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  1. #1
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    Default Clonk or Cleric levelling

    Calling the Cleric and Clonk experts

    I am seeking some advice please - which is easier to level solo - a Pure Cleric or a Melee Clonk?


    I ask because I have a 1st life Cleric stuck at L17 that I want to get to cap. The thing is I hate being a healer so I only run him solo or when Guildies need a Divine. At cap I may TR him straight away or use him as a farmer.


    I know soloing on a Divine is supposed to be easy but as I predominantly run Sorcs, their extra SP and SLAs have made me a bit reckless with SP so I find myself sometimes short of SP. This is where I guess Clonking may help.


    The problem is there are so many different builds that its very confusing.


    I would want to mostly melee, have RS 1&2 and have nice Blade barriers - being able to group heal well isnt a factor


    Which would you say is the easier to solo of the two? If you believe it to be melee Clonk then what 32 and 34 starting stats would you use


    Many thanks

  2. #2
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    An 18/2 clonk is among the easiest characters in the game to level solo -- just take stunning fist and TWFx3, with a 16-18 WIS and enough DEX to eventually reach 17, and you're good to go. (You can even opt for a Valiance-type 17cleric/2monk/1rogue or 17cleric/2monk/1arti build for versatility.)

    Second easiest to level would be a "battle cleric" who grabs 1-2 levels of fighter to fit most of the usual melee and casting feats into his build. Here you probably max STR rather than WIS, though you'll have so much self-healing that you can easily handle almost anything above-level despite your mediocre melee DPS.

    Purely healing-specced clerics are among my least favorite characters to play solo, because you have massive overkill on the healing side of things without enough melee or offensive-casting prowess to pack much of a punch in combat. You still have divine punishment, blade barrier, etc, but you don't have the mana to use the former all that often and end up wasting far too much time kiting foes through BBs. Some people like that playstyle but it isn't my cup of tea.

  3. #3
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    It depends at which level. A pure cleric has a huge zerg advantage over a clonk at level 11 and 12, when they have BB and the clonk does not.
    Clonks are more durable then regular clerics and can handle some enemies easier then a pure cleric, but a pure cleric has the advantage of getting spells earlier.

    Both are fairly easy to level.

  4. #4
    Community Member Kinerd's Avatar
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    A caster clonk is the truth. You will still have enough melee to rock fight down the various annoying archers and whatnot that won't run through your Blade Barrier or be efficiently killed by your Divine Punishment/kills. You won't have sunk so many feats into your still ineffective melee to gimp your casting ability. You'll of course still have a very time healing groups.

    I would put divines at the second least easiest to solo, honestly (the absolute least being pure rogues pre-Radiance et al). A pure melee can grab a hireling and rely on their brute force. An arcane is just awesome. A divine's strength is healing, and if the group of one doesn't need healing that strength is neutralized. If they ever make hirelings/summons capable of doing decent melee DPS, the situation might change, but until then you shouldn't feel bad about struggling with it.

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    Regular pure clerics are a pain to level solo until you get to midlevels because they have almost no good DPS spells and bad melee. But with veteran status 2 that may not be a factor anymore. melee clerics are very very easily to level to midlevels but this ability drops as you get higher in level. The difficulty doesn't really increase as melee clerics are extremely durable and tough to kill but their DPS output is lacking at higher level content so it takes a lot longer because you have to rely on subpar melee DPS to kill all the mobs that can't be kited through a BB.

    To answer your question melee clonk sounds like its what you want. Maybe splash 2 levels of monk and then 1 level of wizard/artificer for better blade barriers. Or just go 18/2 cleric monk. Or you can go 18 cleric/ 2 fighter. I'm planning on 18 cleric/ 1 fighter / 1 barb my melee cleric's next life. There's lots of options.
    Last edited by axel15810; 09-27-2012 at 02:26 PM.

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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kinerd View Post
    I would put divines at the second least easiest to solo, honestly (the absolute least being pure rogues pre-Radiance et al).
    A divine's strength is healing, and if the group of one doesn't need healing that strength is neutralized.
    I must disagree there. How much worse is a clonks DPS compared to say a paladin or a bard or a ranger?

    Granted we are looking a things after blade barrier, but show me a class that is not a wizard or sorc that can solo any of the desert walkups faster then a cleric.

