying for his 3rd tour of the sandbox; which means that he will not be playing for a year (going into never-never internet land) and with him his wife who also plays.

    Our guild will hit the first major wall of decay at level 61 at which point our decay goes up by almost 50% to just under 6400 per day.

    So do we just stagnate or do we just mass invite? We rather not do either.

    It is time for a correction. Time to actually make a guild system that works and not just a ghost of an incomplete idea.

    I've been playing since the beginning (this account was created Aug of beta - had another from March? or so of beta but lost the username/password or something like that and then created this one). I really do enjoy the game and spend allot of time coaching and mentoring.

    So I guess it is time to coach and mentor the Turbine team. How is that Neverwinter has a fully functional guild system (with all the bells and whistles) and it is not even out of beta?









    It has a guild portal that allows for auto-recruitment; guild banks; and many other features too numerous to count.

    http://neverwinter.gamepedia.com/Guild

    Time to get with the program Turbine. Decay is only part of the greater issue with guilds, at least fix it to be fair for all, and kindly do it before the expansion launches; and tell us that you are fixing it.

  10. #4070
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    I agree Uurlock. I really do like the NWO guild system. For folks like us that have been here a while it's not so easy to walk away even when the guild system is so much better.

    For a new player that wants to play and start a guild with their family and/or a few friends, I would never suggest DDO given the decay hurdle they will eventually face. You might as well invest the time in Neverwinter since the system is already size-neutral and is geared towards facilitating the guild and not on punishment mechanisms. I like DDO, but knowing what I know now I wouldn't start playing the game today with a group of friends as I did. The game discourages that play style and actively punishes it with decay.
    CC Casting Druid: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...C-Summer-Build
    Shiradi Wiz Plan for 1st Lifers: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...r-First-Lifers
    U25 Patch 1 Dex Halfling Assassin Build: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...x-Assassin-1-0
    Warlock DC Caster: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...ld-Blast-Build

    Several characters on Sarlona all starting with "Rand" in the Guild "Guardians of House Cannith". My main four characters are Randowl (18 rogue 2 artificer mechanic - hope to go back to DC casting some day), Randslar (Bard 14 / Fighter 4 / Rogue 2 Swashbuckler), Randek (Druid CC Caster 17/Fvs 3) and Randomall (Rogue 20 assassin).

  11. #4071
    Community Member UurlockYgmeov's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slarden View Post
    I agree Uurlock. I really do like the NWO guild system. For folks like us that have been here a while it's not so easy to walk away even when the guild system is so much better.

    For a new player that wants to play and start a guild with their family and/or a few friends, I would never suggest DDO given the decay hurdle they will eventually face. You might as well invest the time in Neverwinter since the system is already size-neutral and is geared towards facilitating the guild and not on punishment mechanisms. I like DDO, but knowing what I know now I wouldn't start playing the game today with a group of friends as I did. The game discourages that play style and actively punishes it with decay.
    Hear-Hear!

  12. #4072
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    I am hopeful that arguments about guild size will be kept to a minimum. Turbine really set the stage for those type of arguments with these type of comments:

    Quote Originally Posted by Tolero View Post
    The intent is to address concerns from guilds and guild leaders regarding the impact of optimizing guild size in order to gain or maintain guild levels. We’ll be making additional balance changes that we think you and your guildmates will appreciate, but for now we have applied the changes without downtime.
    I hope we don't go back to the large vs small guild arguments. I really think Turbine set the stage for that when they decided to make it much easier for large guilds and even harder for tiny guilds by adding the renown ransack penalty on top of the legacy decay amount.

    I personally found it offensive that Turbine was implying small guilds are small because they were trying to optimize guild level. Under the old system 20 was better able to mathematically exploit the flaw in the decay calculation than 10 or less and I can prove that out. Also, the percentage of people that really did this is so tiny in comparison with the guilds that didn't do it.

    I also think years of frustration from large guild leaders and members of large guilds caused some heated discussions because they didn't want to go back to the old system. Turbine should have anticipated such arguments when they decided to make a change that was so unbalanced.

    In the end, I think almost everyone agrees decay is bad and would like to see it eliminated. I think everyone agrees (almost) that we don't want to return to the old system and see our friends in large guilds get stuck from decay. I think everyone agrees (almost) that we would like to see decay reduced for small guilds so our friends in small guilds don't get stuck due to decay.

    By the way, Tolero's post said they will be making additional balance changes appreciated by your guildmates (see above). I hope you are all appreciative of those additional changes that were made to balance the system for guilds of all sizes.
    CC Casting Druid: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...C-Summer-Build
    Shiradi Wiz Plan for 1st Lifers: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...r-First-Lifers
    U25 Patch 1 Dex Halfling Assassin Build: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...x-Assassin-1-0
    Warlock DC Caster: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...ld-Blast-Build

    Several characters on Sarlona all starting with "Rand" in the Guild "Guardians of House Cannith". My main four characters are Randowl (18 rogue 2 artificer mechanic - hope to go back to DC casting some day), Randslar (Bard 14 / Fighter 4 / Rogue 2 Swashbuckler), Randek (Druid CC Caster 17/Fvs 3) and Randomall (Rogue 20 assassin).

