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  1. #181
    Community Member Postumus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyr View Post
    Guild members should be chosen based upon social factors and not game mechanics.
    This sums up my point of view. Well said.

  2. #182
    Community Member Hendrik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    I like your idea, but are we agreed that every guild should hit 100? I'm okay with it.
    I do not think that every Guild should be 100. But I do not think a Guild should stagnate in advancement, even if that advancement is small. 100 should be an achievable goal. It may take some longer then others, but so long as everyone is making progress I think we all would be happy.

    Gamers like to make progress, it is in our nature. If we are not making progress in what we are doing, even if that progress is small, we find something else.

    We = generic we.

    Quote Originally Posted by hsinclair
    I heard the devs hate all wizards, bards, clerics, fighters, and fuzzy bunnies and only want us to play halfling barbarian/paladin shuriken specialists!

    It's totally true, I have a reliable source. You better reroll now.
    Adventurer, Bug Reporter, Mournlander.

  3. #183
    Community Member Hendrik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Postumus View Post
    This sums up my point of view. Well said.
    Agreed.

    Well said Cyr.

    Quote Originally Posted by hsinclair
    I heard the devs hate all wizards, bards, clerics, fighters, and fuzzy bunnies and only want us to play halfling barbarian/paladin shuriken specialists!

    It's totally true, I have a reliable source. You better reroll now.
    Adventurer, Bug Reporter, Mournlander.

  4. #184
    Community Member Dysmetria's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ebuddy View Post
    Perhaps not every player should hit level 25 then.
    Many don't.

    Some prefer to TR over and over than to park in the current endgame, many others don't have the expansion, while still others, (like the one hour a week casuals that these guilds that are unable to level have a bunch of) will quit playing for good before they ever get there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tshober View Post
    If you want to include realms/nations (conglomerations of many guilds) and PvP into the equation then several games I have played had ways to lose realm/nation status. Not guild status though and not as an automated periodic decay.
    While it is true that with most all other guild reward systems there is no automated periodic decay for the guilds that are not active enough, for some, it is an all or nothing deal. Your guild/faction/whatever is large enough and has enough active players to capture/earn/whatever the benefits/status, or they are too small or have too few active members to do so.

    DDO eased that considerably by both adding the bonuses that allow small guilds to compete, and by allowing those guilds that earn the best rewards to share then with those that are unable to or choose not to via airship invites. Few other MMORPG guild reward systems offer even one of those two things.

  5. #185
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    Why would anyone ever take issue with anyone else's guild level. The success/failure of other guilds has zero bearing on my own guild's personal successes/failures.

    The failure of Turbine's renown system, however, has negatively affected my guild's enjoyment of their successes, and likely impeded that success due to the fact that "Life Happens."

  6. #186
    Uber Completionist
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    LVL 67 guild - 7 active members (6 prolly soon due to someone having RL issues).

    We have no problems with the renown, decay and reward system. Works alright for us. Maybe because we don't force ourselves to reach the top within a day. We play a lot and renown just comes naturally, and hence the growth.

    The only thing I would like to see changed is that certain things are a given on the ship like tavern, banker, mailbox and maybe access to auction house.

  7. #187
    Founder Warhulk's Avatar
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    I have a two person guild at level 27 and the only amenities I really use are the mailbox, tavern, navigator and when I can get it, the bank.

  8. #188
    Community Member Dysmetria's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    This is where my suggestion comes into play. Renown decay = 0. The only time you lose renown is kicking people (or them leaving just like current). People could then get a level and keep it. Kicking one or two people wouldnt be a big deal, but if some guild leader decided to get crazy and use the "come one come all" strategy to level the guild then boot everyone, they would be right back to low level.

    People would then not need to even think about removing a specific amount of people so they sit on the cusp of tiny or small guild status. They could level at their own pace, knowing that the renown earned isnt going anywhere, guild up with their friends, and not be worried that someone is going on vacation, needs a few weeks away from the game etc.
    Alternate solution: Leave renown and decay as is and get rid of all the airship buffs. Earning high guild levels only gets you better airships, all you can put in hookpoints is vendors and teleporters and alters and stuff to save you a bit of running and are available as soon as you can get your first airship. You no longer can invite nonguildies to an airship, chests can be added with permissions in place on who gets to loot from them settable by leaders and officers.

    Without the buffs, lower level content is no longer trivial, and earning high guild levels and getting the biggest airships just becomes a status symbol. Guilds still have something to continually work towards which is the intent of decay, and people don't have to wait another 5 minutes at the quest entrance when the last person joins only to say "SHP INV PLZ."

