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  1. #21
    Community Member Anthios888's Avatar
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    As a dual wielding bard (human with khopeshes and rapiers), I like Fury of the Wild with Reign, Brace for Impact, and Critical Damage (or whatever) twisted.
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    it might make more sense for the player to re-roll.

  2. #22
    Community Member thunir's Avatar
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    Default Fatesinger

    With all twists going to Dread namely Momentum swing, Improved PA, and Legendary Tactics.

  3. #23
    Community Member goodspeed's Avatar
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    Yep, the time of you doing just ok dps is over, kick those mooches to curve and jack yo self up with the insanity challenge. LD all the way baby! With of course those sexy twists from fotw.
    Through avarice, evil smiles; through insanity, it sings.

  4. #24
    Community Member Ragnar7's Avatar
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    In a party, I use fatesinger because I usually have melee heavy parties and I think the extra song damage and debuffs outweigh the gains of another destiny. When I solo I usually use Legendary Dreadnought.

  5. #25
    Community Member Nitesco's Avatar
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    I just capped LD the other day on my Bard 16/Fighter 4 and I'm liking it. Only real problems with it are people's expectations. Especially other melee's.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saravis View Post
    The only thing that's truly useful for the party is longer buffs from a higher bard caster level. Beyond that the only party buffs FS provides is O Fortuna, Tailwind, and Masked Ball.
    Fragment of the Song: Valor: (Passive) Your Inspire Courage grants you and your party an additional +1 to damage.

  7. #27
    Community Member Dexxaan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dexxaan View Post
    I have a Dwarven TWF "Ragesinger" Bard 14, Fighter 4 Barbarian 2 and I am currently doing Fatesinger, then moving on to a quick Shadowdancer to end as Legendary Dreadnought. (I will definitely explore the Fury of the Wild ED for kicks at some point)


    Quick response: Fatesinger, but I am assuming you want to maintain your DC{s and SpellCaster Level as much as possible.

    BUT, if you are serious about the effect/DPS Support you are going to have in your group....then LD wins hands down.

    Well that was back then, this is now.

    Finally geared out, and all Destinies tested, Barbarrus is my 15 Bard, 4 Fighter, 1 Barbarian. Dwarven TWF Tactics-Warchanter.

    Fatesinger as main destiny was simply the best way to go, Twisting in the Legendary Tactis +6 a must.

    Legendary Dreadnought was definitely fun for simple-raw DPS numbers per swing, but when in end game content, the Fatesinger ED comes through somewhat better IMO.

    Hope this helps.



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  8. #28
    Community Member Raithe's Avatar
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    I'm guessing this is where the people who haven't really figured out bards are coming together. Let me help...

    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    The fact that fatesinger effect damage from the epic moment is off limits for bosses is a complete turn off. The ability lasts for 20 seconds and cant be reused again untl next month...
    Bosses are only immune to the sonic and light damage. The +40% to your base damage still applies. My Turn of the Tide lasts for 40 seconds, your barbarian with a lyre symbol is probably missing those enhancements and destiny abilities which increase song duration on an actual bard...

    TotT has a 6-minute cooldown (5:20 external to using it). I get about 3 or 4 uses of TotT in a 30-minute Tor run.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vellrad View Post
    When I'm browsing fatesinger, I see nothing useful there for melee focused bard. Sure, for those focused on casting or CC or hitting mobs with music its awesome, but for melee bard, there is nothing usefuls...
    Bards are hybrids. If you are trying to focus on melee at the expense of casting, or vice versa, then you pretty much failed Bard 101.

    Since Fatesinger actually increases your caster level, gives you spell points, and basically doubles your song count - there is no substitute for an actual bard. Your barbarian that has a lyre class symbol is something entirely different.


    Quote Originally Posted by Saravis View Post
    The only thing that's truly useful for the party is longer buffs from a higher bard caster level. Beyond that the only party buffs FS provides is O Fortuna, Tailwind, and Masked Ball.
    Buffs are the only thing a bard does for a party? Oh, you meant "barbarian with a lyre class symbol," I get it...

