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  1. #1
    Community Member ThreeEyedBob's Avatar
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    Default DDO > Neverwinter

    Ok, so there is a new trailer out showing what they call a Guardian character in the upcoming Neverwinter game.

    Personaly when watching that trailer I lost all hope of seeing a decent D&D game. I felt it was more of a mesh between World of Warcraft style combat with console elements to it. It all seemed and sounded like a very boxed in and limited character design.

    So it was all a mix of sigh and relief on my part after watching it. Relief in that I can stick to DDO as my primary D&D online game and sigh because there is nothing new on the horizon.
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  2. #2
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    Default No ddo Killer for sure

    Neverwinter mmo.

    Got my beta key for it yesterday.
    The beta has been delayed looks like until early next year.
    Seems they are putting some sort of PVP in it and are working on the bugs.
    The same company just released Torchlight2 yesterday.
    Plus they have a Torchlight MMO in the works.
    Yes it seems very Wowish.
    I played Torchlight and have begun playing Torchlight 2.
    Seems Cryptic and Runic games have both been bought by Perfect World.
    Nothing I have seen is going to take me away from ddo.
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  3. #3

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    Well, gameplay is based off of 4th edition, so combat will feel different than what we are used to in DDO. I predict it will nerf the min/max bogasity we've had here in DDO for so long. Also, what's seen in the demos are very simple zones, dummied down for an expo floor. Its also entirely based on the greatest tabletop world of all time, the Forgotten Realms. (not the crappy little end game zone we have here).

    Where this game will come alive is in the user generated content. Some old school Neverwinter 1 and 2 authors have already pledged their support. Imagine you want to create a quest as good or better than what we are used to in DDO (and with a real story line editor too). It will be possible, and without an ounce of programming knowledge. Finally a dungeon masters design kit, something I called for in DDO for years.

    I may not have much faith in Perfect World (I have none actually), but it looks like Cryptic has a winner here, one they created from the ground up. The biggest rocks left unturned as of yet are build creation/leveling, ensuring the e-store doesnt become a pay-to-win cash shop like DDO has become (sorry, but its true) and exploitation potential of the builder.

    As of right now, Cryptic is pledging all content will be FREE, including all developer and user generated content, with a way to donate to quest developers. The only items available in the e-store will supposedly be vanity and consumables.

    I say it's time to see what an engine 7+ years newer can do for Dungeons & Dragons.


    The moral fiber of this game:
    Let Cryptic create the code, but LET ME BE THE DUNGEON MASTER, and populate the world. Isn't THAT what Dungeons and Dragons was always about?

    I predict a break out smash hit here folks.


    Check out the Foundry:
    http://youtu.be/7pn7iU4EwTc
    Last edited by LeslieWest_GuitarGod; 09-21-2012 at 08:11 AM.


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  4. #4
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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_p_xhMPk3C4

    Combat actually looks really lame. Foundry looks cool though.
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  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ape_Man View Post
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_p_xhMPk3C4

    Combat actually looks really lame. Foundry looks cool though.
    Actually thats just the guardian fighter. Those crappy sparklies are on sliders, so they can be adjusted or turned off (unlike the chest sparklies and other "BS girlie code" Turbine is thrusting upon our game of late). A "tank" will be quite useful in Neverwinter, unlike the sideshow fad it's been in DDO (for the most part).

    There is a greater weapon fighter which will debut soon (which will look more like what we are used to what a fighter looks like in DDO) and many other classes added, game isnt set for release until sometime in 2013.


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  6. #6
    Community Member Phemt81's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ape_Man View Post
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_p_xhMPk3C4

    Combat actually looks really lame.
    You must like auto-attack and target fight style.

    The video shows a very good graphic and real time combat, with the chance to use the skills and melee special attacks in a very dynamic way, so that your timing really matters while fighting. That' s what an arcade is supposed to be asked to do.

    That's what dungeons and dragons becomes when you put real time combat in it.
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    We absolutely planned for Fighter to still have Haste Boost. It's absolutely a bug. Any similar issues that look "wrong" to any player should be bugged.
    Developers should fix this

  7. #7
    Hero LOOON375's Avatar
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    Default

    A lot different from DDO, but it's the first MMO since I started playing this one that looks acceptable, that I will probably give it a shot.
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  8. #8
    Community Member Beethoven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeslieWest_GuitarGod View Post

    The moral fiber of this game:
    Let Cryptic create the code, but LET ME BE THE DUNGEON MASTER, and populate the world. Isn't THAT what Dungeons and Dragons was always about?

