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  1. #121
    Community Member Stoner81's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    <snip>

    Geez, when I sit down and write all that out I think I might go ahead and take 16. heh. Ah well, I'll almost certainly need to TR him come U19 anyway since the LR+20 would force me to take 17 due to the monster manual xp.
    Well when you put it like that then there really isn't much of a reason to stick at 15 is there , as for the LR with the progression to TR I don't see the point in getting a fighter past life since it would only give +1 to attack rolls and +1 to the DC's of tactical feats and I don't think Stunning Fist counts as a tactical feat (does it?). I went with Lawful Neutral for mine (like in the planner in the first post) so when the time comes I will probably go with just the Monk PL and be done with it then level him back up to 16 again.

    It's going to be interesting to see how the enhancement pass affects this build... I'm hoping it gets a bit of boost in some way and not any nerfs but we shall see.

    EDIT - Just checked the DDO store and you could change alignment to Lawful Good before the LR>TR then you could get the Pally PL but it would cost 495TP (ouch!)

    Stoner81.

  2. #122
    Hero nibel's Avatar
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    The capped level 15 challenges also light the -10% problem because they requires usually only 400 items to buy an item instead of the 600 for ML 16/20 ones. Farming 400 with a 10% ingredient penalty is still faster than farming 600 at level.

    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    - Barbarians can't be lawful, so can't LR into a barb.
    Nice. So it is one option less. It is good for my indecisiveness.

    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    - Paladins must be lawful good, so if you went neutral you can't LR into a pally.
    You can buy an alignment change on the Store for this. Depends if you are really wanting this free pally life or not.
    Main: Amossa d'Cannith, Sarlona, casually trying Completionist [<o>]

    Almost-never-played-alts: Arquera - Chapolin - Fabber - Herweg - Mecanico - Tenma

    I want DDO to be a better game. Those are my personal suggestions on: Ammunition, Archmage, Combat Stances, Deities, Dispel Magic, Epic Destiny Map, Fast Healing, Favor, Favored Enemy, Half-elf Enhancements, Monk Stances, Past Life, Potency, Potions, Ranger Spells, Summons, Tiered Loot.

  3. #123
    Community Member Stoner81's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37
    Ring: Wise +6 of Balance +3 w/yellow augment: Deathblock
    Just had a quick look and this can be made in to Wise +6 Of Balance +7 w/ Masterful Craftsmanship and can be used by those who stop at level 15.

    Stoner81.

  4. #124

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    So I'm thinking level 16 makes the most sense for the new version of this build. You can no longer reduce ML16 challenge gear to ML14, for one, and I already ground out all that gear. heh.

    15 monk levels is a definite; quivering palm is iffy but it does work enough to warrant 15 monk levels. The last level could either be:

    Monk:
    die step increase (2.5[W] becomes 3[W], which is an average increase of +2 damage per swing)
    adamantine bypass

    Fighter:
    Bonus feat (not seeing a ton of value here; we take improved critical instead of lesser dragonmark)
    Haste boost (1 AP per rank!)
    +2 attack, +1 damage


    Those fighter benefits cost between 4 and 6 AP, depending on how high you take haste boost. So they could end up costing you some monk abilities. Of course, there isn't much that's better than tier 3 haste boost for a melee trying to beat down a boss. heh.

    Which looks better to you guys? All feedback welcome.


    Quote Originally Posted by Stoner81 View Post
    Just had a quick look and this can be made in to Wise +6 Of Balance +7 w/ Masterful Craftsmanship and can be used by those who stop at level 15.

    Stoner81.
    That's what it was originally, but when you add the yellow augment of deathblock that adds +2 potential, which is evened out by dropping the skill potential by 2. (From +7 to +3.)