    The best abilities in Fatesinger are Siren's Song and Dirge, which you would use when you aren't, typically, fascinating a large group of mobs so they stop in their tracks and do nothing, which barbarians with a lyre symbol are still allowed to do. Dirge on 10 simultaneous mobs is doing ~1050 damage every 3 seconds (~350 damage per second). Siren's Song is insta-cast and stops anything short of a red-named (but still does damage to red-named) in their tracks and lowers their fort save to something that is instakillable or easily-stunned.

    Of course, as a bard (instead of a barbarian with a lyre symbol), you might also be healing the party, casting Otto's Irrestible Dance, or dealing with redname aggro with displacement on. But then some of that might be difficult while in constant rage-zerg mode which continues to work oh so well in Madstone....
    Last edited by Raithe; 03-11-2013 at 09:43 AM.

  9. #29
    Community Member darkovac's Avatar
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    Default Fatesinger

    Fatesinger is the best for bard. More songs, higher Spell Penetration, more sonic dmg, better buffs (specially self buffs), better heals, Sirens Song for orange named, Bound fate for extra red named dmg.

    I use Primal Scream (twisted) as AOE sonic spell. My highest dmg so far (the one I have noticed) with it is 3800 (actualy between 3800 and 3899, but didn't try to remember last two digits) on Velah in VON6.
    Last edited by darkovac; 03-11-2013 at 09:21 AM. Reason: Grammar check
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  10. #30
    Community Member moriedhel's Avatar
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    My 14 bard/6 artificer has gone full int/dex and is using DI for EH for the nice AOE dps, and fatesinger for EE for the CC and the combination of endless fussilade and turn of the tide

  11. #31
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raithe View Post
    I'm guessing this is where the people who haven't really figured out bards are coming together. Let me help...

    Bosses are only immune to the sonic and light damage. The +40% to your base damage still applies. My Turn of the Tide lasts for 40 seconds, your barbarian with a lyre symbol is probably missing those enhancements and destiny abilities which increase song duration on an actual bard...

    TotT has a 6-minute cooldown (5:20 external to using it). I get about 3 or 4 uses of TotT in a 30-minute Tor run.
    Been playing bards since the game could be bought in a box, so your ascertation that everyone who disagrees with you doesnt understand bards is incorrect. All of my bards have full duration to songs.

    Note the following.

    Both FOTW and LD have less cooldown and more damage increase in orders of magnitude, even on a bard. A well built bard does not need more bard abilities to make it more of a bard than it already was. A well built bard will celebrate the fact that the class is versitile and bring more to the table than being a stereotypical bard who only thinks inside the fatesinger box. In DDO being able to build outside of the cookie cutter box yeilds a far better toon.

    None of those 2 epic moments have damage that does not apply in the single most important combat in the quests, red and purple named. However...

    If youre going to try and claim trash is more important, bards are then better off in LD, where they can keep the epic moment going the entire quest. Rather than your claimed 3 or 4 uses of less damage they get an entire quest of far more damage. And if you built your bard correctly, youre still fascinating everything that doesnt roll a 20 on its save, while crushing it in melee as it dances in front of you incapable of counter attack.

    If you are a CC bard, fatesinger is awesome. Melee bards should use LD or Fury if they are looking to contribute damage in melee combat. Claiming that anything that doesnt fit your in the box description of the class is a barbarian with a lyre icon demonstrates lack of understanding of how versitile bards can be. This is probably the class that can benefit from the most destinies.

    P.S. dirge sucks in EE when youre trying to CC. Youre calling everyone else a barbarian with a lyre icon? Better than a soul stone, which is what you will be if youre dealing just enough AOE damage to peeve the mob off but not enough to really injure or kill it - and even one point of damage keeps your best CC on the back burner.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raithe View Post
    .

    Bards are hybrids. If you are trying to focus on melee at the expense of casting, or vice versa, then you pretty much failed Bard 101.
    Who said anything about "at the expense of casting"? Bards are indeed hybrids and this allows them to focus on any aspect of what they can do that the player desires. You should be embracing this versitility rather than telling everyone who doesnt play their bard the same cookie cutter way you do that they failed bard 101. You should also be relieved each time another bard gets invited to the same group youre in that they didnt spec into the same exact abilities you did. In order to do that, you have to see past the cookie cutter, and embrace the real versitility of the class.
    Last edited by Chai; 03-11-2013 at 01:45 PM.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  12. #32
    Community Member Raithe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    A well built bard does not need more bard abilities to make it more of a bard than it already was.
    This is where you are wrong. A "bard," does need to have more "bardiness," to be more of, well, a "bard." My post was mostly tongue-in-cheek. I am well aware that you can play a highly effective bard that is mostly bard, by multiclassing and playing to both classes' strengths. My bard is a bard-rogue and probably does the most damage in Shadow Dancer while playing a particular way (like a rogue).