    I predict a break out smash hit here folks.
    Actually, no. D&D has never been about /you/ being the GM. D&D (at its core) has been about a small group of like-minded players sitting together and having fun. I am not trying to troll you but make a greater point about why I am concerned (and doubtful) the Forge will be a break and smash hit. The amount of people who believe they can create high quality works of fiction, but couldn't write/story-tell themselves out of a wet paper bag if their life would depend on it is significantly larger than those who actually can write interesting quests.

    I also fear the amount of players who would like to use a device like this solely for some personal gain is larger than those who'd do it for the good of the community. Case in point, many, many years ago I ran an online (text based) DnD campaign. You'd think with the internet providing virtually unlimited access to numerous webpages dedicated to D&D modules you'd end up with lot of inspiration and flashed out adventures to run. I realized within days that it takes more time to dig through trash to find the one good one than simply creating my own. Now of course, eventually I found a couple good pages and writers who generally created good modules but their work was quickly exhausted.

    Most (if not all) past attempts of Foundry-style user content eventually had the same problems, you get several hundreds of modules but only a couple good ones; the rest were either shallow and obviously written in an attempt to exploit the system for xp loot or read like something a preschooler would do. So, ultimately you will need to filter by creators and considering how much longer it takes to write something than zerg through it you might quickly find yourself running out of content.

    So, I cannot see a Foundry system alone making (or breaking) the game. My issue with Neverwinter is that outside of the Foundry the game does not really seem to have a lot going for it. There seems less character customization than in DDO, the system is based on 4e and the combat reminds me a tad too much on WoW.

    That said, I could see myself try Neverwinter and maybe use it as platform for a static group were we play once or twice a week and "take turns" GM'ing.
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeslieWest_GuitarGod View Post
    Actually thats just the guardian fighter. Those crappy sparklies are on sliders, so they can be adjusted or turned off (unlike the chest sparklies and other "BS girlie code" Turbine is thrusting upon our game of late). A "tank" will be quite useful in Neverwinter, unlike the sideshow fad it's been in DDO (for the most part).

    There is a greater weapon fighter which will debut soon (which will look more like what we are used to what a fighter looks like in DDO) and many other classes added, game isnt set for release until sometime in 2013.
    I hope whomever invented the 'DPS - TANK - HJEALS' model for MMO game play dies of a horrible disease while on fire.

    It is retarded.

    It has always been retarded.

    It makes no sense, don't make me post a picture of Chewbaca to make my point.

    DDO has it right in that that role is rarely needed.

    Don't get me wrong, there's a lot of stuff DDO has wrong, but trying to move away from "traditional" MMO "role" is a great.
    Last edited by Ape_Man; 09-21-2012 at 08:38 AM.
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  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ape_Man View Post
    I hope whomever invented the 'DPS - TANK - HJEALS' model for MMO game play dies of a horrible disease while on fire.

    It is retarded.

    It has always been retarded.

    It makes no sense, don't make me post a picture of Chewbaca to make my point.

    DDO has it right in that that role is rarely needed.
    Oh Im with you a thousand percent when it comes to that role part, I despise 4e.

    However, when it comes to coding an MMO it makes a lot more sense. Look at what we do anyway when we play challenging content in DDO, we establish ROLES. It doesnt mean everyone is a cookie cutter. It can simply draw the lines of efficiency and/or teamwork.


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  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beethoven View Post
    Actually, no. D&D has never been about /you/ being the GM. D&D (at its core) has been about a small group of like-minded players sitting together and having fun.
    Sure it is. It's a bonus when a damned good DM can take that same set of small group of like-minded players to new places every time. Now Ive been a DM and a player since 1976. The dreamweaver/storyteller role is my favorite. There's a big difference between having a good DM and a bad one. There's already a very good system in place for ensuring the good content is seen and played over bad content in Neverwinter.

    I will not sell out the D&D dreamweavers of yesterday and today. In fact I have MORE FAITH in someone like you, I or someone else I don't know over a coder who is writing bulls__t storylines like whats been done in DDO.
    Last edited by LeslieWest_GuitarGod; 09-21-2012 at 08:50 AM.