  5. #125
    Community Member Stoner81's Avatar
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    Doh! Didn't think about the augment slot *facepalm* (sorry I am trying to be helpful and failing miserably )

    I think I prefer 16 Monk over 15 Monk/1 Fighter for the reasons you already stated earlier, Fighter Haste Boost is very nice though especially when coupled with Haste pots (my main fighter does this all the time) but would all that stack with Wind Stance if so then that is some seriously fast attack speed! The half die step in damage from 16 Monk is also pretty tasty too and Adamantine bypass can be achieved using alchemical wraps when needed.... oooo decisions decisions.

    Stoner81.

  6. #126

  7. #127
    Community Member Stoner81's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    Haste boost stacks with everything; it's a bonus typed as "action boost."
    Now this throws a right spanner in the works doesn't it! I love Haste Boost it's frickin' awesome, I think it might be best to wait for the enhancement pass before fully deciding on this since you/we/whatever can look at what the gains are over the losses of splashing 1 level and go from there. Not really helpful I know but it's better than nothing... just

    Stoner81.

  8. #128
    Hero nibel's Avatar
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    You forgot Rogue 1 as a posibility, for the locked gates in rushmore mansion. Also adds 1d6 sneak damage (2d6 with 2 AP on assassin tree) and Sly Flourish (+1.5[w] melee attack for 3 AP, small cooldown) or Shiv (+3[W] melee attack, cleave-like cooldown)

    I would still go with monk 16 simply for adamantine bypass, since I still use Stonedust as my main weapon.
    Main: Amossa d'Cannith, Sarlona, casually trying Completionist [<o>]

    Almost-never-played-alts: Arquera - Chapolin - Fabber - Herweg - Mecanico - Tenma

    I want DDO to be a better game. Those are my personal suggestions on: Ammunition, Archmage, Combat Stances, Deities, Dispel Magic, Epic Destiny Map, Fast Healing, Favor, Favored Enemy, Half-elf Enhancements, Monk Stances, Past Life, Potency, Potions, Ranger Spells, Summons, Tiered Loot.

  9. #129
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    Just want to say that I made one and have had so much fun I made the mistake of not staying at lvl 16 opps she might be my first tr.
    A Player of a clonk
    funniest thing I have read in a while=>
    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    we'd rather spend that development time on things most players like.

  10. #130
    Community Member Stoner81's Avatar
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    Ellis are you going to be updating this build for U19 by any chance?

    TIA.

    Stoner81.

  11. #131

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    It's last on my priority list; I've finished updating 4 of my 5 main builds, this one being 6th and not a "full" character. Currently working on the 5th. (12/8 kensei/cleric.)

  12. #132
    Hero nibel's Avatar
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    Just to inform, mine survived without a LR. We get a free feat respec from the Lesser Dragonmark (That I turned into Lightning Reflex), and could get Shintao up to Silver bypass, and Ninja up to shadow fade. I tried to fit Human GH, but not enough points left for it. Every special attack I had before I kept (Jade strike, Dismising strike, Smite Tainted Creature), and Save boost will be awesome on crucible runs and the trapped corridor in Rushmore.

    So, basically, we got a free feat, and have to rework the enhancements (and the item list, but this will take a while). Everything else stayed the same thus far.
    Main: Amossa d'Cannith, Sarlona, casually trying Completionist [<o>]

    Almost-never-played-alts: Arquera - Chapolin - Fabber - Herweg - Mecanico - Tenma

    I want DDO to be a better game. Those are my personal suggestions on: Ammunition, Archmage, Combat Stances, Deities, Dispel Magic, Epic Destiny Map, Fast Healing, Favor, Favored Enemy, Half-elf Enhancements, Monk Stances, Past Life, Potency, Potions, Ranger Spells, Summons, Tiered Loot.

