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  1. #1
    Community Member ThreeEyedBob's Avatar
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    Default DDO > Neverwinter

    Ok, so there is a new trailer out showing what they call a Guardian character in the upcoming Neverwinter game.

    Personaly when watching that trailer I lost all hope of seeing a decent D&D game. I felt it was more of a mesh between World of Warcraft style combat with console elements to it. It all seemed and sounded like a very boxed in and limited character design.

    So it was all a mix of sigh and relief on my part after watching it. Relief in that I can stick to DDO as my primary D&D online game and sigh because there is nothing new on the horizon.
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  2. #2
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    Default No ddo Killer for sure

    Neverwinter mmo.

    Got my beta key for it yesterday.
    The beta has been delayed looks like until early next year.
    Seems they are putting some sort of PVP in it and are working on the bugs.
    The same company just released Torchlight2 yesterday.
    Plus they have a Torchlight MMO in the works.
    Yes it seems very Wowish.
    I played Torchlight and have begun playing Torchlight 2.
    Seems Cryptic and Runic games have both been bought by Perfect World.
    Nothing I have seen is going to take me away from ddo.
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  3. #3
    Scholar Of Adventure & Hero Missing_Minds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dlbc View Post
    The same company just released Torchlight2 yesterday.
    Wholey owned does NOT mean same company.

    Crypic has nothing to do with Runic other than the parent company is the same.

  4. #4
    Community Member chance2000's Avatar
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    Default Follow link then look at games

    Follow the link to perfect world and at the top of the page is a drop down menu of the games

    Quote Originally Posted by Missing_Minds View Post
    Wholey owned does NOT mean same company.

    Crypic has nothing to do with Runic other than the parent company is the same.
    http://nw.perfectworld.com/
    or
    http://www.perfectworld.com/

    I could be wrong. Would not be the 1st time nore the last.
    I enjoyed playing Torchlight and ordered Torchlight2 when it was advertized.
    They did the same as Turbine with the Summer update, pre order and get a beta key.
    I was more interested in Torchlight2 than the Neverwinter MMO.
    Plus ordering Torchlight 2 thru the ad I used got it real cheap.
    They stated yesterday that a Torchlight MMO is no longer in the works
    Last edited by chance2000; 09-21-2012 at 05:51 PM. Reason: They stated yesterday
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  5. #5
    Scholar Of Adventure & Hero Missing_Minds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chance2000 View Post
    Follow the link to perfect world and at the top of the page is a drop down menu of the games
    I'm not going to call you wrong as I understand what you are thinking.

    Perfect World US is a sub company of the main Perfect World over in asia somewhere. I think they call it "international". (I'm probably wrong on that one.)

    Any who, Perfect World US bought Cryptic... 1.. 2 years ago. Cryptic is a wholly owned subsidiary of PW-US. Much how Turbine is a wholly owned subsidiary of WB.

    I'm not certain of the details, but apparently PW-US only holds a majority interest in Runic and is their publisher now.

    This is why you will see both Cryptic game and Runic games downloadable from PW. They have an interest in both being profitable. It helps their bottom line.

    And you are right about the MMO..
    http://multiplayerblog.mtv.com/2012/...ork-on-an-mmo/

    I find that rather funny as their statements fly directly against what their own "about" website says.
    http://www.runicgames.com/about
    "Their upcoming projects include an MMORPG based in the world of Torchlight to be published by Perfect World Co. Ltd."

  6. #6

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    Well, gameplay is based off of 4th edition, so combat will feel different than what we are used to in DDO. I predict it will nerf the min/max bogasity we've had here in DDO for so long. Also, what's seen in the demos are very simple zones, dummied down for an expo floor. Its also entirely based on the greatest tabletop world of all time, the Forgotten Realms. (not the crappy little end game zone we have here).

    Where this game will come alive is in the user generated content. Some old school Neverwinter 1 and 2 authors have already pledged their support. Imagine you want to create a quest as good or better than what we are used to in DDO (and with a real story line editor too). It will be possible, and without an ounce of programming knowledge. Finally a dungeon masters design kit, something I called for in DDO for years.

    I may not have much faith in Perfect World (I have none actually), but it looks like Cryptic has a winner here, one they created from the ground up. The biggest rocks left unturned as of yet are build creation/leveling, ensuring the e-store doesnt become a pay-to-win cash shop like DDO has become (sorry, but its true) and exploitation potential of the builder.

    As of right now, Cryptic is pledging all content will be FREE, including all developer and user generated content, with a way to donate to quest developers. The only items available in the e-store will supposedly be vanity and consumables.

    I say it's time to see what an engine 7+ years newer can do for Dungeons & Dragons.