    Mr. Barbarian, well, I hope you don't let your hireling die... Or slow down so you only fight a few mobs at a time as opposed to 20 at a time. How do you like fighting in red alert - not so much eh?

    A good cleric or clonk tweaked with items will have a very easy time in the early stages of the game vs undead.
    And later on, clerics have insta kill spells as well.

  7. #7
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    Probably the easiest to solo would be a clonk that is modified a bit.

    17 cleric/2 monk/1 fighter would be optimal for the extra feats (3 bonus feats) or 1 wizard for an extra meta feat.

    Stats -

    Str - 16
    Dex - 15
    Con - 14
    Int - 8
    Wis - 16
    Chr - 8

    Need +2 tomes of course

    Feats would be Heroic levels (7 base, +2 monk, +1 fighter)

    Power attack
    toughness - Monk
    TWF
    empower healing
    ITWF
    GTWF
    IC: slashing
    Quicken
    Stunning fist - Monk

    that would leave 2 feats for whatever you wanted. Kopesh would be nice for extra dmg, or maybe Scimitars with cleave, greater cleave and overwhelming critical? Would have to drop something though


    I would do 16 in wisdom to help with spell points, although you could take and drop that to 14 and put the other points into Constitution or strength. All level ups to strength of course as with equipment and enhancements would be around 32 with very little trouble or gear. With some gearing and ED you could have 42 strength.

    16+5 (level ups) +8 item +3 exceptional +6 ED +4 tome +1 fighter enhance +1 human enhance = 42 which is quite good for a secondary melee character.
    Last edited by Mubjon; 09-28-2012 at 05:43 PM.

  8. #8
    Community Member Kinerd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stormraiser View Post
    I must disagree there. How much worse is a clonks DPS compared to say a paladin or a bard or a ranger?
    Thanks to the nigh-infinite self-healing, it doesn't really matter until you run up against something that self-heals, or even worse is also immune to Stun. I loved plinking around with my clonk, but certain quests had those monsters that just shut me down. Since you ask, I also wouldn't recommend soloing on a bard.
    Granted we are looking a things after blade barrier, but show me a class that is not a wizard or sorc that can solo any of the desert walkups faster then a cleric.
    This kind of makes my point, though. None of the desert walkups have self-healing bosses (except Maraud sort of), plus a bunch of the bosses are undead, which obviously are easy money for a cleric type. Unless you mean literal soloing, I also think you underestimate how powerful melee damage is at those levels.
    Mr. Barbarian, well, I hope you don't let your hireling die... Or slow down so you only fight a few mobs at a time as opposed to 20 at a time. How do you like fighting in red alert - not so much eh?
    One of the unexpected perks of hirelings being so very stupid is that they aren't clever enough to find new ways to die, so it's pretty easy to learn how to keep them out of harm's way.

    The central point remains, regardless of particulars: what a divine is really good at is healing other people. Take away the other people, and you're just a melee with some degree of gimp DPS.

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    You aren't really serious comparing ANY melee with casting cleric, are you ? lol

    Catacombs, Necro 1 , Delera, any undead heavy quest, double killcount of rest of the party together if you feeling lazy. Do 2 Wiz king towers while the rest do one.
    Gianthold is annoying with all the tripping and narrow corridors. I would say GH is best with group. Instakill casters, stupid glitterdust, spam greater command. Blade barrier, life is good.
    Necro 4, any aoe caster does more work than 5 melees together. In Vale you get full arsenal of instakills+ implosion, it's game over. Go solo elite Amrath if you are bored.
    Get a party for first few levels, if you get Torc and some GS+twink gear grouping is purely social and more often than not only slows you down. Just my 2 cents :-)
    Beholders are the worst if you can't instakill from invisibilty.

  10. #10
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    Wis based Clonk for sure. I did 1 Monk at lvl 1, and took my second monk lvl at 13. Which gave me melee ability for low lvl's and BB only one lvl late. But take stunning fist. With high wis and stunning wraps you can take down anything one on one. BB and Destruction are your best friends.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kinerd View Post
    Thanks to the nigh-infinite self-healing, it doesn't really matter until you run up against something that self-heals, or even worse is also immune to Stun. I loved plinking around with my clonk, but certain quests had those monsters that just shut me down. Since you ask, I also wouldn't recommend soloing on a bard.This kind of makes my point, though. None of the desert walkups have self-healing bosses (except Maraud sort of), plus a bunch of the bosses are undead, which obviously are easy money for a cleric type. Unless you mean literal soloing, I also think you underestimate how powerful melee damage is at those levels.One of the unexpected perks of hirelings being so very stupid is that they aren't clever enough to find new ways to die, so it's pretty easy to learn how to keep them out of harm's way.