  13. #133

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    I finished my fighter/cleric last night and took a first swipe at the enhancements for the monk. I ended up fitting in GH from human, but mainly because I never felt that jade strike was useful for this build:

    Human (19 AP)
    Core: Human Versatility: Damage
    Core: Human Adaptability: Wisdom
    Core: Human Versatility: Saves
    Tier 1: Orien Dragonmark Focus III
    Tier 1: Improved Recovery
    Tier 2: Lesser Dragonmark Focus
    Tier 3: Improved Recovery
    Tier 3: Heroism
    Tier 4: Improved Recovery
    Tier 4: Greater Heroism

    Shintao Monk (18 or 22 AP)
    Core: Bastion of Purity
    Core: Protection from Tainted Creatures
    Core: Iron Hand
    Tier 1: Deft Strikes III
    Tier 2: Smite Tainted Creature
    Tier 2: Conditioning III
    Tier 3: Dismissing Strike
    Tier 3: Wisdom
    (Tier 3: Jade Strike)
    (Tier 4: Wisdom)

    Ninja Spy (15 AP)
    Core: Ninja Training
    Tier 1: Sneak Attack Training
    Tier 1: Acrobatic III
    Tier 2: Sneak Attack Training
    Tier 2: Agility III
    Tier 3: Sneak Attack Training
    Tier 3: Wisdom

    Henshin Mystic (8 AP)
    Core: Riddle of Fire
    Tier 1: Way of the Tortoise
    Tier 1: Mystic Training I
    Tier 2: Contemplation III

    The extra 4 AP for taking level 16 denoted by (parentheses). This actually gives 1 more wisdom than the previous build, but those 2 AP could be spent on jade strike instead. I do use jade strike on devashta and the succubus in mansion but it never feels like it does anything. I get the impression that both of them essentially auto-save against it.

    And I have to say, I'm loving the sneak attack dice. Challenges are chock full of mobs ignoring you to beat on kobolds and extractors.

    How do your enhancements compare to this list, nibel?

  14. #134
    Hero nibel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    How do your enhancements compare to this list, nibel?


    Human (19 AP)
    Core: Human Versatility: Saves
    Core: Human Adaptability: Wisdom
    Tier 1: Orien Dragonmark Focus II
    Tier 1: Improved Recovery
    Tier 2: Lesser Dragonmark Focus
    Tier 2: Ambidexterity III
    Tier 3: Improved Recovery
    Tier 4: Improved Recovery

    Shintao Monk (25 AP)
    Core: Bastion of Purity
    Core: Protection from Tainted Creatures
    Core: Iron Hand
    Core: Argent Fist
    Tier 1: Elemental Curatives: Restoring the Balance
    Tier 1: Defensive Strikes III
    Tier 2: Smite Tainted Creature
    Tier 2: Conditioning III
    Tier 3: Dismissing Strike
    Tier 3: Wisdom
    Tier 3: Jade Strike
    Tier 4: Wisdom

    Ninja Spy (17 AP)
    Core: Ninja Training
    Core: Ninja Training II
    Core: Shadow Veil
    Tier 1: Sneak Attack Training
    Tier 1: Acrobatic III
    Tier 2: Sneak Attack Training
    Tier 2: Agility III
    Tier 3: Sneak Attack Training
    Tier 3: Wisdom

    Henshin Mystic (3 AP)
    Core: Riddle of Fire
    Tier 1: Way of the Tortoise

    Adding Remove Curse to my healing finisher might help on Shortcuts, when I fight the Horned Devil (Heal me, or remove the healing curse). Getting Ninja's shadow veil allow me to switch cloaks to something better if I find it. Argent Fist let me keep using my Stone Wraps in Shortcuts against the devils. Ambidexterity is +3 damage per hit and 3% dodge.
    Main: Amossa d'Cannith, Sarlona, casually trying Completionist [<o>]

    Almost-never-played-alts: Arquera - Chapolin - Fabber - Herweg - Mecanico - Tenma

    I want DDO to be a better game. Those are my personal suggestions on: Ammunition, Archmage, Combat Stances, Deities, Dispel Magic, Epic Destiny Map, Fast Healing, Favor, Favored Enemy, Half-elf Enhancements, Monk Stances, Past Life, Potency, Potions, Ranger Spells, Summons, Tiered Loot.

