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  1. #1
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    Default Could a non-Warforged Sorc or Wiz/Arti be viable?

    I'd like to play a non-warforged caster, but I recognize a big advantage warforged casters have is they can self-repair. If I were to be, for example, a dwarf and take a few levels in Artificer so I could have the Construct Essence feat, and then take the rest of my levels in Sorc or Wiz, could that be a viable build? I'd then be able to self-repair, but I wonder how my other abilities might suffer. Is there a build like this already in existence?

  2. #2
    Founder & Hero Uska's Avatar
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    non warforged arties,wizzies, and sorcs are very viable especially wizzies take the PM pre and you can self heal very well, sorcs can usually get a good UMD and can scroll heal well no need to multiclass.


    dont multiclass casters(well not unless you really know what your doing)

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  3. #3
    The Hatchery Fefnir_2011's Avatar
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    Despite what some people would have you believe, you aren't severely gimping yourself if you go fleshie. Now, if you're going fleshie wizard, there's practically no reason to not take Pale Master unless for some reason you really feel strongly about sacrificing self-healing for enchantment DCs. As for sorcs, here's what you're looking at that's unique to each race:

    WF Sorcs
    uninterruptable self healing with Quicken
    +2 Con and more toughness enhancements
    -2 Cha means -1 DC compared to Halfling/Elf

    Human Sorcs
    +1 Cha means +.5 DC (1.5 over WF)
    Extra feat on a feat starved class
    little extra skill points on a skill starved class
    Self Healing through UMD, HV for skill boost, more Hamp for scrolls
    You don't dream of electric sheep

    Drow Sorc
    +2 Cha is +1 DC (2 over WF)
    SR is actually pretty useful while leveling
    -2 Con, crappy racial enhancements
    your bio is pretty much required to have emo poetry or origin story, i.e., "Drizzzzztxx69 was born on a rainy night in an alleyway...."

    Half-Elf Sorc
    Trade in the Human extra feat for a Dilettante (probably Favored soul, maybe Paladin for saves or monk for better scroll healing)
    You're a post-op burn victim

    Half-orc Sorc
    lolwhy?

    Halfling/Dwarf Sorc
    You're a midget, so points for style

    Elf Sorc
    Don't be silly, Elves are wizards
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  4. #4
    Community Member licho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thurbus View Post
    I'd like to play a non-warforged caster, but I recognize a big advantage warforged casters have is they can self-repair. If I were to be, for example, a dwarf and take a few levels in Artificer so I could have the Construct Essence feat, and then take the rest of my levels in Sorc or Wiz, could that be a viable build? I'd then be able to self-repair, but I wonder how my other abilities might suffer. Is there a build like this already in existence?
    Non WF for:

    Sorcerer: Yes its ok. As Sorcerer you have high charisma -> high UMD -> Heal Scrolls. The whole point of WF is a easy self healing.

    Artificer: I played Human with Construct Essence, betwean scrolls and spell i feel my self healing is good. However if i roll again, i would go with HE for SA.

    Wizard PM: The WF dosnt give anything to PM, and stuff they get is similar. In fact PM WF need to deal with some equipment limits (like no robes).

    Wizard AM: Ok, here i would hold on. You no longer have easy button for self healing, and everyone around watching your class icon assume you have it. The good thing is that you still have all overpowered stuff wizards have, and can build up UMD for self heal purpose. However what for?

    Final Note: Alot of things is "viable" especially if you sink a lot of time into it. However there is question what you gain instead:
    - Flavor? Cool enought. If you just want to play Elven ArchMage since its iconic go for it. It will probably be more fun than Meta - Build.
    - Other benefits . Droping WF for Human on Sorc sounds like good plan. (Feat and DC), but halfing? Check point #1.

    And yes, i woudl avoid multiclassing as long as you know very well what you are doing.
    For 1st caster just go pure to see how it looks like, and what you are losing splashing.
    As for race: Human is always good choice.
    Wizard PM Human is good start. But if you pick Dwarf instead of Human, you are not automaticly gimp.
    Last edited by licho; 10-03-2012 at 12:57 AM.