    The reason I make fun of people is because I see countless bards in the game being played like they were just melee. They never use fascinate, they never self-heal, they don't even keep displacement up (not entirely sure why).

    I played with a very well-played bard wielding a SoS just a little while ago on my main server. She probably was in Dreadnaught or Fury or whatever, but posts like these on a discussion forum are about which destiny is going to give a bard more power. That is Fatesinger, all arguments to the contrary are wrong. Most of the power of being a bard is being able to NOT CARE when and how mobs die (or possibly even NOT die - being clueless to your comings and goings), so "doing the most damage" is SO LITTLE OF A CONCERN it makes me weep for your ignorance.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    If you are a CC bard, fatesinger is awesome. Melee bards...
    YOU are the one trying to pigeonhole bards. They are either "CC" or they are "Melee." Sorry to break it to you, but the best bards can do a bit of both. That was my primary point. I'm not saying that you can't focus more on one than the other, but once you hit a particular threshold of neglecting one side, you are, imo, no longer a bard.

    You are a barbarian wielding a lute (the icon is a lute, not a lyre, my bad).

  13. #33
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raithe View Post
    This is where you are wrong. A "bard," does need to have more "bardiness," to be more of, well, a "bard." My post was mostly tongue-in-cheek. I am well aware that you can play a highly effective bard that is mostly bard, by multiclassing and playing to both classes' strengths. My bard is a bard-rogue and probably does the most damage in Shadow Dancer while playing a particular way (like a rogue).

    The reason I make fun of people is because I see countless bards in the game being played like they were just melee. They never use fascinate, they never self-heal, they don't even keep displacement up (not entirely sure why).

    I played with a very well-played bard wielding a SoS just a little while ago on my main server. She probably was in Dreadnaught or Fury or whatever, but posts like these on a discussion forum are about which destiny is going to give a bard more power. That is Fatesinger, all arguments to the contrary are wrong. Most of the power of being a bard is being able to NOT CARE when and how mobs die (or possibly even NOT die - being clueless to your comings and goings), so "doing the most damage" is SO LITTLE OF A CONCERN it makes me weep for your ignorance.



    YOU are the one trying to pigeonhole bards. They are either "CC" or they are "Melee." Sorry to break it to you, but the best bards can do a bit of both. That was my primary point. I'm not saying that you can't focus more on one than the other, but once you hit a particular threshold of neglecting one side, you are, imo, no longer a bard.

    You are a barbarian wielding a lute (the icon is a lute, not a lyre, my bad).
    When you make statements about one destiny giving the most versitile class in the game the most power as a blanket statement, and everyone else is just wrong, youre basically showing that you are still not out of the cookie cutter land when building toons.

    You have no idea how many bards ive played or about any of my toons builds or my playstyle, so you have no claim to tell me that I am playing a barbarian with a lute icon. Being my favorite class I have built a character around just about every potential strength of the class, and that is quite a few character with quite a few different abilities. I could have an entire stable of bards, and no two of them would play anywhere near remotely similarly. Yours would on the other hand, because you pidgeonhole them all into the same destiny.

    However...the OP asked what destiny is better for a MELEE FOCUSED WARCHANTER and using that criteria, you are wrong, fatesinger does not add the most power. Either LD or Fury adds the most power, because what they focused on is melee in the first place. Instead of embracing this, you came into the thread and talked about how they should be playing THEIR bard YOUR way, instead and if they are not they arent a bard at all but a barbarian with a lute icon.

