Results 1 to 17 of 17
  1. #1
    Community Member Arkantios's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    161

    Default Ip Deception ftw?

    So I'm thinking about an interesting build that I doubt has been tried or has want to be tried on a rogue before. My question however, is that when you have more than 1 improved deception item such as an epic midnight greetings, seal of house avithoul, epic golden guile, and even the shadow dancer 5th lvl autogrant; will the ip deception procs group together? Will they all have separate proc rates like having multiple lit 2's or what would happen?
    XxMazexX the Rogue SneakATank, 27th Life, Completionist.

  2. #2
    The Hatchery
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    2,649

    Default

    Improved Deception on weapons, both weapons, will stack with worn items that give Imp. Deception.

    I don't know about worn items stacking, but I doubt it.

  3. #3
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    74

    Default

    the problem with improved deception is in groups

    if you blind a boss, he will lose focus on a tank and come after you instead

  4. #4
    The Hatchery
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    2,649

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by maximadan View Post
    if you blind a boss, he will lose focus on a tank and come after you instead
    This was the case, but in an update quite awhile ago, the effect changed. It now functions as a bluff effect, rendering the target vulnerable to sneak attacks but unaffecting its aggro list.

    Normal mobs will spin around, as per bluff, but red and purple names will not.

    It's been awhile since I've had the chance to see this effect (I almost exclusively duo/trio these days), but I believe this is the case. At least I don't notice any spinning with bosses when I beat them down with Golden Guile and eMG.

    But even if I am wrong, there's no reason to use deception effects on bosses if they're already being tanked. Though, if you have multiple players using bluff/deception, this can make a Rogue tank viable, as the boss will be perpetually vulnerable to sneak attacks from everyone. Will have to remind SWAT of this.

  5. #5
    Community Member Arkantios's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    161

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Qezuzu View Post
    This was the case, but in an update quite awhile ago, the effect changed. It now functions as a bluff effect, rendering the target vulnerable to sneak attacks but unaffecting its aggro list.

    Normal mobs will spin around, as per bluff, but red and purple names will not.

    It's been awhile since I've had the chance to see this effect (I almost exclusively duo/trio these days), but I believe this is the case. At least I don't notice any spinning with bosses when I beat them down with Golden Guile and eMG.

    But even if I am wrong, there's no reason to use deception effects on bosses if they're already being tanked. Though, if you have multiple players using bluff/deception, this can make a Rogue tank viable, as the boss will be perpetually vulnerable to sneak attacks from everyone. Will have to remind SWAT of this.
    See that's what I'm actually thinking of, though instead of having a normal tank I'm trying to make a pure rogue that is veritile enough to be able to tank this way.
    XxMazexX the Rogue SneakATank, 27th Life, Completionist.

  6. #6
    Community Member eclipse668's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    110

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Arkantios View Post
    See that's what I'm actually thinking of, though instead of having a normal tank I'm trying to make a pure rogue that is veritile enough to be able to tank this way.
    sounds like a fun project. convince some friends to specc as support for your toon and keep me up to date please..

  7. #7
    Community Member Arkantios's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    161

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by eclipse668 View Post
    sounds like a fun project. convince some friends to specc as support for your toon and keep me up to date please..
    Sorry havent looked on the forums for quite a while and havent been able to be on DDO for about the same time. I should hit 20 today though and Ill farm for my eGolden Guile and go try to tank something soon.
    XxMazexX the Rogue SneakATank, 27th Life, Completionist.

  8. #8
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    US
    Posts
    1,063

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Arkantios View Post
    See that's what I'm actually thinking of, though instead of having a normal tank I'm trying to make a pure rogue that is veritile enough to be able to tank this way.
    Without intimidate working as it used to, ie; "instantly grabbing agro and putting you at the top of the list", a rogue tank is very difficult now. if not impossible to make a comparable tank build to standard melees.

    Not sure how you intend to tank with a deception item. Even bluff no longer works the same.

    I had a great rogue tank. 2 actually. Now I have none due to the updates. I've become a member of the turbine carelessly broke my build group. Again.

    To date there is only one way to tank when there used to be many. that one way is threat gen.
    If you can't accumulate enough threat on a build to compete with current melee builds then your wasting your time.
    Krimsonrayne -Ultimate Lord of Shadows on Orien server.
    Using -Ethan Hunt build -Assassin III, 900+ HP versatile, survivalist, high dps, str build.
    Build presented in video format. Long Live R.O.G.U.E.

  9. #9
    Community Member Arkantios's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    161

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MaximusParthas View Post
    Without intimidate working as it used to, ie; "instantly grabbing agro and putting you at the top of the list", a rogue tank is very difficult now. if not impossible to make a comparable tank build to standard melees.

    Not sure how you intend to tank with a deception item. Even bluff no longer works the same.

    I had a great rogue tank. 2 actually. Now I have none due to the updates. I've become a member of the turbine carelessly broke my build group. Again.

    To date there is only one way to tank when there used to be many. that one way is threat gen.
    If you can't accumulate enough threat on a build to compete with current melee builds then your wasting your time.
    Interesting, well I have yet to try it out and see what i can do to tweak it. I went human for the 3 sent. dragonmarks for my eFang so thats a tidge of incite right there. Anyway thanks for the advice.
    XxMazexX the Rogue SneakATank, 27th Life, Completionist.