  15. #135

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    First let me say that I like your ordering better; I had the enhancements organized by order to take them, but putting all the core ones first is clearly superior. I edited mine upthread, and now I need to go edit my other build threads. heh.

    Let's take a look where we differ and see if we can hammer out the best of both worlds:


    Ellis

    Damage boost
    +1 DDoor/rest
    GH ?/rest (I'm guessing 2 or 3; a guildie got 4/rest @ 24, IIRC)
    +1 passive ki generation (similar to frozen tunic / fire stance effect, yes?)

    nibel

    +3 to-hit (ambidexterity is to-hit, not damage, according to pdf)
    silver bypass
    healing finisher removes curse
    +25% incorporeal (ghostly gives a mere 10)


    These are some tough choices. Well, human is pretty straightforward: if ambidexterity really is an attack bonus and not damage, I think my human tree is better and both spend 19 AP. Damage boost for boss fights is quite nice, and innate GH is great for if you're unlucky farming up a planar gird. But because the planar gird exists, let's pencil that 2 AP as expendable.

    I really like silver bypass for an actual character, but for a challenge farmer does it give any benefit outside of half the large extractors in short cuts? I know we run short cuts differently; I never even bother with larges in there, but you get more mats per run by turning on a large and upgrading it. Other than the 50-50 chance to fight a horned devil each large you turn on, what else in challenges warrants silver bypass?

    My farmer has two pairs of outsider handwraps: holy of bane and metalline of pure good. I don't even remember the last time I pulled out the metalline ones. Holy all by itself bypasses the dr on orthons, bearded devils and succubi.

    In the Henshin tree I'm literally throwing away the 2 AP on Mystic Training I solely to unlock Contemplation, which at tier 3 gives +3 concentration, +3 will saves and +1 passive ki generation. This may be the most valuable 5 AP in all of my trees, I think. Combined with the frozen tunic that makes 3 ki returned per hit. Mmmmmm, ki. Unless it doesn't stack with frozen tunic, in which case that's 5 AP freed up.

    Shadow Veil is so full of win I can't stand it. 25% incorporeal?! How long does it last? Is it a stance? Does it prevent positive energy healing? Is it a #/rest situation with a duration? If so, how many charges and how long per charge? That's crazy good damage mitigation. Want. Take. Have. hehheh.

    EDIT: Just tested out the passive ki regeneration. It gives nothing back on hit, so those 5 AP can be recovered without issue.

    EDIT 2: For a level 16 pure monk, the tier 5 shintao ability Empty Hand Mastery is worth 3 damage per swing. Going from 3[1d6] to 3[1d8] goes from 10.5 to 13.5 average. That would require sacrifices, but mmmm 3 base damage per hit.

    EDIT 3: Tier 3 Ambidextrous is +1 to hit, +1 damage, +1% dodge for 6 AP.

  16. #136

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    Here's what I'm thinking for that free feat we get:

    Improved Sunder (+3 to stunning fist DC)
    Luck of Heroes (+1 all saves)
    Lightning Reflexes (+2 reflex saves)
    Dodge (3% dodge, plus opens up Reed In The Wind)

    I'm leaning toward improved sunder since it gives -3 fort save defuff to mobs even if they make their saving throw. (And reduces fortification if they fail it.)

  17. #137
    Hero nibel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    I really like silver bypass for an actual character, but for a challenge farmer does it give any benefit outside of half the large extractors in short cuts?
    Bearded Devils and Orthons have DR Good or Silver. This allow me to keep my vampiric stonedust wraps while fighting them.