    The central point remains, regardless of particulars: what a divine is really good at is healing other people. Take away the other people, and you're just a melee with some degree of gimp DPS.
    The OP mentioned soloing, so that is exactly what I mean.
    Self healing mini bosses? Destruction or DP stack.
    I'm curious to see which bosses can self heal more then regular monk handwrap DPS in a solo Elite under level 19?
    Damsel is the only one that can, and she can self heal through full tard barb swinging for a good amount of time too.

    "The central point remains, regardless of particulars: what a divine is really good at is healing other people. Take away the other people, and you're just a melee with some degree of gimp DPS"

    Should be:
    The central point remains, regardless of particulars: what a divine is really good at is casting divine spells. Take away the other people, and you're just a melee with some degree of gimp DPS and a full assortment of divine spells"

    Take a really well geared level 20 (no destinies as they can change the builds a lot) epic bard, paladin, ranger or druid and put them up against a cleric on the same gear level and see who gets more kills in any epic quest.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Encair View Post
    You aren't really serious comparing ANY melee with casting cleric, are you ? lol

    Catacombs, Necro 1 , Delera, any undead heavy quest, double killcount of rest of the party together if you feeling lazy. Do 2 Wiz king towers while the rest do one.
    Gianthold is annoying with all the tripping and narrow corridors. I would say GH is best with group. Instakill casters, stupid glitterdust, spam greater command. Blade barrier, life is good.
    Necro 4, any aoe caster does more work than 5 melees together. In Vale you get full arsenal of instakills+ implosion, it's game over. Go solo elite Amrath if you are bored.
    Get a party for first few levels, if you get Torc and some GS+twink gear grouping is purely social and more often than not only slows you down. Just my 2 cents :-)
    Beholders are the worst if you can't instakill from invisibilty.
    Exactly right.

  13. #13
    Community Member Kinerd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Encair View Post
    You aren't really serious comparing ANY melee with casting cleric, are you ? lol

    Catacombs, Necro 1 , Delera, any undead heavy quest, double killcount of rest of the party together if you feeling lazy. Do 2 Wiz king towers while the rest do one.
    Gianthold is annoying with all the tripping and narrow corridors. I would say GH is best with group. Instakill casters, stupid glitterdust, spam greater command. Blade barrier, life is good.
    Necro 4, any aoe caster does more work than 5 melees together. In Vale you get full arsenal of instakills+ implosion, it's game over. Go solo elite Amrath if you are bored.
    Get a party for first few levels, if you get Torc and some GS+twink gear grouping is purely social and more often than not only slows you down. Just my 2 cents :-)
    Beholders are the worst if you can't instakill from invisibilty.
    All I can say is you group with pretty poor melees.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stormraiser
    The OP mentioned soloing, so that is exactly what I mean.
    Well, almost everyone uses solo to mean "no other humans involved", but that applies just as easily to having a hireling or not.
    Self healing mini bosses? Destruction or DP stack.
    I was very happy to get DP on my clonk. My point is twofold:
    1. that this did not occur until level 12 at the earliest with a 3 monk splash, and even then you have 2 slots to devote to Raise Dead, True Seeing, Greater Command, Divine Punishment, Slay Living, and Spell Resistance.
    2. that even Divine Punishment is sometimes not enough to overcome some boss self-healing, especially when a significant number of feats have been devoted to meleeing.
    I'm curious to see which bosses can self heal more then regular monk handwrap DPS in a solo Elite under level 19?
    I hope you are not suggesting that clonks can generate "regular monk handwrap DPS". If so, I must leave you to it.
    Take a really well geared level 20 (no destinies as they can change the builds a lot) epic bard, paladin, ranger or druid and put them up against a cleric on the same gear level and see who gets more kills in any epic quest.
    This seems to be moving the goalposts. I thought we were talking about who solos the best, in which case I would pick the paladin or ranger: inherent self heals plus strong (though not the strongest) DPS. By comparison, a clonk has inherent self heals, middling instant kills, middling to poor DPS, and excellent party heals. Take away the party, and why wouldn't you go with the ranger/pally?

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