Overall bards aren't in the 1st tier of classes that are best at DPS, but they can be effective in a group.
Overall bards aren't in the 1st tier of classes that are best at DPS, but they can be effective in a group.
When I did an Artificer life I kept track of the stuff I disarmed. The EXP I gained from the trap-based EXP bonuses accounted for about ~2.7% of my total EXP during the journey. However, the 9 seconds (6 to search, 3 to disable) it took to disarm the 471 traps I took out on the journey took ~70 minutes of time (probably a bit more, as I had to walk to the traps), or ~1.6% of the total time the Artificer's journey (out of ~72 hours).Originally Posted by Shadow7375
If you are alone or in a small group, traps are not always a great source of EXP for the time they take to disarm.
As many posters said, Sorc with one Barb lvl might be the fastest.
I would say Wiz with Rog 2 (evasion, trap ability, good UMD) is going to be nearly on par or maybe even better than a Sorc/Barb, depending upon the playstyle of the player. Some reasons for this:
1. Traps are going to give you bonus XP in a lot of cases where you have a good group but you are the only rogue. In many cases the big farm quests (von3, xorian, wiz king) with a short man group you can get the traps while others zerg ahead and finish the quest in the same amount of time with 15% more xp as the outcome. Remember, pots increase that 15% to 19.5% xp as Pots apply to the total xp awarded.
2. You will be able to hop immediately into some quests that normally you would wait for a trapper (von5, shadow knight, tormented, etc), hence saving a LOT of time and getting things done very quickly.
3. Evasion does make leveling easier, when you are running everything elite. It is just one more "damage buffer".
4. Wizards have a bigger and more flexible toolbox that a sorc. If you know the quests well you step in with the right spell set for that quest or pick it up at the first shrine. This also can save a LOT of time when added up over a life.
5. Competant Rogues are always in demand now, even in TR groups for the most part (at least on Khyber)
Now, with that out of the way, a nice long thread should be started by someone, for the fastest leveling build for each class (assuming legend builds, decent gear, +3 supreme tome, etc.). My second completionist project is on 3rd life finishing up ED's right now, and I'm about to start down the gruel of each remaining class' grind again. Here's what I am thinking are some decent builds for fast leveling 1-20 (not even caring about lvl 21-25). A couple of these I will be using for this second project.
1. Sorc: Sorc / Barb 1 - seems a consensus on this one already
2. Wiz: Wiz / Rog 2 - arguments above. Option is Arti 2 for arcane lore and rune arms and repeater use....all extra DPS for free....but have not tried that yet so sticking with Rog.
3. Barb: Barb7/Rog7/Ftr6. I just did this life and loved it. Cleave, great cleave, whirlwind available at low levels, staff build but can use any weapon if you want. high UMD very self sufficient, all traps in game even EE traps)
4. Monk: ANY good build will be arguably fast. Although I'm going Monk 12/Rogue6/FTR2 to get cleave/great cleave, whirlwind as early as possible, all traps in game, high UMD, should be very good lvl build.
5. Pali: Pali7/Rog7/Ftr6. carbon copy of Barb above
6. Rog: Rog12/Monk6/Ftr2
7. Cleric: Clr18/Monk2.....alternative is rog2 but don't think that's going to be as soloable.
8. FVS: Pure or FVS18/Monk2
9. FTR: FTR7/Rog7/Monk6
10 Druid: Druid18/Monk2....could go rogue 2 as well. Druids are so easy and fast to lvl anyway pure. Wolf form, cleave/great cleave, reaving roar is a very fast way to run druid
11. Bard: still working on the exact bard plan.......
12. Arti: Arti18/Rog2. Evasion Arti. Arguably rog lvls are not needed its personal preference evasion or not.
13. Ranger: Ranger12/Ftr6/Rog2.....get cleave, greatcleave, whirlwind fast as possible with FTR feats. Use staves or GS/GA whatever you like. I would completely skip TWF tempest thing I think it is one of the slower things to level. Great thing about rangers though is the many shot at higher levels puts out a lot of quick DPS if you can handle the agro, it can speed things up a lot if you have decent ranged ability and know when to use ranged, when to use melee
Getting cleave/great cleave/whirlwind as soon as possible really can speed leveling up on a melee (especially if you are soloing or short manning a lot) as you have a type of AOE. But, it costs because you must have a decent AC or ability to buff (displacement, etc.) to handle the agro. Its a fun balancing act though, and if done right can really pay off in fun factor.
Last edited by Machination; 09-25-2012 at 07:49 AM. Reason: added note
RTFM on Khyber
If I want faster completions I'm using expeditious retreat / haste / shadow walk plus invisibilty to skip to the end, fascinate dashing, and charm / summon aggros and not killing things; maybe deep slumber or hypno -- depends on whether I'm CHA or STR based. That speeds up quests and saves my resources for the end in a lot of quests.
The end fights don't need the AoE damage so much if I can fascinate or charm mobs and focus melee on the bosses. Currently fascinate + TWF is what I'm doing (STR build), and I'll UMD elemental weapon on both weapons for an additional boost.