  5. #5
    Bwest Fwiends Memnir's Avatar
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    My Sorc is a Half-Elf with the FvS dilly feat.
    Quite a lot of fun - and I recommend it if you don't want to be a WF and still have reliable self-healing.
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  6. #6
    Community Member wax_on_wax_off's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fefnir_2011 View Post
    Despite what some people would have you believe, you aren't severely gimping yourself if you go fleshie. Now, if you're going fleshie wizard, there's practically no reason to not take Pale Master unless for some reason you really feel strongly about sacrificing self-healing for enchantment DCs. As for sorcs, here's what you're looking at that's unique to each race:

    WF Sorcs
    uninterruptable self healing with Quicken
    +2 Con and more toughness enhancements
    -2 Cha means -1 DC compared to Halfling/Elf

    Human Sorcs
    +1 Cha means +.5 DC (1.5 over WF)
    Extra feat on a feat starved class
    little extra skill points on a skill starved class
    Self Healing through UMD, HV for skill boost, more Hamp for scrolls
    You don't dream of electric sheep

    Drow Sorc
    +2 Cha is +1 DC (2 over WF)
    SR is actually pretty useful while leveling
    -2 Con, crappy racial enhancements
    your bio is pretty much required to have emo poetry or origin story, i.e., "Drizzzzztxx69 was born on a rainy night in an alleyway...."

    Half-Elf Sorc
    Trade in the Human extra feat for a Dilettante (probably Favored soul, maybe Paladin for saves or monk for better scroll healing)
    You're a post-op burn victim

    Half-orc Sorc
    lolwhy?

    Halfling/Dwarf Sorc
    You're a midget, so points for style

    Elf Sorc
    Don't be silly, Elves are wizards
    I really like the half-elf/paladin dilettante for wizard or sorcerer as +5 saves and early access to cure wands goes a long way to easing through the leveling process and it doesn't hurt at cap either. If the saves are useless at cap you can swap to barb dil for some extra HP.

    Seriously, good saves makes such a difference and I'm certain that I wouldn't be capable of the things that I can do without them (like being able to solo basically every quest on elite or - even worse - doing it in a bad pug).
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  7. #7
    The Hatchery bigolbear's Avatar
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    nothing at all wrong with fleshy arcanes.

    A warforge self healing arcane is actualy supposed to be something a bit odd - its just that its also very popular, and very good indeed, but they dont play the same - and are not built the same.

    Heres some things people that say "wf arcanes are way overpowered" dont like to mention.
    1. your 5 to 15 action points down compared to a fleshy because you have to spend it on repair enhancements and arcane spell failure reduction.
    2. your TYPICALY down 1 or 2 feats compared to fleshy, 1 for quicken, 1 posibly for mithril body.
    3. typicaly down 1 lvl 4 spell slot and 1 lvl 6. for repair crit and recon.
    4. loss of 1 or 2 points of spell dcs due to lower int/char potential than a human/helf/drow, and less spell pen than an elf.


    Now dont get me wrong, wf arcanes are powerful - but they are a different beast to a normal arcane, especialy true on sorcs.

    There are plenty of ways a fleshy can self heal - umd is the most obvious and either a wiz or sorc can build for umd without multiclassing. I personaly run a fleshy sorc, a wf sorc(battle mage) and a wf wizard. All can self heal, in a variety of ways.

    What a fleshy mage cant do however is take massive sustained damage and quikened recon through it, but as ive stated above - there are sacrifices for that.
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  8. #8
    Community Member chance2000's Avatar
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    Default My Artificers