    I see this type of stuff on the forums all the time. Theres another thread where a player asked how to get the best self healing for a pure fighter, and people are barging in telling him he should roll a 12/6/2 split, and this after the OP qualified his statement by saying its a pure fighter. This is the case here too. The OP states he has a melee warchanter and youre basically telling him he failed bard 101 if he doesnt do everything you told him to do, based on your opinion that you know the only one right way to build and play the class, and the only destiny they should ever take. The cookie cutter era of DDO ended in 2010. Most of the rest of the people here understand this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raithe View Post

    YOU are the one trying to pigeonhole bards. They are either "CC" or they are "Melee." Sorry to break it to you, but the best bards can do a bit of both. That was my primary point. I'm not saying that you can't focus more on one than the other, but once you hit a particular threshold of neglecting one side, you are, imo, no longer a bard.

    You are a barbarian wielding a lute (the icon is a lute, not a lyre, my bad).
    You should read the entire post before quoting. Here is the part you missed that refutes the statement you made.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    If youre going to try and claim trash is more important, bards are then better off in LD, where they can keep the epic moment going the entire quest. Rather than your claimed 3 or 4 uses of less damage they get an entire quest of far more damage. And if you built your bard correctly, youre still fascinating everything that doesnt roll a 20 on its save, while crushing it in melee as it dances in front of you incapable of counter attack.
    Wheres the "either CC or melee" in that?
    Last edited by Chai; 03-11-2013 at 03:24 PM.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  14. #34
    Community Member Raithe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    The OP states he has a melee warchanter and youre basically telling him he failed bard 101 if he doesnt do everything you told him to do, based on your opinion that you know the only one right way to build and play the class, and the only destiny they should ever take.
    Chai you are such a fraud... I clearly just mentioned that I just played with a very well-played bard (and a warchanter) that was nothing like my own bard build. My bard is TWF. It's a bard/rogue. This bard was pure and was wielding a SoS and was a warchanter.

    A warchanter is still a bard. Once again, my primary point. They can still cast spells, they still have access to fascinate, their ToD equipment is what I use on MY bard because it offers savings to Maximize and Extend that the spellsinger set does not. Likewise, a warchanter gains the most power from Fatesinger, because it offers a TON more songs, more spell points, and better abilities to use their songs for.

    I'd also like to make it completely clear that I don't blame anyone for playing a pure melee character, I often resort to that delight on my kensei. They are still, however, vastly inferior characters and classes when compared with an actual bard. An actual bard can make just about any group (of gimps, even) succeed, and has soloing power that approaches a sorc or a wizard.

    If I want it done fast, I do it on my sorc. If I simply want it done, regardless, I do it on my bard.
    Last edited by Raithe; 03-11-2013 at 05:51 PM.

  15. #35
    Community Member Vellrad's Avatar
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    Could you two please go flamewaring with each other somewhere else?

    kthxbai

  16. #36
    Community Member Dexxaan's Avatar
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    Your Bards Name and Server or its all rubbish.
    "Multi-Classing: If you don't know what you are doing...please don't do it."
    Arkkanoz / Barbarrus / BoarAxe / Bruttus / Dahlamaar / Dexxaan / Dominattrix / Gregorius / Inquisittor / Mechanikkus / Predattor / Suntzzu / Valkeerya

  17. #37
    Community Member Ragnar7's Avatar
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    In fatesinger you get a passive innate that gives you +3 damage. In echoes-LD you get another +1 damage on courage, FoS-Valor adds another +1, added to the innate +1 for +3. With that +6 to damage, reign, +2 str from innate and echoes-LD, and the +3% stacking haste you do get some extra damage, obviously not as much as fury or LD but with all the vulnerability procs and grim fate I prefer it in a full party.

    You could be doing more personal damage with another fate, which is why I use LD when soloing, but in a party of other good players I think the fatesinger is better.
    Last edited by Ragnar7; 03-11-2013 at 06:41 PM. Reason: Edit- Realized FoS-Valor added another +1 damage

  18. #38

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    Grim fate and turn the tide both have nice uses as well.

    One of the things not mentioned is the caster levels that come with fatesinger can also improve healing a bit. Cutting off at level 14-16 on a bard has some impact on CCW, MCLW, MCSW. Power doesn't necessarily mean damage, even if it is the general interpretation.

    More songs and siren's doesn't hurt either.

    I wouldn't call LD, FotW, or fatesinger poor choices on a melee bard.
    Quote Originally Posted by Turbine
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