    People who want to run quests do so without running to the ship between practically every quest, people who want to socialize with their guild hang out on their ship, and most of all people can continue having all the casuals they want in their guilds without also wanting to be able to level up like the more active guilds.
    Last edited by Dysmetria; 10-16-2012 at 09:12 PM. Reason: double post

  9. #189
    Community Member Dysmetria's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hendrik View Post
    I do not think that every Guild should be 100. But I do not think a Guild should stagnate in advancement, even if that advancement is small. 100 should be an achievable goal. It may take some longer then others, but so long as everyone is making progress I think we all would be happy.

    Gamers like to make progress, it is in our nature. If we are not making progress in what we are doing, even if that progress is small, we find something else.

    We = generic we.
    100 is an achievable goal for every guild that has at least a few players who are actively working for it.

    To achieve that goal they simply have to get rid of their members who are not willing and/or able to help them achieve it.

    But we have had dozens of threads full of the same old complaints that are in this one for years now because some people want to have their cake and eat it too.

  10. #190
    Community Member Thayion516's Avatar
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    Stuck at level 64/65 guild due to a BAD guild decay/renown loss SYSTEM.

    This is the only MMO i know of that Rewards playing with LESS people and PENALIZES the Guild Leader when he/she manages dead accounts. Thats as backwards as it gets IMO.

    -Reduce Decay and make 60 Day inactive toons not count for any loss .. Dead should = Dead!, not Dead then all the sudden departed and counting against you. Get rid of the Departure mechanic, its awful.

    - Let the Guild Leader have tools to manage his/her guild properly! Let GL see accumulated Renown on each toon. Let them Flag officers with permissions for Guild Chest, Kicks, Recruitment.

    - IDK about size bonus. but it should be widened some IMO. Small 1-49, Med 50-124, Large 125+

    - ADD to the guild system! Guild Systems are 1 of the best player uniting parts of any MMO! Finish the Upper Teirs. Add a small "Player Appartment" to the top airship for each toon. Small instance room with a Chest or 2 for items. He11, Turbine could even put extra chests, weapons racks, Scroll racks, Animal pens, Potion Tables (All Storage units), in the DDO store for peeps to buy for each toon and MAKE MONEY on the idea. Id Buy some as storage is always a premium.

    Guilds are Awesome. Turbine, please look at refining your guild system.

  11. #191

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    Level 70, 29 Actives

    HATE might be too weak of word for my complete and utter disdain of the existing system.
    "The sword itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with swords."



  12. #192
    Community Member thunir's Avatar
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    Default Please adjust this system

    I lead a Small guild of 10 accounts, at level 82. I dont feel the current system helps support FUN game play. I do not recruit and teach new members because of the current Decay system. I would like to see a change in the current system.

  13. #193
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    To me the current system seems geard for the small very active guild, or even the solo player. In order to level my guild I have had to be very sellective of the players I let in. Daily players are what I look for. Once you hit high level a weakend player can never earn enough renown to make up for the decay that is applied to the guild for that account.
    We have 19 players in the guild now. I will be recruiting untill we have 28, but to keep growing the guild level some rules will apply to recruiting.
    No new to the game players.
    No weakend only players.
    No pvp active players.
    I would rather be able to take in new, or casual players, and offer guild help to ppl that would like to learn from more experianced players. So. I would say no I do not like the current sysetem set up.

  14. #194
    Community Member Dysmetria's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thayion516 View Post
    - Let the Guild Leader have tools to manage his/her guild properly! Let GL see accumulated Renown on each toon. Let them Flag officers with permissions for Guild Chest, Kicks, Recruitment.
    If GLs could see how much renown each toon earns they would be kicking those who earn more on average more than their accounts cause in decay simply because they had a slow day or month, as well as the alts of some of their most active player's mains. Then they would lose 25% of all the renown that character ever earned, (and quite possibly the same for all the other characters of that player as they removed the rest of their toons on bad terms,) resulting in an even bigger loss.

  15. #195
    Community Member Hendrik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dysmetria View Post
    100 is an achievable goal for every guild that has at least a few players who are actively working for it.

    To achieve that goal they simply have to get rid of their members who are not willing and/or able to help them achieve it.

    But we have had dozens of threads full of the same old complaints that are in this one for years now because some people want to have their cake and eat it too.
    Simply get rid of everyone in your Guild but a few if you want to make 100?!?!?!

    Kicking everyone to make use of small Guild bonus is harmful to the Guild and friendships made. Those same friends/members that helped make the Guild what it is before you kicked them all out.

    With respect, not a viable choice to kick out 80+ members.
    Last edited by Hendrik; 10-16-2012 at 09:01 PM.

    Quote Originally Posted by hsinclair
    I heard the devs hate all wizards, bards, clerics, fighters, and fuzzy bunnies and only want us to play halfling barbarian/paladin shuriken specialists!

