Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 54
  1. #21
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    79

    Default Drow?

    Just curious what starting stats would you recommend for a Drow 18/2 Pale Master/ Trapper? I currently have my PM/T at 17 and am about to LR him due to multiple deficiencies, mainly feats. I don't remember offhand what my feats are atm, but I know I don't have any Spell Pens and that I have Wraith form. I would like to be able to FoD mobs in Heroic at-level content most of the time in Elite, with Hard - auto success. I was in Rainbow in the Dark on Hard 2 nights ago (was 16 at the time) and FoD was iffy at best. Saw many failed spell pen rolls Any suggestions would be appreciated.

  2. #22

    Default

    This build as written will have some spell pen issues from around level 16-20. It goes away once you get epic spell pen and a few levels of magister or draconic under your belt. Feel free to switch things around to focus more on spell pen during those levels, but be aware that some spell pen checks (Eladrin in the mid-30s in running with the devils, IIRC) simply aren't reachable so you will see some blue shields no matter what you do.

    While I assume drow could do this build just fine, I'm not sure on the details. Humans synergize very well for this due to getting an extra feat and an extra skill point per level. Without those it gets pretty tight.

    For drow I'd probably drop extend and UMD. (But I'd hate not having extend. UMD is meh at best for this build.)

  3. #23
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    43

    Default

    Question on mana conservation - I'm really enjoying using xbows on my artificer, would those be a good alternative weapon for this build at lower levels for conserving mana while allowing attacks from range?

  4. #24
    Community Member HungarianRhapsody's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    5,041

    Default

    ZOMG! YOU ARE TERRIBAD BECAUSE OF LESS SPELL PENETRATION!



    I got a lot of grief from people who told me that my first life Wizard 18/Rogue 2 (from before Archmages and Pale Masters existed) was just a terrible idea because I wouldn't have enough Spell Penetration. I ignored those people and continued to enjoy the heck out of my character and because of the Evasion and high Reflex save, I stayed alive through content that made many other characters drop like flies. It's an astonishingly useful character that can get the job done in a wide variety of quests. I'm a fan.

  5. #25
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    79

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by oldweasel View Post
    Question on mana conservation - I'm really enjoying using xbows on my artificer, would those be a good alternative weapon for this build at lower levels for conserving mana while allowing attacks from range?
    The main drawback is that while Artificer gets Rapid Reload and Exotic Weapon: Repeating Crossbow (heavy and light) automatically, unless you take 6 levels of Rogue and go Mechanic, or both of those Feats (Rapid Reload & Heavy OR Light Repeater), you won't be able to use xbows effectively. While you could potentially use a standard (non-repeating) xbow on a wiz/rogue without taking any feats, the difference in dps between a repeater with the above feats and a non-repeater without any feats is (imo) astronomical. So much so, that to me it wouldn't be worth carrying the xbow and bolts.
    If you instead substitute Artificer for the 2 rogue levels shown in this build (giving up Evasion), a repeater would certainly be a viable option.

    EDIT: Oops, twice. Now we all know why I don't use Master's Touch, I don't even know what it does apparently
    Last edited by falcon8; 02-23-2013 at 11:55 AM.

  6. #26
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    79

    Default

    Apparently I haven't played enough arcanes in DDO and perhaps this question is answered elsewhere, but here goes: I notice in this build that it is recommended that I take Extend, Heighten, Quicken and Maximize metamagics. Extend I understand (at least for the most part) why and what to use it on. The others I'm not so sure.

    Would someone be willing to provide some guidance on how to effectively use each of those 3 Metas, please?

    What spells should I Quicken, Heighten and/or Maximize?

    Should I use those metas Always or only in certain situations (if sometimes, examples please)?

  7. #27

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by falcon8 View Post
    EDIT: Oops, my bad. I tend to forget about Master's Touch making the Exotic Weapon Proficiency Feat a moot point
    Master's Touch only grants Martial proficiency, not exotic.