    The moral fiber of this game:
    Let Cryptic create the code, but LET ME BE THE DUNGEON MASTER, and populate the world. Isn't THAT what Dungeons and Dragons was always about?

    I predict a break out smash hit here folks.


    Check out the Foundry:
    http://youtu.be/7pn7iU4EwTc
    Last edited by LeslieWest_GuitarGod; 09-21-2012 at 08:11 AM.


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  7. #7
    Community Member Beethoven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeslieWest_GuitarGod View Post

    The moral fiber of this game:
    Let Cryptic create the code, but LET ME BE THE DUNGEON MASTER, and populate the world. Isn't THAT what Dungeons and Dragons was always about?

    I predict a break out smash hit here folks.
    Actually, no. D&D has never been about /you/ being the GM. D&D (at its core) has been about a small group of like-minded players sitting together and having fun. I am not trying to troll you but make a greater point about why I am concerned (and doubtful) the Forge will be a break and smash hit. The amount of people who believe they can create high quality works of fiction, but couldn't write/story-tell themselves out of a wet paper bag if their life would depend on it is significantly larger than those who actually can write interesting quests.

    I also fear the amount of players who would like to use a device like this solely for some personal gain is larger than those who'd do it for the good of the community. Case in point, many, many years ago I ran an online (text based) DnD campaign. You'd think with the internet providing virtually unlimited access to numerous webpages dedicated to D&D modules you'd end up with lot of inspiration and flashed out adventures to run. I realized within days that it takes more time to dig through trash to find the one good one than simply creating my own. Now of course, eventually I found a couple good pages and writers who generally created good modules but their work was quickly exhausted.

    Most (if not all) past attempts of Foundry-style user content eventually had the same problems, you get several hundreds of modules but only a couple good ones; the rest were either shallow and obviously written in an attempt to exploit the system for xp loot or read like something a preschooler would do. So, ultimately you will need to filter by creators and considering how much longer it takes to write something than zerg through it you might quickly find yourself running out of content.

    So, I cannot see a Foundry system alone making (or breaking) the game. My issue with Neverwinter is that outside of the Foundry the game does not really seem to have a lot going for it. There seems less character customization than in DDO, the system is based on 4e and the combat reminds me a tad too much on WoW.

    That said, I could see myself try Neverwinter and maybe use it as platform for a static group were we play once or twice a week and "take turns" GM'ing.
    Characters on Sarlona: Ungnad (Morninglord, Wizard 17 / Favored Soul 2 / Fighter 1) -- Baerktghar (Dwarf, Paladin 18 / Fighter 2) -- Simulacruhm (Bladeforged, Artificer 16 / Paladin 3 / Wizard 1)

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  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beethoven View Post
    Actually, no. D&D has never been about /you/ being the GM. D&D (at its core) has been about a small group of like-minded players sitting together and having fun.
    Sure it is. It's a bonus when a damned good DM can take that same set of small group of like-minded players to new places every time. Now Ive been a DM and a player since 1976. The dreamweaver/storyteller role is my favorite. There's a big difference between having a good DM and a bad one. There's already a very good system in place for ensuring the good content is seen and played over bad content in Neverwinter.

    I will not sell out the D&D dreamweavers of yesterday and today. In fact I have MORE FAITH in someone like you, I or someone else I don't know over a coder who is writing bulls__t storylines like whats been done in DDO.
    Last edited by LeslieWest_GuitarGod; 09-21-2012 at 08:50 AM.


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  9. #9
    Community Member Beethoven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeslieWest_GuitarGod View Post
    Sure it is. It's a bonus when a damned good DM can take that same set of small group of like-minded players to new places every time.
    Yeah, I was being obstreperous in saying D&D is not about you (LeslieWest_GuitarGod) being a DM, but about someone taking the role of a DM were the quality of the campaign/adventure is directly dependent on the quality of the GM.

    I don't doubt that you will be able to produce quality modules. I would not hedge my bets on me because I am not being paid for it (and don't believe I would be able sustain my lifestyle by donations only), have a wife who (even though she also plays) wants attention outside the game too, friends outside the game that want me to be social, a son who started toddler soccer last week, a house (and yard) to take care of and a dog. Nevermind my capability as GM, I simply do not have the time to devote to it than someone who gets paid for it.

    My prediction is different than yours; my estimation is that the Foundry by itself will either be:
    a) so restrictive too few use it - my experience with good GMs is they want a certain amount of creative liberty in creating adventures/campaigns and if not provided with those liberties they quickly stop bother.
    b) eventually will loosen their restrictions leading to tons of modules inevitably subjecting users to spend hours searching for the one rare gem of quality content.