    My Artificers.
    First I never multi class.
    I have no WF artificers.
    I have a level 20 dwarf. Self heals with wands. No construct essence.
    A level 20 halfelf with the favored soul dil. No construct essence.
    Plus a few others level 9-15
    My funniest one is Webit a halfling. The dog is bigger than she is
    When they were first on lam I tried all the races and WF did not work as well as the other races for me.
    Now on lam I would double box and the WF had more hp.
    The drow I used was better at spells and traps.
    Now at that time leveling was fast non dev events the xp was like 10x.
    Water works was worth over 100k as was part two of Delera's.
    The final one Thrall of the necromancer was insane xp.
    After that I was able to hit the orchard.
    A few runs of the Temple of Vol I was able to hit the harbor madness chain.
    Then the 12 madness chain. By that time both were level 18 holding level 19.
    A few IQ stuff and both were 20.
    The first caster I ever got to 20 was a drow wiz , he is back to 19 on his 2nd life.
    Me I have stopped working on my Tr's and am working on getting one of each class to at least level20.
    I am down to my final four classes Sorc who is level 15 holding 16.
    Favored Soul 12.
    Monk who is 15.
    And Pally who I have not really started. One tr is a level 14 pally do not count him.
    The Sorc and the halfelf artificer are not in my signature because they are on my 2nd account
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  9. #9
    Community Member Chaoscheerio's Avatar
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    I play a human Construct Essence Artificer and with my repair spells(and AP invested in repair manipulation) it's very easy to keep myself healed. Granted my best heal only gets me for 180, but that's not too bad considering I have other ways of keeping myself up.

    When it comes to Artificers in general, I think a warforged could totally be a great option, but fleshy artificers are just fine too.
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  10. #10
    Community Member Lonnbeimnech's Avatar
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    Human sorc umd breakdown.
    11 skill points
    5 epic skill points
    15 from 40 cha (which is a modest number these days)
    4 gh (can be scrolled if you dont want to waste the slot)
    5 greensteel con opp item
    3 persuasion (can get the bunny hat from the ddo store if you dont want to waste a slot)

    43 total, which means you have a no fail heal scroll while cursed, and a no fail resurection, which is handy.

    heal scroll hits for 110 points
    with wand a scroll mastery 2, human heal amp 1 and 10% ship buff, and a gs 10% 20% 30% item thats about 274 points, or if you slot 20% on a tod ring and use 30% from gloves of the claw or purple dragon gloves and skip the 10% thats 249.

    And what everyone seems to over look is the option for silver flame pots on a caster, not usually useful because of the hit to dc, but if you are dot tanking and shiled blocking (say tanking shadows in ToD) your dc doesnt matter. these would hit for about 520 points if you make a gs heal amp stick. - also much easier to get the silver flame favor on a caster, than say a barb.


    Edit: as for artificer, they have an easier time of getting good umd because its a class skill and they can also spend enhancements on improved umd. They get caster level bonuses to scrolls, and the cap.. un-amped heal scroll for 200, with even stronger line of wand scroll mastery than a caster, you can get to 547 with just wand scroll mastery 3 human heal amp 1 and 20% and 30% on items. and skip construct essence.
    Last edited by Lonnbeimnech; 10-03-2012 at 01:27 PM.

  11. #11
    Community Member gerardIII's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wax_on_wax_off View Post
    early access to cure wands
    Who needs cure wands when you have cure pots?

    Cure pots will be enough to lvl 12, then you're gonna start taking a lot of damage. Either you have good self healing as WF or palemaster, or you have good UMD for heal scrolls.
    If you don't, then you better tell your party healer. He'll probably be ****ed to have a squishy elf wizard to heal on top of the mana sponge half orc barbarian and the running away drow ranger.

  12. #12
    Community Member HatsuharuZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thurbus View Post
    I'd like to play a non-warforged caster, but I recognize a big advantage warforged casters have is they can self-repair. If I were to be, for example, a dwarf and take a few levels in Artificer so I could have the Construct Essence feat, and then take the rest of my levels in Sorc or Wiz, could that be a viable build? I'd then be able to self-repair, but I wonder how my other abilities might suffer. Is there a build like this already in existence?
    I currently have a lvl 13 human artificer, and I believe that she is quite viable. I always carry cure wands and potions, and I never get aggro first.

    As a caster, my motto is "Let the other guy go first". It's best to wear the best striding item you can, make use of the jump skill (along with potions/scrolls to boost it), and get access to the Blur spell whenever/however you can.

  13. #13
    The Hatchery Enoach's Avatar
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    Playstyle is really a big factor here

    Where the WF Arcane (Wiz/Sorc) as well as the Artificer have the advantage is that their spell points can contribute directly to their survival - couple that with Feats like Quicken it means that they can get into the thick of things - take the knocks and walk away.

