Page 2 of 7 FirstFirst 123456 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 135
  1. #21
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    417

    Default

    One other thing that could help is training people to lead quest groups well. Wish I could be more precise, but I'm fumbling with this one myself. So far, my general observations/conclusions are:

    There are few things less exciting than dictating exactly what to do to the raid group. I imagine it's as unexciting, if not worse, to the others who're running through a very nice quest for the first time, and hearing only 'Go here, do this, no don't touch that button! Awww sh**' from the party leader.

    One other thing I've run into when leading quests, especially raids, is that I'm not particularly familiar with them. Oh, I'll know the general 'do this, do that', but I won't know enough about every single party role to be able to appropriately improvise when things go topsy-turvy. And they do, when you often have never seen 8-10 of the people in your raid before. This is especially the case for the end fight in CitW. I'm not sure why, but even on normal it seems like maybe 5-10% of the time you'll get a group that, while otherwise quite competent, just gets flattened during the first battle with portal keepers. Seems to happen more often when I'm leader than when I'm just tagging along. Part of the problem for that particular raid could be that I got in on the action late, so the 'best' way to run the raid was already established and there was little exploration going on anymore. I know I've had excessive difficulty trying to persuade PUG groups to try things a different way, just to test things out. I can't blame them. I probably wouldn't really want to potentially give up a completion because somebody wanted to 'try something different', either.

    Sooo yeah. Working on addressing these two issues now. Any suggestions would be welcome.
    Cannith, Slicing Blow. Vilenna (18/1/1 Clonkard), Marvala (20 monk), Phrenia (19/1 rogue/fighter), Malchara (12/6/2 AA), Denaria (18/2 ...wonk?)

  2. #22
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    84

    Default

    There used to be great leaders on Cannith. However they got fed up with the bs drama queens and their "i´m perfect i dont have to listen to anyone cuz i can solo everything" behavior years ago. These "soloist" people, for the most part, doesnt have what it takes to be a successful leader...so they fail trying then blame others for not listening when they try to "teach" people something. If you´d listened then you wouldn´t have to make that post now.

    Think about it.

    If you do not have what it takes to be a leader, do not try to impress people by leading groups. If you´re bent on trying to teach others something in order to hide your own flaws, you´re bound to fail. Thats why Cannith as server failed. Thats why people on Cannith are bent on drama and selfcentered views on how things should be instead of progressive teamwork.

    If you want to be a good leader you´ll have to be able to take a step back and detach yourself from the center of the universe, you need to be able to listen, you need to be able to trust others enough and their abilities aswell as their good intentions to be successful. Management by fear never works, get used to it. You´ll have to learn patience while being able to inspire greatness in others. Great leaders make everyone in their team better at what they do while getting them to work towards the same goal and in the end prevail, no matter the odds. They are even able to get people to understand that you dont have to like eachother to do this task, you´re here and now we work together on this project. If you dont like it or your ego cant handle that, GTFO!

    If this is hard for you to understand, then you shouldnt lead anyone ever.


    Pyreal af Templar
    Last edited by Barnaky; 10-13-2012 at 01:49 AM.

  3. #23
    Community Member MiahooJunk's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    1,141

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Barnaky View Post
    snip
    I'm sorry, but imo the 'elitist leader' is not the one to blame.

    I remember doing elite ToD back then, when a guildie heals the tank the quest complete with ease. But when a pugger do the healing, we repeatedly wipe. Why???

    Another example is HoX. When trying to pug it, and after giving orders to people, you end up with all of them staying in the middle staring at you. no one heal the pups, and the quest fail.

    Another example is shroud part 2.


    People need to know, when they join a guild run, no matter how good u know the quest, you'll do your role THEIR WAY. Take the orders, say if u dont understand them (or if u can't fulfil the role) and do it their way!
    You might as well learn something new.
    Last edited by MiahooJunk; 10-15-2012 at 01:19 PM.
    ~Miahoo all around!~

    To all my friends: I Troll! Deal with it! You still hate me!

