We really do.
DDOGamer explains why.
(This is part 1 of the Saving PvP series)
TBH balancing the classes just for PVP like other boring MMOs will be the last thing me and a lot of others desire from DDO. However, IMHO if DEVs allocate little XP and Guild Renown for PVP, that might attract a lot of players into it.
I'll agree on one point at least. If we theoretically had a well balanced pvp system, it could be nothing but good for the health of the game. The 2 main points against pvp seem to be the inability to balance the classes to be even remotely playable against eachother and the "dev time" argument.
Since the devs can't get PvE class balance right (specifically caster vs. melee), I have no faith they could get PvP balance right. I'm assuming that any PvP specific balance is reserved for PvP and PvE would be untouched as a result.
I have no counterpoint to the "dev time" argument. Any time spent on PvE has to be seen as extremely productive by the community as a whole to be considered worthwhile. That would be a tough thing to do.
My suggestion? Ignore the 1 on 1 aspects of PvP and focus on the group aspects. 6 on 6 has much more potential to be enjoyable in the right circumstances and balancing for larger parties is easier as you don't have to worry as much about one shot kills destroying one side so totally. Give me a capture the flag team match in the Rushmore Mansion instance and I could see playing it occasionally. The strategy involved in putting together a well balanced group for the challenge at hand could be part of the enjoyment.
Kaarloe - Degenerate Matter - Argonnessen
I think your 5 points describes pretty well just why pvp isn't being developed further;
quoted from linked page, my answers in green
1 Start with the assumption that we all want the game to continue, remain fun, and to receive a stream of new content.
2 Then consider that the sole requirement for this assumption is that there are enough paying customers to justify additional investment.
3 Now ponder the fact that PvP players are in fact, players, and therefore, potentially income producers. We can all agree that more players is better than less players.
Turbine likely monitors how active the pvp is in the game and there's your answer, there isn't enough players to justify further development
4 Now consider development efficiency: as a system, PvP does not require the same kind of monthly hand-crafted attention that other types of new content require. Get PvP right, once, and you can leave it be for awhile. Versus a new quest that will need to be replaced with an even newer quest in the next update.
5 Finally, consider replayability. If PvP can be made fun, it will always be like that, replayable infinitely without further dev interaction.
Serious pvp requires constant re-balancing, I have yet to see a game that has "done it right once". The answer again is that Turbine and Warner has likely already done the math and deemed it non profitable, endless replay ability is likely also not considered a positive from the corporate view unless it requires constant micro transactions from the players and that would likely require stronger incentives than fun and no loot for pvp and then pvp will start to affect the rest of the game, something that I'm sure many of the players (that Turbine seems to deem profitable) wouldn't want.
The ones you have to convince isn't the players not liking pvp (and I don't see the hate you mention, it's just that people don't care and play better suited games for pvp) it's Warner and Turbine.
Last edited by legendlore; 09-19-2012 at 08:09 AM.
the writer of that article has a weak point.
Sure, we should up the PvP to get PvP players. More players= more money.
So, we should also have ponies. And more gore, and machine guns, and F1 cars, and plumbers, and a birds eye view space shooting aspect of the game.
We all know, unless you provide all aspects of gaming your game will fail..... erm.... hmm.
The writer still misses the main point. DDO was not designed for PvP and balancing it, anymore then it is alread (which is not very) would be a nightmare.
Just like when I want to play a car racing game I go play a game designed for racing cars, if I wanted to play PvP I would go play a game designed for it.
EDIT: Just realised the writer of that article is the OP. lol DOH!... my point stands though.... and referencing your own websites not evidential
Last edited by Aurora1979; 09-19-2012 at 08:36 AM.
One easy way I see to balance PVP is to set up maybe 3 seperate types of PVP...seperate instances:
Have a Melee Pit where only melee based toons can enter. Basically turn off offensive spells and healing spells and ranged combat. Any class can enter, but only Buffs spells will work and Hand to Hand Combat.
Have a Ranged pit (Same as above, but turn on ranged combat...and also allow melee combat)
3rd Pit would be anything goes. ALL spells would be available, All combat styles available...no restrictions.
I don't beleive this would be difficult to program and might add a little bit of balance.
Leader - Legion of Eberron (Cannith)
If the PvP'ers paid to play it, while still keeping the brawl pits for testing, then there could be no complaints about dev time. Also, the company could expand the department to fit in with the demand if nessecery.
I always get criticised because PvPers want their cake for free.
I still think a PvP only pack would be a good idea. Then we could see, once and for all, if there really are enough PvPers in the game to warrant investing in developing it.
Personally, I think there is not. But that way we could see, and finally close this argument.
<seemingly offensive Army of Darkness quote>
Wrong at least to me pvp wont save this game but it wont kill it either wasting dev on pvp will kill it for me though
and more players arent always better considering some of the pvp diehards I have seen here and in other games its why I came to a game that origianlly had zero pvp and thankfully still has little
Last edited by Uska; 09-19-2012 at 09:38 AM.
The ANTI-Realms FANBOI NUKE THE REALMS ITS THE ONLY REAL WAY TO BE SURE
Yes, the average PvPer in this game has the budget and behavior of a 12 year old. "Saving the game" by ruining it even more doesn't seem like a very good idea. I'd rather see Turbine banish all the PvPers to a separate server. Maybe we could rescue the Wayfinder players to a more populated server, and send all the PvPers there.
They could balance the classes -within the PVP area-, that shouldn't upset anyone.
We need to save racing.
Yes, there are not many of us, but there are some that loves racing.
Turbine must impement more tracks and vehicles (like mounts, flying carpets and dracoliches).
It is all for good of game.
PvPers, its time to ante up, with the only vote that matters to Turbine: $.
PvP is almost non-existant in DDO.
There is no reason to save something that never really was alive in the game in the first place.
If you want to make a cohesive argument about how massively changing the game to play as an actually fun pvp game is good for it I would be interested in reading it.
Proud Recipient of At least 8 Negative Rep From NA Threads.
You can't have a PvP game if there are only east coast servers because it will only be playable for east coast players. So this will never happen. Not to mention significant changes to hit detection of melee player characters vs other player characters. Not understanding these issues shows the author is extremely naive about PvP games (I have a history of about 18 years in multiplayer PvP games)
This form's session has expired. You need to reload the page.Reload