    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    In the Henshin tree I'm literally throwing away the 2 AP on Mystic Training I solely to unlock Contemplation, which at tier 3 gives +3 concentration, +3 will saves and +1 passive ki generation. This may be the most valuable 5 AP in all of my trees, I think.
    My experience with passive ki regeneration is that usually it is not worth it. When I solo challenges, usually my ki bar is almost full all the time, and ki regen just makes your "plus" 1 point higher. Eg, usually you have a (+0) up to your Concentration value, meaning that you don't lose ki stored up to your concentration value. This will change your value to a (+1), slowly giving your free ki until you have ki equal your concentration value +1. Then where your ki would deplet (over your concentration value), it turns from (-1) to (0), allowing you to keep more ki than normal.

    With Frozen Tunic I usually have more ki than I need.

    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    Shadow Veil is so full of win I can't stand it. 25% incorporeal?! How long does it last? Is it a stance? Does it prevent positive energy healing? Is it a #/rest situation with a duration? If so, how many charges and how long per charge? That's crazy good damage mitigation. Want. Take. Have. hehheh.
    It is a self buff that lasts one minute and cost 15 ki. No drawbacks. And when you cast it, you also gets invisibility (that one expires on attack as normal).

    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    EDIT 2: For a level 16 pure monk, the tier 5 shintao ability Empty Hand Mastery is worth 3 damage per swing. Going from 3[1d6] to 3[1d8] goes from 10.5 to 13.5 average. That would require sacrifices, but mmmm 3 base damage per hit.
    I noticed that on top too. But 32 AP on Shintao, plus all goodies in Ninja Spy, is a bit hard to fit while keeping all the goodies in the human tree. Tough choice.

    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    Improved Sunder (+3 to stunning fist DC)
    Sunder gives extra DC for Quivering Palm, not stun.
    Last edited by nibel; 08-23-2013 at 08:31 AM.
    Main: Amossa d'Cannith, Sarlona, casually trying Completionist [<o>]

    Almost-never-played-alts: Arquera - Chapolin - Fabber - Herweg - Mecanico - Tenma

    I want DDO to be a better game. Those are my personal suggestions on: Ammunition, Archmage, Combat Stances, Deities, Dispel Magic, Epic Destiny Map, Fast Healing, Favor, Favored Enemy, Half-elf Enhancements, Monk Stances, Past Life, Potency, Potions, Ranger Spells, Summons, Tiered Loot.

  18. #138

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    Quote Originally Posted by nibel View Post
    Bearded Devils and Orthons have DR Good or Silver. This allow me to keep my vampiric stonedust wraps while fighting them.
    I use +5 Holy of Evil Outsider Bane wraps against evil outsiders. I would think stonedust wraps suboptimal for them. If I need more than healing touch to stay up I switch to Holy of (Lesser) Vampirism, depending on exactly how much help I need. (Devashta fight I typically start off with holy of full vampirism wraps.) Holy of Bane gives +16 damage per hit over stonedust.

    I don't even use stonedust for trash anymore; mostly I use +5 screaming of pure good, and then holy of lesser vampirism if I'm taking samage.

    It is a self buff that lasts one minute and cost 15 ki. No drawbacks. And when you cast it, you also gets invisibility (that one expires on attack as normal).
    Yeah, it's pretty sweet.

    I noticed that on top too. But 32 AP on Shintao, plus all goodies in Ninja Spy, is a bit hard to fit while keeping all the goodies in the human tree. Tough choice.
    It's clearly better than a sneak attack die, for example. Right now the biggest issue is trying to fit in 32 shintao, shadow veil and GH at the same time while keeping above 400 HP on level 16. (Had to take 16 to equip the challenge gear.)

    Sunder gives extra DC for Quivering Palm, not stun.
    Improved Sunder reduces fort saves by 3 even if they save. That's +3 to stun and palm. You're thinking of the Shatter item effect, which does indeed buff palm. (And does that mean our spare hand now buffs palm too? *fingers crossed*)

  19. #139
    Hero nibel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    Holy of Bane gives +16 damage per hit over stonedust.
    My major issue is that I don't like to switch weapons a lot while playing. Keeping a vampiric weapon as my main allow me to largely ignore my health bar. The healing curse is good enough to keep me up against bosses (for who I do have specific beaters), but trash dies too fast to properly heal via curse.