  4. #24
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    84

    Default

    You, Mia, need to understand that alot of "elitist" people (or elitist wannabe) have been, for a very long time, deliberatly trying to ruin pug runs just so they can post the things you´ve just did. By doing so look good in guild/harbour chat. That type of attitude is what the Cannith server has come to be known by. You shouldn´t blame random puggers for that. You should blame a very select few guilds and their hangarounds.

    See it´s not always the healers fault, dps on Cannith sucks tbh. So instead of wising up they blame the healer. Puggers get more heat then guildies, on average, no matter how good you are. No matter how you perform. Though, to alot of people it´s a matter of pots. Why pay 20-30k plat for a pot when you know the elitist jerks gonna do their thing forcing you to use as many as possible just so they can have their way?

    As soon as you get this the sooner Cannith as server can start to heal.


    Pyreal af Templar

  5. #25
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    417

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Barnaky View Post
    You, Mia, need to understand that alot of "elitist" people (or elitist wannabe) have been, for a very long time, deliberatly trying to ruin pug runs just so they can post the things you´ve just did. By doing so look good in guild/harbour chat. That type of attitude is what the Cannith server has come to be known by. You shouldn´t blame random puggers for that. You should blame a very select few guilds and their hangarounds.

    See it´s not always the healers fault, dps on Cannith sucks tbh. So instead of wising up they blame the healer. Puggers get more heat then guildies, on average, no matter how good you are. No matter how you perform. Though, to alot of people it´s a matter of pots. Why pay 20-30k plat for a pot when you know the elitist jerks gonna do their thing forcing you to use as many as possible just so they can have their way?

    As soon as you get this the sooner Cannith as server can start to heal.


    Pyreal af Templar
    Entirely disagree. When you have a bad leader, it is painfully obvious. Reputations have a way of spreading.
    Server-wide generalities such as 'healer' vs 'dps' being 'bad' are a bit odd to make, don't you think? I suspect Miahoo's point is more that you can PUG out melee more easily than you can PUG out a lone healer spot. A bit less DPS won't really kill the raid. A healer that is very slow on the trigger can (though certainly there are folks with enough self-healing that they can compensate for this). If Miahoo is having uniformly bad experiences with PUGs, though, (s)he may want to rethink how the raid is being explained.
    My experience with PUG slots other guilds have allowed in their runs have generally been very good. Yes, they do give instructions, and yes, they do expect you to follow them. And yes, if you join -their- run, don't you think you'd best make an effort to follow the PL's instructions? Otherwise, why are you joining their run? If you prefer to run things your own way, make your own run and let someone else have that party slot. If you have a pot limit, state up front when you join so there's no room for misunderstanding. All cards on the table. There's really no need for secrecy, y'know?

    ...that said, I freely admit to occasionally being ignored as PL. I think from time to time I'm relegated to 'that crazy' off in the corner.
    Which actually isn't so bad!
    Last edited by sandypaws; 10-16-2012 at 07:52 AM.
    Cannith, Slicing Blow. Vilenna (18/1/1 Clonkard), Marvala (20 monk), Phrenia (19/1 rogue/fighter), Malchara (12/6/2 AA), Denaria (18/2 ...wonk?)

  6. #26
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    84

    Default

    Apples and oranges. It´s not the same.

    Other than that, sounds like you´re trying to put words in my mouth Vilenna.

    What gave you that right?


    Pyreal af Templar

  7. #27
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    417

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Barnaky View Post
    Apples and oranges. It´s not the same.

    Other than that, sounds like you´re trying to put words in my mouth Vilenna.

    What gave you that right?


    Pyreal af Templar
    I'm sorry if there has been any possible way my response could have been interpreted as putting words in your mouth. I wouldn't dream of presuming.
    Cannith, Slicing Blow. Vilenna (18/1/1 Clonkard), Marvala (20 monk), Phrenia (19/1 rogue/fighter), Malchara (12/6/2 AA), Denaria (18/2 ...wonk?)

  8. #28
    Community Member nicnivyn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    California, United States
    Posts
    151

    Default

    Perhaps we could now get back to the actual point of this thread - finding ways to improve the server, and help the people who play here who actually want help.

    Pointing fingers and throwing generalized accusations is counter productive and already been done a million times.