    However, if your playstyle is more of a Keep Stuff at a distance {breathing room}, than the fleshy wiz/sorc/artificer will work as you will have plenty of room to use scrolls/wands. Of course this does sacrifice emergency underfire healing options as 100% reliable as you will be 100% dependent on your skill not to get hit and your concentration skill.

    Don't discount wands, using potions for in combat healing to keep yourself up and switching to wands for between fight healing can also be very powerful with a mixture of the Wand Enhancements these classes get as well as Switch in Healing AMP gear because your between fights - Just make sure its not a switch with your CON item

  14. #14
    Community Member scoobmx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fefnir_2011 View Post
    Despite what some people would have you believe, you aren't severely gimping yourself if you go fleshie. Now, if you're going fleshie wizard, there's practically no reason to not take Pale Master unless for some reason you really feel strongly about sacrificing self-healing for enchantment DCs. As for sorcs, here's what you're looking at that's unique to each race:

    WF Sorcs
    uninterruptable self healing with Quicken
    +2 Con and more toughness enhancements
    -2 Cha means -1 DC compared to Halfling/Elf

    Human Sorcs
    +1 Cha means +.5 DC (1.5 over WF)
    Extra feat on a feat starved class
    little extra skill points on a skill starved class
    Self Healing through UMD, HV for skill boost, more Hamp for scrolls
    You don't dream of electric sheep

    Drow Sorc
    +2 Cha is +1 DC (2 over WF)
    SR is actually pretty useful while leveling
    -2 Con, crappy racial enhancements
    your bio is pretty much required to have emo poetry or origin story, i.e., "Drizzzzztxx69 was born on a rainy night in an alleyway...."

    Half-Elf Sorc
    Trade in the Human extra feat for a Dilettante (probably Favored soul, maybe Paladin for saves or monk for better scroll healing)
    You're a post-op burn victim

    Half-orc Sorc
    lolwhy?

    Halfling/Dwarf Sorc
    You're a midget, so points for style

    Elf Sorc
    Don't be silly, Elves are wizards
    Sorry this is slightly wrong. WF have actually an additional 1 CHA / INT disadvantage because you can use insightful +3 robe, litany, and random gen +8 on a fleshy, but insightful +3 cha/int docents don't exist.
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  15. #15
    The Hatchery Fefnir_2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scoobmx View Post
    Sorry this is slightly wrong. WF have actually an additional 1 CHA / INT disadvantage because you can use insightful +3 robe, litany, and random gen +8 on a fleshy, but insightful +3 cha/int docents don't exist.
    That's my fault, I thought the Stone Heart could have +3 in lieu of the +8.
    Honkin * Diaari * Bazongas


  16. #16
    Community Member Kinerd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigolbear View Post
    Heres some things people that say "wf arcanes are way overpowered" dont like to mention.
    1. your 5 to 15 action points down compared to a fleshy because you have to spend it on repair enhancements and arcane spell failure reduction.
    2. your TYPICALY down 1 or 2 feats compared to fleshy, 1 for quicken, 1 posibly for mithril body.
    3. typicaly down 1 lvl 4 spell slot and 1 lvl 6. for repair crit and recon.
    4. loss of 1 or 2 points of spell dcs due to lower int/char potential than a human/helf/drow, and less spell pen than an elf.
    1. I've got it at 2: 1 rank of Repair Manipulation is plenty, and 1 rank of Inscribed Armor for Composite plating. You probably could spend 15 AP, but you could spend 12 on Improved Quicken too if you felt like it.
    2. I've never even heard of a WF taking mithral body. Especially now that it caps your Dodge %, it's just unthinkable.
    3. I always take Repair Serious rather than Repair Crit, and am satisfied with my level 6 slots on my wizard (I even carry Undeath to Death just for grins).
    4. Especially now with DC and Spell Pen reaching the levels they're reaching, losing 1 or 2 is not relevant. (It's also worth pointing out that Elven spell pen isn't any more free than Repair Manipulation.)

    With all that said, even if I had to spend everything you listed in all your points for actual self-healing, I would spend it.

    .

    Now to the actual topic, it's an interesting proposition. The big downfalls in my mind are (1) wizard can do it so much easier with PM and (2) sorc has to give up tier 3 savant for it. Maybe after the enhancement revamp.

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