    It's totally true, I have a reliable source. You better reroll now.
    Adventurer, Bug Reporter, Mournlander.

  16. #196
    Community Member SardaofChaos's Avatar
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    Leader of a guild of essentially 2. I don't like that I can't steadily increase in level, but also understand that I really shouldn't be expecting to in this case.

  17. #197
    Founder & Hero Jastron's Avatar
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    Default My opinion on the renown system

    I dislike the renown system even though we have gotten admittedly a good amount out of it so far.

    We have 38 active members and about 340 characters in total (some of these inactive).

    We hit Level 63 many months ago, which was my personal goal as it is a good level as stated previously by Thrudh, and I feel that we achieved it only slightly slower than I'd like. However, even some of our most casual members want us to hit level 70 and we have some large guild slot items in the guild that are going unused. At this point, to hit 70 may not be feasible without booting the more casual members who logon only a couple times a month to play for a few hours.

    So the reason for the dislike is primarily due to causing tension when a more casual person who may be great to hang out with wants to join the guild. Do we accept them and accept the additional burden to our renown, or do we turn them down to help us gain or maintain our level, at the cost to both the server community and the DDO community as a whole?

    For the record we have not made that decision yet, but we are getting close to needing to make that choice, and we may have to consider renown when making the choice for a new prospect in the coming year.

    I'm unsure how to address the issue, but I don't feel that the current Renown system encourages guild growth and acceptance of casual players into an established high level guild.
    On Sarlona: Justin, Bry, Karoneth, Koto, Combatant, Kendu, Narnak, Mythanthor, Jastron, Brendin.
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  18. #198
    Community Member Dysmetria's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hendrik View Post
    Simply get rid of everyone in your Guild but a few if you want to make 100?!?!?!

    Kicking everyone to make use of small Guild bonus is harmful to the Guild and friendships made. Those same friends/members that helped make the Guild what it is before you kicked them all out.

    With respect, not a viable choice to kick out 80+ members.
    I didn't say kick them out to make use of the small guild bonus. Larger guilds have gotten to 100, but nearly all of their members had to be actively helping them to reach that goal rather than hindering them. In the case of the lower level guilds, you are correct that the casuals "helped make the Guild what it is," a guild that can not reach the high levels it's active members want it to.

    No friendships need to be harmed in the process. Form a sister guild for those casuals and use a chat channel to communicate for grouping purposes. Those casuals can also use that channel to get invites to the high level airship for the best buffs their being in a sister guild helped the main guild attain.

  19. #199
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    I like your idea, but are we agreed that every guild should hit 100? I'm okay with it.
    Wouldnt bother me if everyone hit 100. The primary reason decay needs to be tossed is so people can choose to guild with their friends, and no game mechanics would be in the way making it disadvantageous to do so. The social aspect is what keeps people playing the same game. People might be drawn to DDO due to the D&D name, cool graphics that bring pen and paper monsters to life, or fast paced combat, but its the social aspect that keeps them here. A no decay system also wouldnt favor anyone over anyone else. All this talk about the system favoring X size guild due to Y renown game mechanic would just die off, and people can game with their friends, uninhibited.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  20. #200
    Community Member Falco_Easts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tshober View Post
    I have not seen any stated position from the devs on this issue either. However, the Build Your Guild event that they ran prior to the MotU expansion had, as its stated goals, many of the things that those of us who want change here are asking for. Unfortunately, that event was pretty flawed in its implementation and did not really achieve the stated goal of helping out guilds that help out new players. What it really did was help out guilds that reincarnate a lot. The problem is they did not have the courage to attack the heart of the problem, renown decay, directly. Instead they tried to put a bandage on it with bonuses after the damage had already been done. Even so, this still gives me some hope that the devs recognize there is a problem and are looking for a solution.
    Decay is not the heart of the problem, renown itself is.

    They should have made it a spendable commodity like pp and the buffs are bought with it. People keep comparing renown to XP whereas I think it should be more akin to currency. We have plat sinks in the game and I think the buffs should be changed to a renown sink.

    Step 1 - Keep renown as it currently is in game, remove the decay and buffs associated with it. Rewards guild at various levels with access to guild notice boards, uniform skins, guild mailing etc… Nothing that gives an advantage over non guilded players, purely bragging rights stuff.
    Step 2 – Add Guild Currency earned the same way renown is. This does not go into you inventory but straight into the guild’s bank. Officers can then use t his to buy buffs. Every buff available to every guild but the top level ones cost a lot more. In theory a small guild could have a 5%XP shrine but would have to forego other buffs to be able to afford it.
    A friend will bail you out of jail.
    A mate will be sitting in there beside you saying "Damn that was awsome!!!"

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