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  1. #41
    The Hatchery
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post

    Lay On Hands is ridiculously overpowered if you twist in Endless Lay On Hands (tier 3 unyielding sentinel) which I do.

    Nerf Paladins!

  2. #42

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    Yeah, I have to add the cleave line as an optional to the original build. To be honest I forgot, but I'll get to it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Inouk View Post
    To the OP, nice build. Is it pretty much solo only? Is the DPS lacking enough that the build is "gimp" in groups? Do you solo EH, EE? Just trying to get a feel for what to expect in case I try a pally life at some point.
    I've not tried to solo EE, and assume this would be terrible at it.

    eHard, however, is a breeze to solo. I took him pure solo (no hire) through the entire expansion pack, all three chains, on eHard for bravery and had no trouble in any of the quests. This isn't really a boast, as most people consider that to be easy content, but it's a reassurance that this build does meet the very low bar of "can easily solo eHard without a hire."

    I admit I did die a couple times, but only in the very last quest, and only because of that quest mechanic where true soloing without a hire and no panther means guaranteed death. (Touching the wall.) Even still, that quest was an easy completion. Also worth noting is that I was in an off-destiny for pretty much all of that questing, IIRC.

    It parties well enough, but if you find yourself in a group that needs a tank or is full of rogues looking for you to hold aggro you'll have some issues. In just regular parties where you don't need a dedicated aggro-holder or where there is another SD or DoS to handle that role you do fine.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    Yeah, I have to add the cleave line as an optional to the original build. To be honest I forgot, but I'll get to it.

    I've not tried to solo EE, and assume this would be terrible at it.

    eHard, however, is a breeze to solo. I took him pure solo (no hire) through the entire expansion pack, all three chains, on eHard for bravery and had no trouble in any of the quests. This isn't really a boast, as most people consider that to be easy content, but it's a reassurance that this build does meet the very low bar of "can easily solo eHard without a hire."

    I admit I did die a couple times, but only in the very last quest, and only because of that quest mechanic where true soloing without a hire and no panther means guaranteed death. (Touching the wall.) Even still, that quest was an easy completion. Also worth noting is that I was in an off-destiny for pretty much all of that questing, IIRC.

    It parties well enough, but if you find yourself in a group that needs a tank or is full of rogues looking for you to hold aggro you'll have some issues. In just regular parties where you don't need a dedicated aggro-holder or where there is another SD or DoS to handle that role you do fine.
    Good info thx. Able to solo EH is plenty good enough for me. If DPS is good enough to contribute meaningfully to a group then I may try something like on this in a future life =)

  4. #44
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    Default To Inouk (and everyone in general)

    I've been playing for exactly 3 days, and I'm level 2 Pal 1 Rog.

    I've soloed every quest in the starting town on elite difficulty using a Cleric hireling (primarily for the quest where you must keep a friendly NPC alive - only thing I've found difficult about the game is how best to target friendly NPCs and have my hireling do the same - it was literally impossible for me to keep the NPC alive without the Cleric).

    I'm now in the wilderness area and I'm at the stage where I need to kill 350 more things (for 750 total). I hope this eventually opens up Hard level here, otherwise I don't understand how you do. I'm still working on doing all the quests here on elite difficulty.

    I have just shy of 2000pp - I have no concept of the economy or what I should be saving to sell once I reach an Auction House (I assume this can only be found off the starting island?). Hopefully 5000pp is a decent start for the AH, because I should be there easily once I finish all the Elite Wilderness Quests.

    The only real weakness I've noticed is my Sneak Attack misses frequently and seems a tad pointless because I have no issues toe-to-toe with anything.

    Anyway, thanks everyone for the help. The free content in this game is amazing in my opinion, and is far better than Diablo 3. And free. The only suggestion I have for anyone starting is to think about what you want to be and find a guide like this one to follow. Fantastic job here on what I personally call the "Indiana Jones" build.

    I'm thinking of making a Cleric healer who does nothing but group to heal others; does anyone know of a similar guide for doing that? Great community on these boards, and very refreshing.
    Last edited by forgoil; 10-31-2012 at 12:18 PM.