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  12. #12
    Community Member Cyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ape_Man View Post
    I hope whomever invented the 'DPS - TANK - HJEALS' model for MMO game play dies of a horrible disease while on fire.

    It is retarded.

    It has always been retarded.

    It makes no sense, don't make me post a picture of Chewbaca to make my point.

    DDO has it right in that that role is rarely needed.

    Don't get me wrong, there's a lot of stuff DDO has wrong, but trying to move away from "traditional" MMO "role" is a great.
    Yet, the devs have been making the tank role dramatically better update after update.

    Stalwart Defenders ARE other the same idea as other MMO tanks. Big bonuses to defenses...so much so that when a tank is a good idea you look for the SD.

    The entire defensive rework was a huge boost to tanks as is epic elite design with massive incoming physical damage.

    Meanwhile the same expack gave us spell power with the idea that healers would use their hand slots to carry a healing stick.

    It is also fairly obvious that there is a tanking destiny and a few dps destinies...
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  13. #13
    Founder & Hero Uska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeslieWest_GuitarGod View Post
    Well, gameplay is based off of 4th edition, so combat will feel different than what we are used to in DDO. I predict it will nerf the min/max bogasity we've had here in DDO for so long. Also, what's seen in the demos are very simple zones, dummied down for an expo floor. Its also entirely based on the greatest tabletop world of all time, the Forgotten Realms. (not the crappy little end game zone we have here).

    Where this game will come alive is in the user generated content. Some old school Neverwinter 1 and 2 authors have already pledged their support. Imagine you want to create a quest as good or better than what we are used to in DDO (and with a real story line editor too). It will be possible, and without an ounce of programming knowledge. Finally a dungeon masters design kit, something I called for in DDO for years.

    I may not have much faith in Perfect World (I have none actually), but it looks like Cryptic has a winner here, one they created from the ground up. The biggest rocks left unturned as of yet are build creation/leveling, ensuring the e-store doesnt become a pay-to-win cash shop like DDO has become (sorry, but its true) and exploitation potential of the builder.

    As of right now, Cryptic is pledging all content will be FREE, including all developer and user generated content, with a way to donate to quest developers. The only items available in the e-store will supposedly be vanity and consumables.

    I say it's time to see what an engine 7+ years newer can do for Dungeons & Dragons.


    The moral fiber of this game:
    Let Cryptic create the code, but LET ME BE THE DUNGEON MASTER, and populate the world. Isn't THAT what Dungeons and Dragons was always about?

    I predict a break out smash hit here folks.


    Check out the Foundry:
    http://youtu.be/7pn7iU4EwTc
    I predict a major flop of unheard proportions after all its cryptic+4E=utter garbage


    I wouldn't play anything of cryptics even ifthey paid me to play. Champions on line had wanting to burn down cryptic and hero games but then I am a pnp fan of champions well before SL took over.
    Last edited by Uska; 09-21-2012 at 08:58 AM.

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  14. #14
    Bwest Fwiends Memnir's Avatar
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    I think comparing DDO and Neverwinter will wind up being a lot like comparing apples to raspberries.

    Sure, they are both red and fall under the Fruit name - but after that the differences are myriad and many. There will certainly be people who vastly prefer one to the other. Many may even enjoy both. And that's okay. But apple will never replace the raspberry in things were a raspberry is better - and vice versa.


    I don't think NW will be a large threat to DDO, I really don't. They will appeal to different people - or at least to the same people in different ways. Just like apples and raspberries. Both red, both fruit, both tasty - but really vastly different things.
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  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Uska View Post
    I predict a major flop of unheard proportions after its cryptic+4E=utter garbage
    Haha what would you like to bet, my friend Uska?

    (I have never liked a Cryptic or PW game. Cant stand Chinese MMO culture. Refuse to play 4e at the table and always will. But Cryptic is making Neverwinter in the good ole US of A with WotC, and I think it will make a great accompaniment to DDO.)
    Last edited by LeslieWest_GuitarGod; 09-21-2012 at 08:54 AM.


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  16. #16
    Community Member ThreeEyedBob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeslieWest_GuitarGod View Post
    Well, gameplay is based off of 4th edition, so combat will feel different than what we are used to in DDO. I predict it will nerf the min/max bogasity we've had here in DDO for so long. Also, what's seen in the demos are very simple zones, dummied down for an expo floor. Its also entirely based on the greatest tabletop world of all time, the Forgotten Realms. (not the crappy little end game zone we have here).