    Move on and motivate. The reason no one seems to see the good is because it's soooooo much more fun to focus on the negative, the 'bads', the 'elitists', the 'noobs' - whatever your particular ragefest of the moment happens to be.
    Goddess! You know it baybee.

    Nissha - Chanteuse - Zealotry - Zealot - Zeal
    Leader, High Rollers (Cannith)

  9. #29
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    417

    Default

    What about joint guild runs? Instead of having guild night (or in addition to guild night), have a night where one of the larger/more established guilds hauls two or three smaller/less established guilds off into raids. Slightly different dynamic than pugging out slots, especially if the critical spots aren't necessarily held by the main guild folks. Or maybe the main guild would just have a backup for those spots. It would certainly help us less-experienced folk get to a point where we'd be comfortable leading raids.
    Cannith, Slicing Blow. Vilenna (18/1/1 Clonkard), Marvala (20 monk), Phrenia (19/1 rogue/fighter), Malchara (12/6/2 AA), Denaria (18/2 ...wonk?)

  10. #30
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    84

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nicnivyn View Post
    Perhaps we could now get back to the actual point of this thread - finding ways to improve the server, and help the people who play here who actually want help.

    Pointing fingers and throwing generalized accusations is counter productive and already been done a million times.
    A million and one times. So, whats your suggestion/s?


    Vilenna is on to something. But it shouldnt be a teacher/student "relationship". Just drop the attitude make this event happen and go from there. If you presume that everyone around you have to be perfect, or taught, according to your belief/s and/or likings and you can do no wrong while are perfect in every way...well then this wount work.

    If you two are serious about this then you make this happen. IF not then you only trying to find ways to look good on a random forum. Same goes for the other Cannith players.


    Pyreal af Templar

  11. #31
    Community Member nicnivyn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    California, United States
    Posts
    151

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Barnaky View Post
    A million and one times. So, whats your suggestion/s?
    The High Rollers are dedicated to giving back to the Cannith community. We often host 'guided tours' - fully voice led quests and raids open to all, where we encourage new people to join us and even take on role like 'tank' with no pressure for 'poor' performance (they are new after all).

    We have guild raids 3 times a week at set times and again, welcome anyone who hits the lfm for our open spots regardless of build or 'gimpness'. We run those on multiple difficulties including epic elite with whomever joins.

    Every year we also host the High Rollers Festivult giveaway, where we collect things throughout the year and then host raid groups for new and lowbie players where we give away named items (like Sunblades, Muckbanes), stat items (+4 or +6 con/wis/str etc items), armor, tomes, weapons, consumables, and many other things. Last year we also received donations for the give-away from many people and guilds who also embraced the idea of giving back and helping new folks have a more enjoyable DDO experience.

    You will never see a High Roller posting about how cool they are, or they did this EE quest or raid, or 'look how uber my itemz are!'. We really focus on being dependable, approachable, and fun.

    So what have YOU done for your server lately?

    Edit: My apologies if this post seems braggy, but the question was asked. And I think my point is, these are all things that we do. They are all things that anyone can do as well. In fact we greatly encourage people to give back in as many ways and as often as they can think of.

    A very simple thing, for instance, is instead of telling that noob with no heavy fort in shroud that they're a noob - quietly pass them 20 tapestry pieces and send them a tell with instructions on how to get a minos.

    It's easy to do, and greatly more satisfying than getting your heart rate up for 5 seconds yelling at them.
    Last edited by nicnivyn; 10-16-2012 at 10:31 PM.
    Goddess! You know it baybee.

    Nissha - Chanteuse - Zealotry - Zealot - Zeal
    Leader, High Rollers (Cannith)

  12. #32
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    417

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Barnaky View Post
    Vilenna is on to something. But it shouldnt be a teacher/student "relationship".
    Depends on how you define the teacher/student relationship. (I suspect you are refering to a holier-than-thou dynamic?)

    Ideally, I'd like a relationship in which the 'student' learns through guided discovery, rather than being led by the nose. A teacher could be the safety net, rather than the leash. I think this is entirely possible, though it certainly would require a great deal more patience.