  13. #4073
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slarden View Post
    I personally found it offensive that Turbine was implying small guilds are small because they were trying to optimize guild level. Under the old system 20 was better able to mathematically exploit the flaw in the decay calculation than 10 or less and I can prove that out.
    Bear in mind that to some of us a 20 member guild is too tiny to want to join. That's part of the problem in the conversation too.

  14. #4074
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    Bear in mind that to some of us a 20 member guild is too tiny to want to join. That's part of the problem in the conversation too.
    I think most people don't care what size guild other people want to be in. Let's just hope you don't go work for Turbine. That's the last thing we need is another developer with a bias/grudge against smaller guilds.
    CC Casting Druid: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...C-Summer-Build
    Shiradi Wiz Plan for 1st Lifers: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...r-First-Lifers
    U25 Patch 1 Dex Halfling Assassin Build: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...x-Assassin-1-0
    Warlock DC Caster: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...ld-Blast-Build

    Several characters on Sarlona all starting with "Rand" in the Guild "Guardians of House Cannith". My main four characters are Randowl (18 rogue 2 artificer mechanic - hope to go back to DC casting some day), Randslar (Bard 14 / Fighter 4 / Rogue 2 Swashbuckler), Randek (Druid CC Caster 17/Fvs 3) and Randomall (Rogue 20 assassin).

  15. #4075
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charononus View Post
    Bear in mind that to some of us a 20 member guild is too tiny to want to join. That's part of the problem in the conversation too.
    What is the problem? Make guilds more equal, and everyone can join the type of guild they want without feeling left out or discriminated against. Win for everyone!
    It's definitely an N-word.

  16. #4076
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    Ahhh, Turbine censorship... Always fun.

    Anyways, we all agree renown decay is horrible and shouldn't be in the game at all.

    The devs do not agree.

    It is sad that they want to throw away a percentage of their players because they insist on using a decay mechanism.

    But Winter is coming.

    And frankly - the game that makes me have the most fun is going to get my money.

  17. #4077
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slarden View Post
    I think most people don't care what size guild other people want to be in. Let's just hope you don't go work for Turbine. That's the last thing we need is another developer with a bias/grudge against smaller guilds.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dandonk View Post
    What is the problem? Make guilds more equal, and everyone can join the type of guild they want without feeling left out or discriminated against. Win for everyone!
    I'm not saying that decay is good, decay is bad and should go, I probably didn't post this completely right, the comment also had to do with this comment in the post I quoted.
    Quote Originally Posted by slarden View Post

    I personally found it offensive that Turbine was implying small guilds are small because they were trying to optimize guild level. Under the old system 20 was better able to mathematically exploit the flaw in the decay calculation than 10 or less and I can prove that out. Also, the percentage of people that really did this is so tiny in comparison with the guilds that didn't do it.
    To me a guild size of 20 is a small guild and those that did optimize and made a guild size of 20 were making a small guild. You think that that's not a small guild from the way you talk about it. That's part of what I'm trying to say the problem is when we start using terms like small, large, ext.

  18. #4078
    Community Member UurlockYgmeov's Avatar
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    I've been really quite as of late (probably because of the annoyance/frustration factor of the forum changes)....

    I just want a complete guild system. I just want a guild system that is size neutral and style neutral. I want a system that makes managing / joining a guild easy (like NWO) and promotes the guild system as a whole. And I want it now. Too long already. This has a direct impact on all players, not just a small fraction that play a specific build or style. This on the scale of needs immediate attention is up there right after lag.

  19. #4079
    Community Member Arnez's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eris2323 View Post
    Ahhh, Turbine censorship... Always fun.

    Anyways, we all agree renown decay is horrible and shouldn't be in the game at all.

    The devs do not agree.

    It is sad that they want to throw away a percentage of their players because they insist on using a decay mechanism.

    But Winter is coming.

    And frankly - the game that makes me have the most fun is going to get my money.
    Holy Carp Batman! Of all the "banter" that has been thrown across both sides of the aisle in this "debate" the 2 least inflammatory remarks are censored?!?!?
    And they weren't even that bad (if you have been following the last 200 pages- of course if anyone has been following the last 200 pages you can see ONE THING BOTH SIDES AGREE ON: Guild Decay Needs to GO AWAY. With extreme prejudice.)


    I'm with you eris. Winter is Coming.

  20. #4080
    Community Member Charononus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arnez View Post

    I'm with you eris. Winter is Coming.
    Winter came and has already died in the fires of a million exploits and other problems. I bought the guardian founders pack and regret it. I may check it out again in a year or so if reviews say it has gotten better. But I personally know of 5 exploits that aren't fixed and probably won't be because fixing them involves rewriting server client communication. Other problems are

    Broken aggro and threat mechanics

    Broken group finding tools

    Broken loot system that encourages griefing / ninjas

    1 Boss fight mechanic for all bosses

    Cheese is the predominate way to fight things (throwing mobs off cliffs ext because hp is so high)

    Pvp has greater rewards/min for afk than participation

    All gear is BoE, granted ddo is leaning this way too

    I was never bothered by the whole 4e, not dnd issues people brought up but honestly these are game play problems that are so serious that it's pathetic.

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