    I may be wrong. I hope I will be proofen wrong. I am even likely to give it a try, but I so far I simply have not heard anything that would convince me that I am wrong.
    Characters on Sarlona: Ungnad (Morninglord, Wizard 17 / Favored Soul 2 / Fighter 1) -- Baerktghar (Dwarf, Paladin 18 / Fighter 2) -- Simulacruhm (Bladeforged, Artificer 16 / Paladin 3 / Wizard 1)

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  10. #10
    Community Member Ungood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beethoven View Post
    D&D (at its core) has been about a small group of like-minded players sitting together and having fun.
    Thanks for the laugh.

    Like Minded PnP groups.. Still laughing.

  11. #11
    Founder & Hero Uska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeslieWest_GuitarGod View Post
    Well, gameplay is based off of 4th edition, so combat will feel different than what we are used to in DDO. I predict it will nerf the min/max bogasity we've had here in DDO for so long. Also, what's seen in the demos are very simple zones, dummied down for an expo floor. Its also entirely based on the greatest tabletop world of all time, the Forgotten Realms. (not the crappy little end game zone we have here).

    Where this game will come alive is in the user generated content. Some old school Neverwinter 1 and 2 authors have already pledged their support. Imagine you want to create a quest as good or better than what we are used to in DDO (and with a real story line editor too). It will be possible, and without an ounce of programming knowledge. Finally a dungeon masters design kit, something I called for in DDO for years.

    I may not have much faith in Perfect World (I have none actually), but it looks like Cryptic has a winner here, one they created from the ground up. The biggest rocks left unturned as of yet are build creation/leveling, ensuring the e-store doesnt become a pay-to-win cash shop like DDO has become (sorry, but its true) and exploitation potential of the builder.

    As of right now, Cryptic is pledging all content will be FREE, including all developer and user generated content, with a way to donate to quest developers. The only items available in the e-store will supposedly be vanity and consumables.

    I say it's time to see what an engine 7+ years newer can do for Dungeons & Dragons.


    The moral fiber of this game:
    Let Cryptic create the code, but LET ME BE THE DUNGEON MASTER, and populate the world. Isn't THAT what Dungeons and Dragons was always about?

    I predict a break out smash hit here folks.


    Check out the Foundry:
    http://youtu.be/7pn7iU4EwTc
    I predict a major flop of unheard proportions after all its cryptic+4E=utter garbage


    I wouldn't play anything of cryptics even ifthey paid me to play. Champions on line had wanting to burn down cryptic and hero games but then I am a pnp fan of champions well before SL took over.
    Last edited by Uska; 09-21-2012 at 08:58 AM.

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  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Uska View Post
    I predict a major flop of unheard proportions after its cryptic+4E=utter garbage
    Haha what would you like to bet, my friend Uska?

    (I have never liked a Cryptic or PW game. Cant stand Chinese MMO culture. Refuse to play 4e at the table and always will. But Cryptic is making Neverwinter in the good ole US of A with WotC, and I think it will make a great accompaniment to DDO.)
    Last edited by LeslieWest_GuitarGod; 09-21-2012 at 08:54 AM.


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  13. #13
    Founder & Hero Uska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeslieWest_GuitarGod View Post
    Haha what would you like to bet, my friend Uska?

    (I have never liked a Cryptic or PW game. Cant stand Chinese MMO culture. Refuse to play 4e at the table and always will. But Cryptic is making Neverwinter in the good ole US of A with WotC, and I think it will make a great accompaniment to DDO.)
    Well for me wotc=a huge minus now to after making 4e without much input from input from anyone including play testers and making 5e which isn't going to be much better but then I prefer 1st Ed for dnd and if there was a world of hack Kraft game I would be there rather than here just because of wotc




    I would rather be playing hackmaster

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  14. #14
    Founder & Hero Vordax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uska View Post
    Well for me wotc=a huge minus now to after making 4e without much input from input from anyone including play testers and making 5e which isn't going to be much better but then I prefer 1st Ed for dnd and if there was a world of hack Kraft game I would be there rather than here just because of wotc
    Have you looked at 5e yet Uska? You can go over to the wizards site and download the playtest material right now. Its definitely a step up from 4e and gives me that 1st-2nd edition vibe too.

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  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Uska View Post
    Well for me wotc=a huge minus now to after making 4e without much input from input from anyone including play testers and making 5e which isn't going to be much better but then I prefer 1st Ed for dnd and if there was a world of hack Kraft game I would be there rather than here just because of wotc
    You need to understand I have zero respect for 4e. Its D&D for Dummies, etc etc. Others will staunchly state it isnt, but that's what it is for me. I will never play it, create for it, on the table, ever.

    However, after being a diehard DDOer for all this time, just like you've been, and hating 4e, just like you've stated, I still see a shining light for this game.

