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  1. #1
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    Default How do the DoS stances work?

    Hello. Just wondering how the paladin defender of siberys stances worked. Are they timed or are they permanent? Do they stack with combat expertise or replace it?

    Thanks

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by FalexiaSutter View Post
    Hello. Just wondering how the paladin defender of siberys stances worked. Are they timed or are they permanent? Do they stack with combat expertise or replace it?

    Thanks
    They are "permanent" they will only go off if you die or manually turn them off.

    They also stack with combat expertise or power attack. In fact they stack anything except themselves as far as I know.
    Last edited by Krelar; 10-22-2012 at 12:14 PM.

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    Community Member spectroum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krelar View Post
    They are "permanent" they will only go off if you die or manually turn them off.

    They also stack with combat expertise or power attack. In fact they stack anything except themselves as far as I know.
    yup and keep in mind that when u are in stance are immune to rage effects (madstone and primal screem too) and inspire recklesness
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    Community Member Ralmeth's Avatar
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    It's a stance that you can turn on or off, and it's independant of any other stance. So it is no problem to have combat expertise or power attack turned on at the same time. Also, it is permenant until you turn it off or you die. In general, you will want to have the DoS stance turned on at all times. The only time to think about turning it off is if you have a long run with nothing to fight.
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    Quote Originally Posted by spectroum View Post
    yup and keep in mind that when u are in stance are immune to rage effects (madstone and primal screem too) and inspire recklesness
    I don't think this is true. The Combat Expertise feat blocks all rage effects, but the Defender of Siberys stances do not. If they did, then the Fury of the Wild epic destiny would be a really bad match for DoS paladins, whereas right now it seems to work pretty well.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by EbbOnFire View Post
    I don't think this is true. The Combat Expertise feat blocks all rage effects, but the Defender of Siberys stances do not. If they did, then the Fury of the Wild epic destiny would be a really bad match for DoS paladins, whereas right now it seems to work pretty well.
    The DoS stances definitely block rage effects. I don't even have combat expertise on my DoS pally currently. Primal Scream has no effect on me. If it works on you you're either not in stance or have some wierd bug going on. I also used to use madstone boots as my potency/striding item since I was immune to the rage proc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralmeth View Post
    It's a stance that you can turn on or off, and it's independant of any other stance. So it is no problem to have combat expertise or power attack turned on at the same time. Also, it is permenant until you turn it off or you die. In general, you will want to have the DoS stance turned on at all times. The only time to think about turning it off is if you have a long run with nothing to fight.
    I have Stiding 30% boots which offsets the Stance slowdown effect nicely

    AJ

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    Community Member Ralmeth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by auntjobiska View Post
    I have Stiding 30% boots which offsets the Stance slowdown effect nicely

    AJ
    Agreed and as do I. Even with 30% striders you still are running a little bit slower. It's a matter of preference but again sometimes I find if there's a long run without any fighting or the fighting isn't terribly challenging it can be faster to turn your stance off. For example, running to ADQ1 once your way over level for the explorer area.
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  9. #9
    Community Member Ralmeth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EbbOnFire View Post
    I don't think this is true. The Combat Expertise feat blocks all rage effects, but the Defender of Siberys stances do not. If they did, then the Fury of the Wild epic destiny would be a really bad match for DoS paladins, whereas right now it seems to work pretty well.
    This is incorrect. The DoS stance blocks all rage effects. Combat Expertise does not. This can easily be tested by having one stance at a time turned on while you use a rage clicky.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralmeth View Post
    This is incorrect. The DoS stance blocks all rage effects. Combat Expertise does not. This can easily be tested by having one stance at a time turned on while you use a rage clicky.
    Well, learn something new every day. That's the opposite of what's posted on ddowiki, and I hadn't investigated it in play much beyond that. If you're certain, it'd be worth putting in an update to http://ddowiki.com/page/Defender_of_...s_enhancements and http://ddowiki.com/page/Combat_Expertise. I'll try to remember to check it on my pally tonight and update if nobody else has by then.