  5. #45
    Community Member Nodoze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    ...I was in an off-destiny ...It parties well enough...
    That brings up a good point in that I never saw any mention of the actual Epic Destinies you recommend.

    Can you add a section for what Epic Destiny(s) & twists you recommend (and denote if you recommend different EDs/twists when solo verses with a party) ?

    Also, when solo'ing and getting swarmed do you have much of a problem getting off your cures without Quicken? I noted you upped your concentration but was concerned that Quicken would be required to heal against multiple mobs without being interrupted. If you do get interrupted I was curious how often you have to cast multiple times to get off a cure. I did see the references to LoHs but even with regenerating LoHs I was still worried that cures would be critical to be no fail.
    Last edited by Nodoze; 10-31-2012 at 02:42 PM. Reason: clarify question...

  6. #46
    Community Member Kinerd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by forgoil View Post
    I'm now in the wilderness area and I'm at the stage where I need to kill 350 more things (for 750 total). I hope this eventually opens up Hard level here, otherwise I don't understand how you do. I'm still working on doing all the quests here on elite difficulty.
    There is no way to make a wilderness go to a different difficulty level. Maxing out the kills, as you have probably noticed, is pretty tedious and unrewarding anyway.
    I'm thinking of making a Cleric healer who does nothing but group to heal others; does anyone know of a similar guide for doing that? Great community on these boards, and very refreshing.
    All you want for a heal build is to take the Empower Heal feat: this soups up your healing spells and unlocks the Radiant Servant Prestige Enhancement, which is incredible. The only other feats that have even a slight impact on healing ability are Quicken (because Mass Heal takes a looooong time to cast, although this is not necessarily a problem) and technically Extra Turning (because RS uses Turns for ammo). Generally I would recommend against taking XTurn, but if you think it sounds fun go for it. You will accomplish your goal.

    The traditional debate is what else to do besides healing: melee or offensive casting, and select feats based on that. I would urge you to look over the offensive casting cleric options and follow those feats even if you don't intend to offensive cast. You will find that you'll be able to squeeze them in from time to time without impinging on your healing ability at all (or cast them pretty regularly while only impinging on your healing ability a bit), and your offensive casting ceiling is a million billion times higher than your melee ceiling on a traditional cleric.

  7. #47
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by forgoil View Post
    I'm thinking of making a Cleric healer who does nothing but group to heal others; does anyone know of a similar guide for doing that?
    sirgog's cleric thread is badly outdated, but the basics haven't changed that much since Radiant Servant came out. Also check out phaleo's cleric guide. Personally I think pure healbots are a waste of potential, as any properly built cleric should be capable of offensive spells and/or melee as well as healing. [Working in all three is a bit trickier, but not impossible.]

  8. #48
    Community Member Nodoze's Avatar
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    Trying to get back on topic on this build rather than other advice. Never say the following answered and figured they got lost in the tangent:

    Can you add a section for what Epic Destiny(s) & twists you recommend (and denote if you recommend different EDs/twists when solo verses with a party) ?

    Also, when solo'ing and getting swarmed do you have much of a problem getting off your cures without Quicken? I noted you upped your concentration but was concerned that Quicken would be required to heal against multiple mobs without being interrupted. If you do get interrupted I was curious how often you have to cast multiple times to get off a cure. I did see the references to LoHs but even with regenerating LoHs I was still worried that cures would be critical to be no fail.

  9. #49

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    Sorry, Hurricane Sandy knocked me offline for 8 days. (Sucks for me that I missed half of Mabar this year.)

    I will be ending in Fury of the Wild, but haven't gotten there so other than sense weakness I'm not sure what works best yet. My original plan, which I'm currently still following (up to Shirardi 1 so far) is:

    Exalted Angel 3
    Unyielding Sentinel 4
    Grandmaster of Flowers 3
    Shadowdancer 2
    Legendary Dreadnaught 4
    Shirardi Champion 3
    Fury of the Wild 5

    3+4+3+2+4+3+5=24 / 3 = 8 fate points

    Twist #1: Endless Lay On Hands (tier 3 Unyielding Sentinel, 6 fate points)
    Twist #2: Brace for Impact (tier 1 Unyielding Sentinel, 2 fate points)

    I'm undecided on a third twist, if I even want to bother. One of the +6 reflex save twists looks pretty good, but meh.