Splashing rogue 2 or 3 and fighter or barbarian 1 or 2 goes a long way to helping with feats and melee damage.
I find the fastest way to level a bard in a hurry is simply to not kill anything I don't have to, not to flower sniff, and to skip breakables. Rush the end and then deal with that. Never skip ddoor.
The problem is that this doesn't work for all quest mechanics. You must kill x number of y creatures just doesn't happen on the don't kill anything dash to the end method and it's pretty hard to protect someone on an escort quest by turning invisible and running away, so a person needs to farm quests that sprinting works in.
In the end, that leaves more quest options for fast leveling for those characters with the AoE damage potential. They also normally have higher single-target damage and many have similar benefits for invis dashing or CC.
I can solo all kinds of stuff on a bard. The speed at which I can do it is slower in some cases do to restricted damage output.
Last edited by Aashrym; 09-25-2012 at 07:56 PM.
Forgive me for what is perhaps a dumb question, but I keep seeing builds with rogue levels splashed in. How are these builds supposed to disarm higher-level traps and pick locks when they only have one or two levels of rogue? Do they require special gear or anything to be effective?
2 levels of rogue opens up rogue skills, some sneak attack and enhancements, and some evasion. So anyone with the skill points available to pay the cross class costs once those skills are open can do so.
For example, a wizard with his high INT has more skill points than he needs, splashes rogue 2, opens up the rogue list of skills but leveling as a wizard pays double purchase cost on those skills and can have the same number of ranks as a pure rogue for that higher purchase cost.
That wizard can also swap in the same gear, already uses INT (a key trap ability score), and can take insightful reflexes to take advantage of the high INT score and evasion.
Wiz18/rog2 splashes do well with traps.
A person can accomplish similar things on a bard or ranger as high skill point classes and rogue is a popular splash for them. It's also not always the traps. Sometimes it's for UMD, or some sneak attack too, for example. Disabling traps isn't a the only reason to have a rogue. Rogues can have some very high DPS in addition to the skill list.
Looked at differently you spent ~98.4% of your quest time earning just ~97.3% of your XP. This is ~1002XP/minute.
If your records are correct -- and given your reputation I feel safe in assuming that they are -- then you actually get better XP/minute doing traps than you do for the rest of the quest.
This argues that the time spent doing traps IS worth taking.
I would say WF sorc will be quickest to get to 20 IF you know the quests and are reasonably geared.
I am not sure how experienced you are with the game but for a new player I would recommend melee FvS, being melee you will be able to solo a little slower than a caster who spams AOE spells while running through. However being able to melee if you don't know a quest you will not have to worry about running out of sp or when the next shrine will be available.
Second divines are usually the most sought after class in PuGs. This will also get you into raid groups more easily at the higher levels. Although soloing is useful at times partying can be (depending on group) faster when it comes to leveling and on a first life character you will definitely want to group from mid to high levels.
Also FvS get access to blade barrier and Divine punishment which will dish out decent damage depending on the situation even if you are not caster speced.
"Focus on Adventure Not Grind"
EXP-per-Minute over the 72 hours:Originally Posted by Therigar
EXP-per-Minute = Total EXP required / time (in minutes)
EXP-per-Minute = 4378500 / 72 hours
EXP-per-Minute = 4378500 / 4320 minutes
EXP-per-Minute = 1013
EXP-per-Minute gained by disarming traps:
Trap EXP-per-Minute = EXP-per-Minute * Percent time disarming traps
Trap EXP-per-Minute = 1013 * 2.7%
Trap EXP-per-Minute = 1013 * 0.027
Trap EXP-per-Minute = 27
EXP-per-Minute lost by disarming traps:
Lost EXP-per-Minute = EXP-per-Minute * Percent time disarming traps
Lost EXP-per-Minute = 1013 * 1.6%
Lost EXP-per-Minute = 1013 * 0.016
Lost EXP-per-Minute = 16
Net EXP-per-Minute gain by disarming traps:
Net Trap EXP-per-Minute = Trap EXP-per-Minute - Lost EXP-per-Minute
Net Trap EXP-per-Minute = 27 - 16
Net Trap EXP-per-Minute = 11
So disarming the traps accounted for about 11 EXP per minute as a net gain over the character's entire questing time.
Indeed, I can not argue this. It was worth disarming the traps in terms of EXP (even when alone) for most quests. However, the net gain was not huge (which is why I said it was not always a great source of EXP).Originally Posted by Therigar
Another thing to keep in mind that my scenario was on a single-class Artificer, and thus didn't have to worry about a loss of character power in exchange for trap disarming capabilities. On a divine or arcane who takes a level of Rogue (or Artificer), the delay in spell casting may slow down questing (due to the potency of things like Acid Blast, Wall of Fire, Blade Barrier, etc.), counteracting the gain from disarming traps.
No. Those are metrics I don't have, nor am I likely to derive an estimation of.Originally Posted by Cyiwin
The trap case was special. I was purposely going after most traps when I recorded my Artificer's life. I do not have full character lives where I purposefully clear entire quests of critters or boxes.
One metric I may try and derive is the overall gains I had from Ranger Sprint Boost on my melee-based character that I recorded times for.
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