  11. #11
    Community Member elraido's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EbbOnFire View Post
    Well, learn something new every day. That's the opposite of what's posted on ddowiki, and I hadn't investigated it in play much beyond that. If you're certain, it'd be worth putting in an update to http://ddowiki.com/page/Defender_of_...s_enhancements and http://ddowiki.com/page/Combat_Expertise. I'll try to remember to check it on my pally tonight and update if nobody else has by then.
    I am 95% sure Ralmeth is right on this and the wiki is wrong
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  12. #12
    Community Member Ralmeth's Avatar
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    Hmm...I found in the update 14 release notes that combat expertise wards against rage so it's possible this is true. Someone just needs to test it and post it here so we'll know for sure. I'll test it out tonight if I get a chance, but if someone has a chance to test it in the meantime that would be helpful.
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    Quote Originally Posted by elraido View Post
    I am 95% sure Ralmeth is right on this and the wiki is wrong
    This is great news, as I was wondering what to do with all of this extra platinum I have. Now I know I can go spend it on respecing Fury of the Wild epic points. Or, more likely, just ignore the destiny entirely.

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    Okay, I just did some experimenting, and I do think there's a bug in here. But another set of eyes would be good.

    Setup:
    In Haverdasher's. L18 Paladin / L2 fighter / L5 Epic. L5 Fury of the Wild
    Base strength w/equipment 34. Base con w/equipment 29
    (Str and Con were in sync on all experiments, so I'll just use Str from here out)
    Character has Defender of Siberys III, Combat Expertise, Primal Rage, Defensive Fighting, and a bunch of Rage potions

    What I think is supposed to happen: (Based on messages I see in combat log, not on ddowiki or descriptions)
    DoS III stance: +6 STR, cancels rage, blocks rage (The effect on rage is not in the description in game)
    Combat expertise: cancels rage, blocks rage (This is in description in game)
    Defensive fighting: cancels rage, blocks rage (This is not in description in game)
    Primal rage: +5 STR (doesn't stack with rage potion)
    Rage potion: +2 STR (doesn't stack with primal rage)

    What actually happens:
    [Action][Resulting STR]
    [Base (no stances, no effects)][34]
    [Combat Expertise On][34]
    [Combat Expertise Off][34]
    [Rage Potion][36]
    [Rage Potion wears off][34]
    [Primal Rage][39]
    [Primal Rage wears off][34]
    [Rage Potion][36]
    [Combat Expertise On][34]
    [Combat Expertise Off][34] (No more rage to wear off)
    [Rage Potion][36]
    [Defensive Fighting On][34]
    [Defensive Fighting Off][34] (So plain old Defensive Fighting works same as Combat Expertise for this)
    [Rage Potion][36]
    [DoS III Stance On][40] (-2 for canceling rage, +6 for stance -- looks good)
    [DoS III Stance Off][34] (Rage is gone)
    [DoS III Stance On][40]
    [Rage Potion][40] (No effect, rage blocked)
    [Primal Rage][40] (No effect, rage blocked)
    [DoS III Stance Off][34]

    So far, so boring. DoS blocks and cancels rage effects. So does Defensive Fighting. So does Combat Expertise. But wait....

    [Primal Rage][39] (+5, as expected)
    [DoS III Stance On][45] (<=== Looks like a bug. I'm getting +6 from stance, plus the +5 from Primal Rage)
    [DoS III Stance Off][39] (Back to raged state)
    [Primal Rage wears off in time][34] (Back to base)

    So there seem to be a couple of things here:
    - Description of Defensive Fighting should say that it cancels and blocks rage.
    - Description of DoS III Stance should say that it cancels and blocks rage.
    - The Rage produced by Primal Rage is not acting the same as the rage from a rage potion in terms of being cancelled by DoS III. Perhaps this is because it's a "you and allies" effect or something, but seems wrong.

    So for the time being, if you want a little boost to STR and CON, then just step out of DoS stance, activate Primal Rage, and then duck back into stance.

    Hope this helps someone, and if anyone can confirm that would be great. There's always the chance I've got some enhancement or piece of equipment or something that's screwing things up, though nothing leaps out at me.
    Last edited by EbbOnFire; 10-23-2012 at 08:49 PM.

  15. #15
    Community Member Ralmeth's Avatar
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    I can confirm that combat expertise blocks rage effects. I just tested it. Hmm, I must have missed that in the release notes...Not that I or any DoS should run with combat expertise turned on and DoS stance turned off. That's just silly
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralmeth View Post
    I can confirm that combat expertise blocks rage effects. I just tested it. Hmm, I must have missed that in the release notes...Not that I or any DoS should run with combat expertise turned on and DoS stance turned off. That's just silly
    Thank you for checking that, Ralmeth. And I agree, it would be a silly combination.

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