    As for -me- being the teacher? At this point, that'd be a bit like a fish trying to explain farming to a squid. Nonetheless, I'll be hosting some 'for-fun, think different' CitW raids this week in various incarnations or other. Maybe try some new things. Hopefully it'll work, maybe it won't. Hope to see you folks out there.

    Edit: If any of you folks might consider sister-guild runs with Slicing Blow, it'd be awesome! Hint. Hint. Superstronghint.
    Last edited by sandypaws; 10-16-2012 at 11:02 PM.
    Cannith, Slicing Blow. Vilenna (18/1/1 Clonkard), Marvala (20 monk), Phrenia (19/1 rogue/fighter), Malchara (12/6/2 AA), Denaria (18/2 ...wonk?)

  13. #33
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    84

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sandypaws View Post
    Depends on how you define the teacher/student relationship. (I suspect you are refering to a holier-than-thou dynamic?)
    No, i´m reffering to the notion that some people have to teach others at any given time without taking a step back and think, atleast for a second, that its not really necessary. If they just worked on their ego and communication skills this topic wouldnt have been an issue.

    Mia, lately i´ve been playing GW2, so not much. But for 3 years ive helped (true) elitists get what they want while donated close to 10 million plat to new players so they could afford AH prices. I´ve run favour runs with players of all levels though i have alot of favour myself. F2p and have 2135 total favour points atm. Healed people when they desperatly waited 2 hours in lfm for a healer etc. I´ve helped more people than you seem to realize or care about.

    "Pointing fingers and throwing generalized accusations is counter productive and already been done a million times".

    Remember you saying that?


    Furthermore, if the current "elitists" can work on their egos and communication skills i´ll be willing to drop all grudges and start over. How about that?


    Pyreal af Templar

  14. #34
    Community Member knightgf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    2,080

    Default

    It seems Cannith still fights petty wars over silly stuff. No matter, I guess some things don't change even when you've been gone for more than a year.

    I think the bigger picture at hand is the population problem; truthfully, if I could somehow find some way to boost Cannith's population enough to make a big difference, id tell you. But there's very little helpful advice I can give.

    I think the only move I could see being even remotely possible is to somehow rally enough players and somehow convince Turbine to make players group together on servers with low population numbers, such as this one. Even then, it would probably be a short-term fix; in the long term, the numbers will sharply drop, and while you'll have more players, it may not be enough to make things better on the server. In theory, advertising would work as well; if enough players advertise for people to play on cannith, then you're bound to see more numbers. But you would need a LOT of resources to carry that out, resources that Turbine may forbid you to use because it may be considered 'spamming'. Not to mention merging Cannith with another server can definately boost numbers, but good luck trying to convince Turbine to do so!

    It's been more than a year since I logged into Cannith, and it's a shame considering I made a lot of progress on that server. But I got sick and tired of wandering around with no groups and no ability to create LFG's, so I left and returned back to my roots. If I somehow found incentive to go to Cannith, such as free character transfers, maybe id go back and play. But until then...I'll still think about the Cannith server, and perhaps someday, it will get the treatment it deserves.
    Here's a riddle for you: What do you call people who play the game for only a day and apparently know everything?

  15. #35
    Community Member canisll's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    69

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Barnaky View Post
    No, i´m reffering to the notion that some people have to teach others at any given time without taking a step back and think, atleast for a second, that its not really necessary. If they just worked on their ego and communication skills this topic wouldnt have been an issue.

    Mia, lately i´ve been playing GW2, so not much. But for 3 years ive helped (true) elitists get what they want while donated close to 10 million plat to new players so they could afford AH prices. I´ve run favour runs with players of all levels though i have alot of favour myself. F2p and have 2135 total favour points atm. Healed people when they desperatly waited 2 hours in lfm for a healer etc. I´ve helped more people than you seem to realize or care about.

    "Pointing fingers and throwing generalized accusations is counter productive and already been done a million times".

    Remember you saying that?


    Furthermore, if the current "elitists" can work on their egos and communication skills i´ll be willing to drop all grudges and start over. How about that?


    Pyreal af Templar
    I really don't see a problem with teaching others. Some raids need of a cohesive group following a plan (Hound of Xoriat I'm looking at you >_>).