  8. #28

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by falcon8 View Post
    Apparently I haven't played enough arcanes in DDO and perhaps this question is answered elsewhere, but here goes: I notice in this build that it is recommended that I take Extend, Heighten, Quicken and Maximize metamagics. Extend I understand (at least for the most part) why and what to use it on. The others I'm not so sure.

    Would someone be willing to provide some guidance on how to effectively use each of those 3 Metas, please?

    What spells should I Quicken, Heighten and/or Maximize?

    Should I use those metas Always or only in certain situations (if sometimes, examples please)?
    Maximize always on for all spells.

    Extend for death aura, displacement, haste, rage, and fire shield

    Quicken for otto's sphere of dancing and symbols

    Heighten for finger of death and disintegrate (and trap the soul when soul gem farming)

    To apply metamagics to specific spell, drag the spell to a hotbar, right-click it and choose the metas you want always on

  9. #29
    Community Member FestusHood's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Nebraska
    Posts
    3,468

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by falcon8 View Post
    Apparently I haven't played enough arcanes in DDO and perhaps this question is answered elsewhere, but here goes: I notice in this build that it is recommended that I take Extend, Heighten, Quicken and Maximize metamagics. Extend I understand (at least for the most part) why and what to use it on. The others I'm not so sure.

    Would someone be willing to provide some guidance on how to effectively use each of those 3 Metas, please?

    What spells should I Quicken, Heighten and/or Maximize?

    Should I use those metas Always or only in certain situations (if sometimes, examples please)?
    Ok, i'll take a stab. Extend for this build would mostly be to keep the self healing death auras running twice as long. The main thing extend does is double the duration of spells with timed durations, like haste, rage, and in this case death aura. It does not effect offensive aoe spells as far as i know, such as wall of fire, acid rain, etc. I think it used to a long time ago, but they changed it.

    Heighten is a feat which is used to raise the spell level of lower level spells to the level of the highest spells you can currently cast. For example, web is a second level spell, but if you use heighten on it, it will be counted as a spell of level equal to the highest level spells you can currently cast. The reason you would use this is because of the way dc's are calculated to determine if an enemy makes a save against your spell. It is 10 plus the level of the spell plus your casting modifier (in this case intelligence). So if you are capable of casting 9th level spells, using heighten on a spell like web for example would raise the save dc of it by 7. It will also raise the cost of the spell up to the cost of a typical 9th level spell. Heighten does nothing on spells that don't have saving throws.

    Maximize simply adds 150 spell power to your damage type spells, at a cost of an extra 25 sp per cast. It will basically affect any spells that produce a numeric value obtained by rolling dice, which is affected by spellpower. Damage spells, most repair spells, and most cure spells. Think of it like a spell turbocharger. You burn twice as bright but burn out faster.

    Most metamagics have enhancements and items that can reduce the cost of using them.

    If you don't know, you can right click on a spell in a hotbar and an option will come up to apply metamagics just to that spell, so you don't have to keep toggling your metas off and on all the time. Especially useful for extend and heighten. Some people like to put 2 versions of a spell on their hotbar, one plain, and the other one pumped up with metas, so that they can choose which one to cast without fidgeting around with the metas themselves.

    One last thing, i'm pretty sure master's touch doesn't work on exotic weapons.

  10. #30
    Community Member FestusHood's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Nebraska
    Posts
    3,468

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    Maximize always on for all spells.
    Maximize on all the time? I almost never turn it on personally. If i did i would be out of sp after the first battle. It's super inefficient, especially at low levels. I rarely use spell power boosting metas on any of my characters. Except on sla's when they can be applied, because they are free. My pale trapper is currently level 9, and my primary offensive spells are frost lance and scorching ray. at least against single targets. They cost what about 8 sp each? i kill most everything by casting each one once, so it costs 16 sp per mob killed. If i turned on maximize and killed with one shot it would still cost 33 sp per mob killed. This is of course when aoe spells are not practical, and i especially don't like maximizing those, since for example firewall will kill everything before it runs out without metas.