    As for no-fail healing, my concentration is a little over 50 so I have little trouble getting them off while swarmed. If you're swarmed by mobs doing 50+ damage per swing you're probably not going to be able to heal yourself out of that even with quicken, since that will amount to hundreds of damage per second.

    The first time I failed a concentration check was in Reign of Madness elite. Those xorian renders hit hard. In my solo run through the expansion on eHard I don't remember failing a concentration check, but I do recall that letting yourself get swarmed by drow can be a quick death sentence because they spam that paralysis poison on you. Good saves help but you will end up paralyzed and killed if you let yourself get swarmed. It's not hard to manage the fights to keep them down to 3 or 4 at a time, though.

  10. #50
    Community Member Nodoze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    Sorry, Hurricane Sandy knocked me offline for 8 days. (Sucks for me that I missed half of Mabar this year.)

    I will be ending in Fury of the Wild, but haven't gotten there so other than sense weakness I'm not sure what works best yet. My original plan, which I'm currently still following (up to Shirardi 1 so far) is:

    Exalted Angel 3
    Unyielding Sentinel 4
    Grandmaster of Flowers 3
    Shadowdancer 2
    Legendary Dreadnaught 4
    Shirardi Champion 3
    Fury of the Wild 5

    3+4+3+2+4+3+5=24 / 3 = 8 fate points

    Twist #1: Endless Lay On Hands (tier 3 Unyielding Sentinel, 6 fate points)
    Twist #2: Brace for Impact (tier 1 Unyielding Sentinel, 2 fate points)

    I'm undecided on a third twist, if I even want to bother. One of the +6 reflex save twists looks pretty good, but meh.

    As for no-fail healing, my concentration is a little over 50 so I have little trouble getting them off while swarmed. If you're swarmed by mobs doing 50+ damage per swing you're probably not going to be able to heal yourself out of that even with quicken, since that will amount to hundreds of damage per second.

    The first time I failed a concentration check was in Reign of Madness elite. Those xorian renders hit hard. In my solo run through the expansion on eHard I don't remember failing a concentration check, but I do recall that letting yourself get swarmed by drow can be a quick death sentence because they spam that paralysis poison on you. Good saves help but you will end up paralyzed and killed if you let yourself get swarmed. It's not hard to manage the fights to keep them down to 3 or 4 at a time, though.
    Very sorry to hear you got knocked off line and missed much of the event but really glad you are OK.

    Thanks for sharing the info on the ED & concentration (very cool that rogue allowed you to get full ranks in UMD on top of full concentration)! ED -wise that sounds like a very detailed plan and you are almost there. Fury Adrenaline powered Smites sound very fun so it would be great to hear back what your thoughts are once you get there.

    Thanks again for sharing the build in the first place and confirming it can solo the expansion on E-Hard. I personally like Paladins and the more viable options we get out there the better!

  11. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nodoze View Post
    Fury Adrenaline powered Smites sound very fun so it would be great to hear back what your thoughts are once you get there.
    I've "finished" my destinies for a while now, just using the basic 2-twist plan of endless LOH and brace for impact with fury as the active destiny. If I ever bother to get that third twist, it will be endless smiting, no question.

    Adrenaline'd exalted smites are crazy, ridiculously good. My only issue right now is that my adrenaline refills much faster than my smites, which is why I want endless smiting. Happily, adrenaline'd divine sacrifices are also really good, and divine sacrifice pretty much never runs out so I just switch to those while waiting for a smite to recharge.

    I've also switched over to bloodletting weapons, greatly reducing the number of weapon swaps. This has been a marked improvement in "quality of life," with much less busywork clicking. Before I had an elf weapon, an aberration weapon, a demon beater, etc... and would be swapping between all of them like a crazy person during much of the xpack fights. (A drow! A drider! A dretch! All at once!! Gah!!!)

    Now I just swing away with my bloodletter without a care in the world, swapping from holy to force for neutral mobs. I updated the gear post to list my weapons, and boy am I excited for risia so I can icy burst them.