    Now, you'll never hear me say Neverwinter will kill off DDO, that would be ridiculous. DDO will be here for years to come. I'll be playing DDO on its last day of existence.

    However, DDO must change, and has, and will change again if they do the UI/enhancement shuffle. Its not the same game it was, for good and bad. We still have to run the same quests we ran in 2006/7/8/9/10/11 etc to level a toon, over and over and over again. Sure you can buy your way past doing some of the quests, but the grind never seems to go away. The quest selection, still paltry considering the instanced beauty of the game. The camaraderie, the combat, the sence of community are HUGE in DDO. All will all keep me as a player.

    Neverwinter takes the bold step of handing us a blank sheet of paper and a pen. It gives us a set of rules. Then its up to us to generate something good. If you cant stand or don't have time to design content, others with more time, and/or more knowledge of the lore will be ahead of you designing.

    So for the DDO crowd, 4e will be a big hurdle. I have learned a bit from multiple sources very close to the design team what's in store for Neverwinter. I'll be (closed) beta testing as well. This game will be dripping in D&D lore, far more so than DDO has ever been.

    The ones that already made up their minds because they've been burned by Perfect World or Cryptic in past efforts, or HATE 4e, I can totally understand. I wish I could layout all the meat and potatoes about the game, but we don't have them yet. I just ask as many as possible to be open minded, and give it an honest chance when it finally does releases. You just might be surprised. I know I was when a friend insisted I try a game from Turbine called Dungeons & Dragons Online.


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  16. #16
    Community Member ThreeEyedBob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeslieWest_GuitarGod View Post
    Well, gameplay is based off of 4th edition, so combat will feel different than what we are used to in DDO. I predict it will nerf the min/max bogasity we've had here in DDO for so long. Also, what's seen in the demos are very simple zones, dummied down for an expo floor. Its also entirely based on the greatest tabletop world of all time, the Forgotten Realms. (not the crappy little end game zone we have here).

    Where this game will come alive is in the user generated content. Some old school Neverwinter 1 and 2 authors have already pledged their support. Imagine you want to create a quest as good or better than what we are used to in DDO (and with a real story line editor too). It will be possible, and without an ounce of programming knowledge. Finally a dungeon masters design kit, something I called for in DDO for years.

    I may not have much faith in Perfect World (I have none actually), but it looks like Cryptic has a winner here, one they created from the ground up. The biggest rocks left unturned as of yet are build creation/leveling, ensuring the e-store doesnt become a pay-to-win cash shop like DDO has become (sorry, but its true) and exploitation potential of the builder.

    As of right now, Cryptic is pledging all content will be FREE, including all developer and user generated content, with a way to donate to quest developers. The only items available in the e-store will supposedly be vanity and consumables.

    I say it's time to see what an engine 7+ years newer can do for Dungeons & Dragons.


    The moral fiber of this game:
    Let Cryptic create the code, but LET ME BE THE DUNGEON MASTER, and populate the world. Isn't THAT what Dungeons and Dragons was always about?

    I predict a break out smash hit here folks.


    Check out the Foundry:
    http://youtu.be/7pn7iU4EwTc
    I hate to break it to you but I think you have a bit of a rose tinted view on whats to come with Neverwinter. I can absolutely guarantee you that you will NOT have freedom to design as a dungeon master. All content created by players will follow strict regulations and control.
    Member and owner of "The Mad Midgets" of Khyber.
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  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThreeEyedBob View Post
    I hate to break it to you but I think you have a bit of a rose tinted view on whats to come with Neverwinter. I can absolutely guarantee you that you will NOT have freedom to design as a dungeon master. All content created by players will follow strict regulations and control.
    I have in fact followed it very closely, daily in fact. And I can create a text adventure right up to a quest longer and harder than any quest in DDO, and with potentially better graphics and less lag. Neverwinter has a real solution to the typical grind, and will have more quests in its first year than DDO has had in seven. Now, what has Turbine done about the grind, realistically?


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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeslieWest_GuitarGod View Post
    Now, what has Turbine done about the grind, realistically?

    Made it worse. The ED grind in this game is insane.
    Personal d000m level: 83%

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  19. #19
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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ylmYK...eature=related

    Another video on combat.

    If its free, I might load it up. Sometimes you need a break from one game to play another. I would say DDO is more D&D and I dont like the FR's as much as I like Eberron.
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  20. #20
    Community Member Dawnsfire's Avatar
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    I'll be trying Neverwinter when it eventually comes out. I'd be lying if I said Cryptic + PW + 4e doesn't make me really nervous but I enjoyed NWN online too much not to try.

    Quote Originally Posted by Torc View Post
    I’m only nerfing you now so I can buff you later.

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