    I understand the reason why it might not be important to you. Its just my personal style.

    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    I don't even use stonedust for trash anymore; mostly I use +5 screaming of pure good, and then holy of lesser vampirism if I'm taking samage.
    I keep them because stoning adds helpless. And with monk 16, it is basically free extra damage, since you are not barred by the stone adamantine DR. Between manslayer, stone prison, freezing, stuns, and stun procs, the bosses are basically the only thing that can deal much damage to me. Switching the stonedust wraps for DPS wraps would take off two of those CC procs (the stone prison and the stun proc), and from my experience, I play better with the CC wraps.

    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    It's clearly better than a sneak attack die, for example.
    Raising the unarmed die to d8 is extra 3 damage per hit (since monk 16 have 3[W] base damage). A single sneak attack die is 3.5 damage on average (and we both got three tiers, for 10.5 damage). And as I said on my previous paragraph, I keep mobs helpless a LOT of time. Sneak damage is much better to me than the increased unarmed die.

    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    Improved Sunder reduces fort saves by 3 even if they save. That's +3 to stun and palm. You're thinking of the Shatter item effect, which does indeed buff palm. (And does that mean our spare hand now buffs palm too? *fingers crossed*)
    Gotcha, forgot about the fortitude debuff. It is a nice option, but I wouldn't take it myself. I'm already on my limit of melee clickies. That's why I didn't took Reed in the Wind.
    Main: Amossa d'Cannith, Sarlona, casually trying Completionist [<o>]

    Almost-never-played-alts: Arquera - Chapolin - Fabber - Herweg - Mecanico - Tenma

    I want DDO to be a better game. Those are my personal suggestions on: Ammunition, Archmage, Combat Stances, Deities, Dispel Magic, Epic Destiny Map, Fast Healing, Favor, Favored Enemy, Half-elf Enhancements, Monk Stances, Past Life, Potency, Potions, Ranger Spells, Summons, Tiered Loot.

  20. #140

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    Quote Originally Posted by nibel View Post
    My major issue is that I don't like to switch weapons a lot while playing. Keeping a vampiric weapon as my main allow me to largely ignore my health bar. The healing curse is good enough to keep me up against bosses (for who I do have specific beaters), but trash dies too fast to properly heal via curse.

    I understand the reason why it might not be important to you. Its just my personal style.
    Fair enough. I would say I rarely switch wraps. When I run short cuts, for example, I wear holy of bane and never change them. When I run disruptor, it's holy of bane (soon to be ML16 mabar wraps) and never change them. etc...

    I keep them because stoning adds helpless. And with monk 16, it is basically free extra damage, since you are not barred by the stone adamantine DR. Between manslayer, stone prison, freezing, stuns, and stun procs, the bosses are basically the only thing that can deal much damage to me. Switching the stonedust wraps for DPS wraps would take off two of those CC procs (the stone prison and the stun proc), and from my experience, I play better with the CC wraps.
    Stunning fist works well enough without the stonedust wraps, and my recollection is that the stone prison proc is pretty infrequent.

    Raising the unarmed die to d8 is extra 3 damage per hit (since monk 16 have 3[W] base damage). A single sneak attack die is 3.5 damage on average (and we both got three tiers, for 10.5 damage). And as I said on my previous paragraph, I keep mobs helpless a LOT of time. Sneak damage is much better to me than the increased unarmed die.
    What % of your attacks all told would you say qualify for sneak attack? 50%? +3 damage on every single swing is better, and by a decent margin, especially for boss fights where you rarely get any sneak at all.

    Gotcha, forgot about the fortitude debuff. It is a nice option, but I wouldn't take it myself. I'm already on my limit of melee clickies. That's why I didn't took Reed in the Wind.
    I ended up deciding on improved critical.

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