  12. #52
    Community Member Torkzed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by forgoil View Post

    The only real weakness I've noticed is my Sneak Attack misses frequently and seems a tad pointless because I have no issues toe-to-toe with anything.
    Forgoil,

    If you are soloing, you may want to be aware that sneak attack works best when you do not have agro. If the monster knows you are there, isn't blind, and isn't agro'ed on something else, you will not get sneak attack damage. (see the ddowiki page on sneak attack for the details)

    Sometimes when soloing, you can use a summoned monster to get agro, or at higher levels you can get a weapon that has a chance of blinding.

    Overall on this build, though, any sneak attack damage is just gravy. Don't really count on it.


    To OP -- I like the build. My very first character was similar, but I went TWF. That forced even more choices on stats, and he is a little gimp to this day, but I did level him to 20. I think that is mainly poor choices on enhancements, and dreadful gear. Maybe with a little more attention, he could be halfway decent. I went WF Sorc on my second character and have concentrated on arcanes ever since.

  13. #53
    Community Member Fedora's Avatar
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    Great build and ideas here. Paladin is one of favorite classes and I solo almost exclusively.

    The only real weakness I've noticed is my Sneak Attack misses frequently and seems a tad pointless because I have no issues toe-to-toe with anything.
    Try using bluff first. If it works, you have several seconds for a sneak attack hit.

  14. #54
    Community Member Sarzor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Torkzed View Post
    Forgoil,

    If you are soloing, you may want to be aware that sneak attack works best when you do not have agro. If the monster knows you are there, isn't blind, and isn't agro'ed on something else, you will not get sneak attack damage. (see the ddowiki page on sneak attack for the details)

    Sometimes when soloing, you can use a summoned monster to get agro, or at higher levels you can get a weapon that has a chance of blinding.

    Overall on this build, though, any sneak attack damage is just gravy. Don't really count on it.


    To OP -- I like the build. My very first character was similar, but I went TWF. That forced even more choices on stats, and he is a little gimp to this day, but I did level him to 20. I think that is mainly poor choices on enhancements, and dreadful gear. Maybe with a little more attention, he could be halfway decent. I went WF Sorc on my second character and have concentrated on arcanes ever since.
    I found items with deception on them to work very well, in particular the upgraded ring of lies.

    I just finished this life, and have to say it went very smooth. As a whole I could tell my dps was lower than other melees, but the ability to solo and be the last man standing in a wipe was quite nice. I died very few times this life, and most of them are directly attributable to lag or pure impatience on my part.

  15. #55
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    Default Not enofe points

    Did they raise improved recovery 2 to or what?
    I know this is a old post but should still work I think?
    Or should I wait till rank 2 in lvl 2 to get devotion?
    Last edited by sulka79; 01-02-2013 at 06:44 PM.

  16. #56

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    Quote Originally Posted by sulka79 View Post
    Did they raise improved recovery 2 to or what?
    I know this is a old post but should still work I think?
    Or should I wait till rank 2 in lvl 2 to get devotion?
    You get 4 AP per level. Level 1 lists the following enhancements:

    1 Rogue Haste Boost I
    1 Human Versatility I
    1 Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
    ---
    3 AP total

    This leaves you with an extra AP that you "bank" for future use. Now at level 2, the following enhancements are listed:

    1 Paladin Toughness I
    1 Paladin Extra Smite Evil I
    2 Human Improved Recovery I
    1 Paladin Devotion I
    ---
    5 AP (8 total including level 1's)

    The enhancements are listed in order to take them, as opposed to how the character planner displays them. (I believe it does it alphabetically.) Meaning if you just took extra smite I, you need to wait until you have 2 AP before you can take improved recovery I.

    I think there are a couple times where you might end up having to bank many points. This is by design. Usually it's before you take a 6 AP enhancement like improved recovery III, but also it tends to happen as you approach prestige levels. (7, 14 and 20 in this build.)

    To answr more specifically, you take improved recovery I at rank 3 of level 2.

  17. #57
    Community Member Fedora's Avatar
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    I'm guessing you took Rouge 2 at level 8 in order to get the Paladin HotD at 7? Do you see any advantage/disadvanatge to taking both rogue levels early (level 1 and 2)? I am thinking of getting the skills and evasion right away. Is the trade off decent or is there something else to consider besides waiting one more level for HotD?