  11. #31
    Community Member HungarianRhapsody's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    5,041

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by falcon8 View Post
    Apparently I haven't played enough arcanes in DDO and perhaps this question is answered elsewhere, but here goes: I notice in this build that it is recommended that I take Extend, Heighten, Quicken and Maximize metamagics. Extend I understand (at least for the most part) why and what to use it on. The others I'm not so sure.

    Would someone be willing to provide some guidance on how to effectively use each of those 3 Metas, please?

    What spells should I Quicken, Heighten and/or Maximize?

    Should I use those metas Always or only in certain situations (if sometimes, examples please)?
    Heighten is good for any spell that has a DC where you want your target to fail their save. This may seem like a "duh" comment, but there are a decent number of spells where you don't care as much if your opponents fail their saves. If my opponent makes its save on the first tick of a Wall of Fire, I really don't care - it will die soon enough and I'll be happy. If my opponent makes its save on a Finger of Death and dies to the negative energy damage that it takes instead of dying to the death effect, I'm still happy since it's dead in either case.

    But if I want that Mass Hold Monster or that Otto's Disco Ball to stick or if I am throwing a Finger of Death at an enemy that's at full health, then I want that spell to land and I will have Heighten on.

    Maximize and Empower are used to increase the damage that enemies take from a single casting of a spell. If you have enough time to spend smacking down an enemy with multiple castings, then you don't need Maximize and Empower turned on. Take your time and cast a couple of spells to knock it out instead of casting one really expensive spell with those two Metamagic effects on. But if you're facing something that's really nasty and you need it to go down FAST, then you want both of those Metamagic flags turned on. It's more expensive to cast spells with those two on, but enemies die faster and sometimes that's important. As you run higher level quests, you'll eventually end up with those two Metamagic flags on 100% of the time, but they're WAAAAAY too expensive to turn on for long at low levels.

    Quicken is useful for casting faster, but MUCH more importantly, you still get to cast your spell without needing a Concentration check when you get hit for some damage. If you're about to die, you want that Reconstruct to go off successfully and you don't want it to fail because you took some more damage. I have Quicken turned on for my main self-healing spell (either Reconstruct or Negative Energy Burst) on my "combat" hotbar. If I want to self-heal outside of combat, I'll click the non-Quickened Reconstruct or Negative Energy Burst button. I also have Quicken turned on for Otto's Disco Ball and for Symbol of Death just because I don't feel like waiting for the long casting times for either of those spells. That's because I'm impatient and sloppy. You might end up choosing to leave Quicken off for the Disco Ball and for Symbol of Death.

    My 0.002 plat.

  12. #32

    Default

    Oh yeah, major oversight on my part. Quicken for neg energy burst, defintely!
    Quote Originally Posted by FestusHood View Post
    Maximize on all the time? I almost never turn it on personally. If i did i would be out of sp after the first battle. It's super inefficient, especially at low levels. I rarely use spell power boosting metas on any of my characters. Except on sla's when they can be applied, because they are free. My pale trapper is currently level 9, and my primary offensive spells are frost lance and scorching ray. at least against single targets. They cost what about 8 sp each? i kill most everything by casting each one once, so it costs 16 sp per mob killed. If i turned on maximize and killed with one shot it would still cost 33 sp per mob killed. This is of course when aoe spells are not practical, and i especially don't like maximizing those, since for example firewall will kill everything before it runs out without metas.
    Maximize costs me 12 sp.

    EDIT: Same with me for scorching ray and frost lance, which cost me 20 and 22 sp with maximize respectively. Though I'm trying to use cone of cold more to get a feel for how the true zergers do it.

    Once I get level 8 spells I replace frost lance with polar ray. That fort save on frost lance is a killer in high levels. Then when I get to epic levels I typically switch from fire to lightning, replacing scorching ray with chain lightning. Though on epic levels I almost exclusively use necrotic ray for my ray needs. (22 sp w/maximize)

  13. #33
    Community Member FestusHood's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Nebraska
    Posts
    3,468

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    Oh yeah, major oversight on my part. Quicken for neg energy burst, defintely!Maximize costs me 12 sp.
    Getting to that point costs quite a bit of gear and ap expenditure. Even at that cost it's less efficient for some spells than just casting them twice. Depends how much spell power you have without the maximize i guess as to how much it's worth to use it.