    Where this game will come alive is in the user generated content. Some old school Neverwinter 1 and 2 authors have already pledged their support. Imagine you want to create a quest as good or better than what we are used to in DDO (and with a real story line editor too). It will be possible, and without an ounce of programming knowledge. Finally a dungeon masters design kit, something I called for in DDO for years.

    I may not have much faith in Perfect World (I have none actually), but it looks like Cryptic has a winner here, one they created from the ground up. The biggest rocks left unturned as of yet are build creation/leveling, ensuring the e-store doesnt become a pay-to-win cash shop like DDO has become (sorry, but its true) and exploitation potential of the builder.

    As of right now, Cryptic is pledging all content will be FREE, including all developer and user generated content, with a way to donate to quest developers. The only items available in the e-store will supposedly be vanity and consumables.

    I say it's time to see what an engine 7+ years newer can do for Dungeons & Dragons.


    The moral fiber of this game:
    Let Cryptic create the code, but LET ME BE THE DUNGEON MASTER, and populate the world. Isn't THAT what Dungeons and Dragons was always about?

    I predict a break out smash hit here folks.


    Check out the Foundry:
    http://youtu.be/7pn7iU4EwTc
    I hate to break it to you but I think you have a bit of a rose tinted view on whats to come with Neverwinter. I can absolutely guarantee you that you will NOT have freedom to design as a dungeon master. All content created by players will follow strict regulations and control.
    Member and owner of "The Mad Midgets" of Khyber.
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  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Memnir View Post
    I think comparing DDO and Neverwinter will wind up being a lot like comparing apples to raspberries.

    Sure, they are both red and fall under the Fruit name - but after that the differences are myriad and many. There will certainly be people who vastly prefer one to the other. Many may even enjoy both. And that's okay. But apple will never replace the raspberry in things were a raspberry is better - and vice versa.

    I don't think NW will be a large threat to DDO, I really don't. They will appeal to different people - or at least to the same people in different ways. Just like apples and raspberries. Both red, both fruit, both tasty - but really vastly different things.
    I agree. Both Turbine and Cryptic are working hand in hand with WotC. I think there is plenty of room for both games to survive and I predict many in the DDO universe will be giving Neverwinter a shot. So it is a threat,much more than any other MMO to date, but its in no way a DDO killer. A little competition between dueling developers can't hurt right now, as long as Turbine doesnt forget its roots, its awesome 3.5 inspired combat.


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  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThreeEyedBob View Post
    I hate to break it to you but I think you have a bit of a rose tinted view on whats to come with Neverwinter. I can absolutely guarantee you that you will NOT have freedom to design as a dungeon master. All content created by players will follow strict regulations and control.
    I have in fact followed it very closely, daily in fact. And I can create a text adventure right up to a quest longer and harder than any quest in DDO, and with potentially better graphics and less lag. Neverwinter has a real solution to the typical grind, and will have more quests in its first year than DDO has had in seven. Now, what has Turbine done about the grind, realistically?


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  19. #19
    Scholar Of Adventure & Hero Missing_Minds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dlbc View Post
    The same company just released Torchlight2 yesterday.
    Wholey owned does NOT mean same company.

    Crypic has nothing to do with Runic other than the parent company is the same.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyr View Post
    Yet, the devs have been making the tank role dramatically better update after update.

    Stalwart Defenders ARE other the same idea as other MMO tanks. Big bonuses to defenses...so much so that when a tank is a good idea you look for the SD.

    The entire defensive rework was a huge boost to tanks as is epic elite design with massive incoming physical damage.

    Meanwhile the same expack gave us spell power with the idea that healers would use their hand slots to carry a healing stick.

    It is also fairly obvious that there is a tanking destiny and a few dps destinies...
    I have a very well equipped stalwart defender fighter.

    I've done every quest in MoTU on EE, most of the raids on EE, as well as most of the legacy quests on EE. Most of the time we did NOT have a tank. it absolute would have made some of the content easier but there were other ways to get things done.

    The fact that the quests have been completed without having a tank means a tank isn't needed. Yeah, my evasion-stalwart makes EE Chrono easier but no PRR barbarians have tanked this as well as we've completed fine.

    You can change EDs whenever you want between missions, YOU get to choose the "role" you want to fill for a particular quest, you have the flexibility to change to chatever is needed at that time.
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