  10. #10
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    US
    Posts
    1,063

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Arkantios View Post
    Interesting, well I have yet to try it out and see what i can do to tweak it. I went human for the 3 sent. dragonmarks for my eFang so thats a tidge of incite right there. Anyway thanks for the advice.
    Good luck! I hope you succeed.
    Krimsonrayne -Ultimate Lord of Shadows on Orien server.
    Using -Ethan Hunt build -Assassin III, 900+ HP versatile, survivalist, high dps, str build.
    Build presented in video format. Long Live R.O.G.U.E.

  11. #11
    2015 DDO Players Council InsanityIsYourFriend's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    somewhere up high
    Posts
    791

    Default

    Well it seems he has capped now, I run EH lords of dust with him the other day on my fury of the wild dark monk rocking a solid dps enough to pull of some normal tanks

    I did not take aggro once from kaurus only dmg i took was from his whirl-winding blades *we had no real healer so i did have to back off for a little* but from where i stood he takes very little dmg through dodge and other bonuses (seems he has some displacement clickies) and i was thoroughly impressed! All in all I believe that he can do this!

    GREAT BUILD MAZE!
    I am Falontani, Zeblazing, Zeholysoul, Zeshadowfist, Zesoulhuntah, Zedrunk, Singingblade, and many alts
    Quote Originally Posted by 404error View Post
    Thanks for the report and Whoa.
    Quote Originally Posted by MajMalphunktion View Post
    This is talked about a ton, and nothing is concrete at this point. Enter bugs with examples. Tons and tons of bugs. Make Gazebo cry.

  12. #12
    Community Member Moltier's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Hungary, Budapest
    Posts
    779

    Default

    Purple named bosses are immune to it, so thats out. Or its just not bugged on them.
    Red named bosses are not immune, so imp.deception resets the aggro (normal deception was fixed long ago, improved come after that with the old bug without fix), and since rogues usually dual wield weapons, use haste boost, they attack faster, and often hit first after the reset, and get aggro. But not always, which results in a boss that turns around like crazy.
    If you have a lot of melee with imp.deception, you can turn red nameds to a whirling training dummy who rarely if ever hits back.
    Thats the way how even a weak melee can turn red named bosses vs maxed tanks.

    Edit: We tested it quite a few months ago (but saw it happen since then many times) with a dex based rog without DR breaker vs a good intimi tank. With improved deception, more often then not, the boss turned to the rogue in seconds, even if he let the tank beat it for half a minute. Without imp.deception, he never turned the red named boss...
    Last edited by Moltier; 11-08-2012 at 06:31 AM.
    Cannith
    Csodaszarvas
    Valyria - Hulkie - Sillymilly - Killberry - Silvyanna - Walour - Corgak - Thalrian-1

  13. #13
    Community Member Arkantios's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    161

    Default

    Yep I know about the red name thing and that's how I actually planned to take aggro, the. I have the chimera fang to possibly keep the aggro. Purple names I haven't tried yet, but I'm not too sure you're correct. I've taken aggro of the chrono end boss and Horoth numerous times by deception.
    XxMazexX the Rogue SneakATank, 27th Life, Completionist.

  14. #14
    Community Member Moltier's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Hungary, Budapest
    Posts
    779

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Arkantios View Post
    Yep I know about the red name thing and that's how I actually planned to take aggro, the. I have the chimera fang to possibly keep the aggro. Purple names I haven't tried yet, but I'm not too sure you're correct. I've taken aggro of the chrono end boss and Horoth numerous times by deception.
    If you somehow turn a boss every single time you fight with it, then its deception. But i never saw that happen vs good tanks. Sometimes a boss turned, but that was because the tank didnt have enough aggro. On the other hand, red nameds turn instantly when a rog touch them...

    Bonus: When im tanking on my barb, purple nameds never turn. Red nameds always turn when someone using imp. deception.
    Cannith
    Csodaszarvas
    Valyria - Hulkie - Sillymilly - Killberry - Silvyanna - Walour - Corgak - Thalrian-1

  15. #15
    Community Member Arkantios's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    161

    Default

    Eh, well ill have 10/15/20% incite on my side as well, so im hoping that helps me a tidge bit.
    XxMazexX the Rogue SneakATank, 27th Life, Completionist.

  16. #16
    The Hatchery
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    2,649

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Arkantios View Post
    Eh, well ill have 10/15/20% incite on my side as well, so im hoping that helps me a tidge bit.
    High incite will help, but you absolutely need a couple supporting party members who constantly keep the boss deceived and/or bluffed. Rogue DPS just isn't high enough without sneak attack.

  17. #17
    Community Member Arkantios's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    161

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Qezuzu View Post
    High incite will help, but you absolutely need a couple supporting party members who constantly keep the boss deceived and/or bluffed. Rogue DPS just isn't high enough without sneak attack.
    See that's another thing I'm trying to figure out: how many different ip deception items and effects would stack or increase the proc rate. Multiple worn items (golden guile/ring of house avithoul)? Multiple weapons? (emg/the dagger from the new raid)? Multiple actually clickie or passive effects (tier 5 shadow dancer autogrant/ bluff)? I'm incorporating most of these into my rogue to try and be able to do it by myself and not have to rely on people, though if people come with extra procs, awesome.
    XxMazexX the Rogue SneakATank, 27th Life, Completionist.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

This form's session has expired. You need to reload the page.

Reload