    EDIT - Just answered my own question:

    Essentially, race to Hunter of the Dead I in time for delera's and necro1 with bravery and then take evasion.
    Still, evasion is nice even at low levels.... Hmmm. Decisions, decisions....
    Last edited by Fedora; 01-03-2013 at 06:46 AM.

  18. #58
    Community Member Nodoze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fedora View Post
    ...Do you see any advantage/disadvanatge to taking both rogue levels early (level 1 and 2)? I am thinking of getting the skills and evasion right away. Is the trade off decent or is there something else to consider besides waiting one more level for HotD?...
    As a Paladin fan I really like the focus of this build & think it is especially good for newer players and fully support it.

    I haven't done this build but from my other builds with Rogue splashes (18wiz/Rogue2) it is very important to take the second level of Rogue later to "catch up" on skills that were not class skills on the main class.

    In the case of an 18 wizard trying to max all of the core Rogue skills it is a big deal and having a maxed Int allows a bunch of catch up on skills later. In this case with only a 10 int it is less important but it will still help you max your UMD & get decent Open Locks without wasting skill points. Assuming you maxed UMD & Open Locks at level 1, then at level 2 you can only pump 1 more point into UMD & Open Lock at level 2 and would have to dump skill points into skills that are not being emphasized... Taking the 2nd Rogue level later per the recommended approach allows you to end up with a maxed Concentration (Paladin class skill) and UMD (not a Paladin class skill) & a decent Open Locks for normal use.

    I also have found that even on my WF wizard/rogue with a great-axe melee at the lower levels was plenty of power and evasion wasn't really needed until later.
    Last edited by Nodoze; 01-03-2013 at 10:43 AM.

  19. #59
    Community Member Fedora's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nodoze View Post
    I haven't done this build but from my other builds with Rogue splashes (18wiz/Rogue2) it is very important to take the second level of Rogue later to "catch up" on skills that were not class skills on the main class.
    I tried this build in the DDO Caracter Generator taking both rogue levels up front and I see what you said is 100% correct. Thanks for the explanation!

  20. #60
    Community Member Nodoze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fedora View Post
    I tried this build in the DDO Caracter Generator taking both rogue levels up front and I see what you said is 100% correct. Thanks for the explanation!
    No problem, glad to help. Just doing what I can to see more good Paladins in game !
    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    I've "finished" my destinies for a while now, just using the basic 2-twist plan of endless LOH and brace for impact with fury as the active destiny. If I ever bother to get that third twist, it will be endless smiting, no question.

    Adrenaline'd exalted smites are crazy, ridiculously good. My only issue right now is that my adrenaline refills much faster than my smites, which is why I want endless smiting. Happily, adrenaline'd divine sacrifices are also really good, and divine sacrifice pretty much never runs out so I just switch to those while waiting for a smite to recharge. ...
    For another third twist alternative, since Adrenaline'd Divine Sacrifices are also really good one thing you might consider is dropping 'Force of Personality' and taking Cleave and then twisting 'Momentum Swing' from Legendary Dreadnought. It should give you a nice AOE DPS capability and gives you something to spam in addition to Divine Sacrifice while waiting for Adrenaline and Smites to recharge... You may find you like it so much that you try to also fit in Great Cleave but Cleave may be enough. For Great Cleave, if your Stuns aren't landing anyway, you could trade Stunning blow. If your Stuns are landing you could drop Extend as you likely already got used to having to refresh Pally buffs without extend from 1-21 anyway...

    I don't know if you can use extra charges to Adrenalize Momentum Swings instead of Divine Sacrifices for AOE "stars" goodness but am curious now.

    If that twist theme ends up working well you could consider slotting Exceptional Fortification & a Fortification guild augment gem and trading 'Brace for impact' for 'Lay Waste'. I am not sure if there are enough fate points available yet but regardless it gives you an excuse to grind out the rest of the destinies and the new ones that are added...

    If your saves are already good enough that should up your DPS (especially AOE DPS) which should help both when solo'ing groups of mobs and may be better if you are running with group who has things locked down with Crowd Control specialist...
    Last edited by Nodoze; 01-03-2013 at 11:35 AM.

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