    For example i have empower healing meta on my ranger, but i actually never use it. It more than doubles the cost of the heal spells, and adds less than 30% to their effect on me.

  14. #34
    Community Member HungarianRhapsody's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    5,041

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    Maximize always on for all spells.
    This is 100% correct.

    Quote Originally Posted by FestusHood View Post
    Maximize on all the time? I almost never turn it on personally. If i did i would be out of sp after the first battle.
    This is also 100% correct.

    At the lowest levels, Maximize and Empower are insanely expensive. At higher levels, both are more efficient and more necessary and you have more "spare" spell points.

    I would never consider having Maximize on for even a moment at level 1. I would never consider leaving Maximize off for even a moment at level 20+ aside from a few specialty spells that get the individual-spell-Metamagic flag set for them on the spell's icon.

    At the levels between 1 and 20, Maximize is on when it's appropriate and off when it's appropriate. "Appropriate" depends on the quest, on what gear I have and on what the rest of the party looks like (and whether there even is a "rest of the party").

  15. #35

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FestusHood View Post
    Getting to that point costs quite a bit of gear and ap expenditure. Even at that cost it's less efficient for some spells than just casting them twice. Depends how much spell power you have without the maximize i guess as to how much it's worth to use it.
    This is a build thread. The ap expenditure is in the build. As for gear, it's easy and cheap to find a crafter to make you an efficient maximize II of lore trinket.

    Quote Originally Posted by HungarianRhapsody View Post
    At the levels between 1 and 20, Maximize is on when it's appropriate and off when it's appropriate. "Appropriate" depends on the quest, on what gear I have and on what the rest of the party looks like (and whether there even is a "rest of the party").
    This build takes the maximize feat at level 9, and the improved maximize I & II enhancements also at level 9 specifically to make maximize viable when you get it. Improved Maximize III is taken at 12.

  16. #36
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    79

    Default Sorry for the hijack

    EllisDee, sorry to hijack your build thread and turn it into a discussion on Metamagics. I didn't realize what size this kettle of worms was when I posted asking for guidance If I had, I would have started a new thread.

    The only reason I posted here was because I am following this build on my current toon and haven't seemed to be particularly effective in parties. I originally built this toon as a Wiz/ 2 Rog because I do a lot of soloing, particularly at lower levels and haven't partied with this one much yet, so still trying to figure out how to maximize my effectiveness. My primary toons in the past have been artificer (currently 20/5 epic) and a rogue, so not very adept at "pure" caster yet.

    Thank you very much for all of the input from everyone. Please let us return this thread to a build thread in thanks for EllisDee's willingness to post the build and answer questions about it

  17. #37
    Community Member bonscott87's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    255

    Default

    Extend - I take this really early and use it on most of my buffs but not all. For example I won't use it on False Life if I have that slotted since the HP will usually be long gone anyway before it expires so why waste the SP. I'll turn it on or off for Death Aura depending on the quest. If things go down quickly then I'll leave it off, if the mobs are large and tough then I'll turn it on. I have Extend turned on all the time and then turn it off for various spells individually.

    Once I reach the point where buffs will last 10+ minutes without Extend I often will look to swap it out for something, even Augment Summoning since I use a lot of summons.

    Maximize - Same here in that I have it on all the time but turn it off for certain spells. For example I typically have Magic Missile level 1 spell slotted all the time, even high levels. But I turn maximize off because MM is so cheap. I use it more as a "don't want to cast anything big but want to do something" damage spell to help out the melee. Or is something is almost down or at long range I may shoot a MM or two at it. Also, leaving Max off will allow you to cast it even when your echoes of power is going off because you're out of SP. The difference is pretty amazing on things like Wall of Fire and Acid Blast or Acid Rain. Max really amps up the damage.

    Heighten - May depend on your spell load out but as noted allows you to really raise the DC of lower level spells. Can make something like Web useful even at high level.