    In general I've had good experiences with PUGs, no matter if I was on a melee, caster or divine.
    Of course there's more pressure on you on the latter classes but it still went well for the most part.
    When I was up front about being a first timer to the raid or in need of tips since I wasn't experienced
    there always someone ready with tips on tactics and items to bring.

    I also agree, that having a good leader does make a difference. He will not only give instructions as needed and tell everyone what he needs them to do, but also take a little of the pressure off the key players.
    There is a huge difference between the feeling "When I mess up we wipe and I'll be blacklisted and never get a chance again" or "When I mess up we wipe and try again without hard feelings".

    So tl:dr:
    In my opinion guided tours are good for long-term motivation.

  16. #36
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    89

    Default

    High Rollers should do more Ascension Chamber guided tours... Errbody needs a Litany.

  17. #37
    Community Member nicnivyn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    California, United States
    Posts
    151

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by HarryCrumb View Post
    High Rollers should do more Ascension Chamber guided tours... Errbody needs a Litany.
    We leave that to Mr. Harrycrumb. When's the next Harry?
    Goddess! You know it baybee.

    Nissha - Chanteuse - Zealotry - Zealot - Zeal
    Leader, High Rollers (Cannith)

  18. #38
    Founder
    2015 DDO Players Council
    Braegan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Xoriat
    Posts
    3,772

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nicnivyn View Post
    A very simple thing, for instance, is instead of telling that noob with no heavy fort in shroud that they're a noob - quietly pass them 20 tapestry pieces and send them a tell with instructions on how to get a minos.
    This.

    While I give the OP kudos for having his heart in the right place. When I help people out, I prefer to do it one on one, face to face so I know the help (items,advice, etc) are going directly to the source they are needed.

    This is something I've been doing for a long time now. I remember recently running with a bard (level 9ish at the time) real squishy, appeared to be way under-geared. After talking with him for a bit over the course of a couple days I found out he just started the game, like a week ago. MyDDO (assuming it was correct) showed all the signs of newer guy (no fort, multiple stat items that wouldn't stack, etc). I asked him if he wouldn't mind some helpful advice, he was all ears.

    Long story, short. I logged on a higher level character, took him through BAM to collect some ore (didn't finish so as not to kill his xp) and get him some heavy fort. After he showed he was willing to improve and take some advice I passed him some gear that would help him along and we talked alot about different ways to progress his character.

    It didn't take anything from me, aside from a small amount of time. And it was cool to see the guy leading his own groups a few levels later a bit better geared and knowledgeable.
    Git off mah lawn!

    If, If's and But's was Candies and Nuts, we'd all have a Merry Christmas.

  19. #39
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    417

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by HarryCrumb View Post
    High Rollers should do more Ascension Chamber guided tours... Errbody needs a Litany.
    This. Seems like every Ascension LFM I have seen includes 'know it'. Kinda hard to horn in on this one!
    Cannith, Slicing Blow. Vilenna (18/1/1 Clonkard), Marvala (20 monk), Phrenia (19/1 rogue/fighter), Malchara (12/6/2 AA), Denaria (18/2 ...wonk?)

  20. #40
    Community Member xxHazexx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Hudson N.C.
    Posts
    462

    Post

    Quote Originally Posted by Barnaky View Post
    But for 3 years ive helped (true) elitists
    Pyreal af Templar
    Your not serious? Don't make me laugh.

    You shouldn't make obviously untrue statements especially for someone who owns what content? Vale? IQ?

    Just because most of the "actual" vets have quit or are currently afk doesn't not give your gameplay time precedence over anything. I contemplated replying to this alot earlier but i had to think of the nicest response i could think of without catching an infraction or having a thread locked again as most Templar posters have a bad rap for but thats only because it's true. Lrn2Play ddo. /Troll on
    Last edited by xxHazexx; 10-20-2012 at 11:09 AM. Reason: Ios fail
    ŦĘӍPLѦR
    Cannith

    Shadowhaze-Righteouss-Technological Warfare-Lightes.
    Fear is the enemy of logic-Frank Sinatra

Page 2 of 7 FirstFirst 123456 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

This form's session has expired. You need to reload the page.

Reload