    Quicken - I usually don't look at taking this until the higher levels. I honestly have never really needed it until 15 or so and even then I can get away without it. Could just be my playstyle. I'm not talking epics though.

  18. #38

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bonscott87 View Post
    Maximize - Same here in that I have it on all the time but turn it off for certain spells. For example I typically have Magic Missile level 1 spell slotted all the time, even high levels. But I turn maximize off because MM is so cheap. I use it more as a "don't want to cast anything big but want to do something" damage spell to help out the melee. Or is something is almost down or at long range I may shoot a MM or two at it. Also, leaving Max off will allow you to cast it even when your echoes of power is going off because you're out of SP. The difference is pretty amazing on things like Wall of Fire and Acid Blast or Acid Rain. Max really amps up the damage.
    Actually yeah, I have Sonic Blast always-memorized, never-maximized like your MM. I mainly only ever use it for breaking barrels, but will toss it out there for slivered mobs as well. It's 4 sp compared to MM's 2, but same basic idea.

    Quicken - I usually don't look at taking this until the higher levels. I honestly have never really needed it until 15 or so and even then I can get away without it. Could just be my playstyle. I'm not talking epics though.
    Right there with you. This build doesn't take quicken until 15, which also happens to be the level it gets dball. That's actually why it takes quicken at 15, heh.

  19. #39
    Community Member eachna_gislin's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    706

    Default

    Necroing this thread, but I'm considering trying this build out. It will only go to 20, one to three times (for past life feats on a cleric). I'll be spending my end game at 18 (banking 2 levels and only taking them when ready to TR again). That may influence answers.

    Is there a single feat that can be dropped in order to switch from Human to Half Elf? I know everyone thinks they're ugly, but I do so love my Helves, and I don't have to look at their faces. With my 34 point build, by making Str 13, Con 15, and Cha 13, I'm able to maximize my dilly feat options.

    I just love that flexibility in a single character, and I don't know what feat I can sacrifice to get it.

  20. #40

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by eachna_gislin View Post
    Is there a single feat that can be dropped in order to switch from Human to Half Elf?
    My first inclination is to drop Enchantment Focus. This is problematic in that it's taken as wizard bonus feat, but you'll be dropping a core feat.
    Code:
    Human
     1 : Toughness
     1H: Insightful Reflexes
     2W: Spell Focus: Enchantment
     3 : Greater Spell Focus: Enchantment or Past Life: Arcane Initiate
     6 : Mental Toughness <== Do NOT take as wizard bonus feat
     6W: Extend Spell
     9 : Maximize Spell
    12 : Greater Spell Focus: Necromancy
    12W: Spell Focus: Necromancy
    15 : Quicken Spell
    17W: Heighten Spell
    18 : Spell Penetration
    20 : Greater Spell Penetration replaces Mental Toughness
    
    Non-Human
     1 : Toughness
     2W: Spell Focus: Necromancy
     3 : Insightful Reflexes
     6 : Mental Toughness <== Do NOT take as wizard bonus feat
     6W: Extend Spell
     9 : Maximize Spell
    12 : Greater Spell Focus: Necromancy
    12W: Quicken Spell
    15 : Spell Focus: Enchantment or Past Life: Arcane Initiate
    17W: Heighten Spell
    18 : Spell Penetration
    20 : Greater Spell Penetration replaces Mental Toughness
    This seems to work with the least amount of disruption to the build as written. You'll be -1 DC on enchantment, but your holds and dball should still be effective.

    Notes:
    • The racial toughness I enhancement is required by level 6 at the latest to meet progression requirements, meaning toughness must be taken at 1, 3, or 6.
    • Mental Toughness is required for Archmage I at 7, and it needs to not be taken as a bonus feat. That means it also must be taken at 1, 3 or 6.
    • Any spell focus feat (past life: wizard doesn't count) is required for Archmage I at 7, but the focus feat can be slotted into a bonus feat.

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

This form's session has expired. You need to reload the page.

Reload