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  1. #1
    The Hatchery karl_k0ch's Avatar
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    Default New Tenser's - the revenge of the Tukaws?

    With the revamp of Tenser's Transformation, arcane melee builds seem to become more viable, and in particular Sorc/Paladin/Rogue splashes might become more interesting now. There seem to be two popular splits, namely 12 Sorc/6Pal/2 Rog and 16/2/2.

    The former has more melee power (DoS and Divine Righteousness), but can only afford one level 6 spell, i.e. either reconstruct or Tenser's. Scrolling Tenser's means a boost for 1 minute and 6 seconds.
    The latter one makes less use of the paladin splash, but has buffs which last longer. Are there more notable differences between these two builds?
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  2. #2
    Community Member wax_on_wax_off's Avatar
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    I thought about the theme quite a few times and kept coming back to 18 sorcerer/2 paladin as the best split. No evasion means you can skip straight to Adamantine Plating (the ASF is very manageable with AP and cannith crafted gear) and the 18 caster levels makes penetrating spell resistance much easier except in EN/EH content. The real reason of course is the tier 3 savant which is just so strong. Finally, spell slots for some combination of Energy Drain, Polar Ray, Black Dragon Bolt, Symbol of Death, Otto's Irrestible Dance and others goes a long way.

    The TT buff killed the WF 12 Sorc builds IMO as its silly not to be able to take that spell when if extended it lasts decently long, if you're scrolling it then you might as well be another class.
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  3. #3
    Community Member Nephilia's Avatar
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    Yay for no need to craft alchemical something for stat anymore!
    I'll buy a bunch of this scroll for my tank and I'll enjoy the +4 str/cos
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  4. #4
    Community Member daniel7's Avatar
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    New TT and Epic Destiny Draconic is definitely some real motivation for battle mages, Tukaws and Pale Master monks come to mind. I'd pick Tukaw if you plan to do mostly EE and PM if you prefer EN and EH.

    Wax has a good point though...maybe more 18sorc/2X builds
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  5. #5
    Community Member Myrdinn's Avatar
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    Default wiz12/monk6/ftr2

    I found out yesterday that the change to Tenser just give another boost to my Wiz/monk build. My build use mostly buff to kill, and draconic incarnation for AOE dmg, and have quite decent dmg output. This change to tenser just give me +4 to str/con, full bab and +6 ac for 3min25, which is quite good and on par with my haste and displacement, so all in all, Im quite happy with it

    Xalekk - 18pal/2rog Xalek - 18barb/2rog
    Xalekia - 18Rng/1Mnk/1Rog Alekian - 12wiz/6mnk/2ftr
    Cynvan - 18Clr/2Mnk Aleathiel - 20 sorc

  6. #6
    Community Member donfilibuster's Avatar
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    The only complains i have heard are from pure casters wanting to play battlecaster, but clearly the most gain is in multiclassing.
    (just scrolling with UMD gives a good bonus of course)

    For pure caster the niche seems to be while around lv 11 when the spell is top level.
    It's in endgame/epic where it alone might be too little, without a larger multiclassing for a PrE or something.
    Surely it'd take some days of testing for people to make builds around it.

  7. #7
    The Hatchery Dielzen's Avatar
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    I'm looking at a 14sorc/3pal/3rog combo -- I gain d6 SA, disease immunity, and Extra LoH 1 enhancement over the 16/2/2 combo and still have enough caster levels to do decent spell DPS. In addition, I can slot both Tenser and Recon (which is really the main reason) for good duration Tenser, unlike the 12/6/2.

    My only debate right now is which PL to put on the character first, as I have a couple lvl 9/10 alts that I can make have whatever PL is best. Sorcerer or Wizard seem best for the "throw Firewall and melee in it" approach, I guess.

  8. #8
    Community Member EpiKagEMO's Avatar
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    Tensers lasts the same as the old divine power clikies. Might be a good idea to buy scrolls now.

    However, according to wiki, the cool down for spells last longer. If a Tukaw/Arcane Knight tank can endure damage from elite/epic content for 10 seconds or more, tensers wouldn't be a bad idea. Also, scrolling in a middle of a fight is a pain without a decent concentration.

    WOWO makes a good point here: "The TT buff killed the WF 12 Sorc builds IMO as its silly not to be able to take that spell when if extended it lasts decently long, if you're scrolling it then you might as well be another class."

    I imagine my rogue with tensers. +4 str xD
    A rogue is basically, "Look at me or die."

  9. #9

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    I’m liking it on my Artificer.
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  10. #10
    Community Member Myrdinn's Avatar
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    I think that the 12wiz/6mnk/2ftr is the one benefitting the most from this, mostly because his healing come from the death aura which need to be cast only once per 2 min, compared to healing from a wf with reconstruct.

    Xalekk - 18pal/2rog Xalek - 18barb/2rog
    Xalekia - 18Rng/1Mnk/1Rog Alekian - 12wiz/6mnk/2ftr
    Cynvan - 18Clr/2Mnk Aleathiel - 20 sorc

  11. #11
    Community Member RabidApathy's Avatar
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    The hit to the stacking DOTs is pretty big, but otherwise it looks good. May have to avoid Tenser's for boss fights in order to get that added DPS from DOTs.

  12. #12
    Community Member Loriac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wax_on_wax_off View Post
    I thought about the theme quite a few times and kept coming back to 18 sorcerer/2 paladin as the best split. No evasion means you can skip straight to Adamantine Plating (the ASF is very manageable with AP and cannith crafted gear) and the 18 caster levels makes penetrating spell resistance much easier except in EN/EH content. The real reason of course is the tier 3 savant which is just so strong. Finally, spell slots for some combination of Energy Drain, Polar Ray, Black Dragon Bolt, Symbol of Death, Otto's Irrestible Dance and others goes a long way.

    The TT buff killed the WF 12 Sorc builds IMO as its silly not to be able to take that spell when if extended it lasts decently long, if you're scrolling it then you might as well be another class.
    I was looking at this question too, but came to the conclusion that I prefer the 18sorc / 2 rog split. The reason the Tukaw build has 2 Pal is for saves. With EDs and twists, you can grab +12 to reflex and +6 to fort quite easily. Throw in a force of personality to shore up the wis save, and you can get nice saves (albeit still lower than a 2pal splash). I put up a thread with an outline build when I saw the changes about to be made to tensers, as I agree with the OP that it could be a significant change for arcane melees. I think you can get reflex to 45ish without too much effort, and the other saves to 40ish. I'm not sure that these numbers are high enough for epic elite however, and if they're not then I could see the 2 pal levels as being necessary.

    The original tukaw relied heavily on guard procs as I understand it, so I'm in two minds about the utility of adamantine plating. You're likely to have stoneskin up all the time on this type of build, so the dr from the plating is useless too. It also costs a feat and a fair amount of ap to get ASF down.

  13. #13
    Community Member FranOhmsford's Avatar
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    Everybody's talking about Warforged?!?

    What about Elves???

    Come on, this is meant to be D&D - The Elven Fighter/Mage is a staple archetype going back all the way.

    Drow too of course.

  14. #14
    Community Member RabidApathy's Avatar
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    Because the Tukaw was an icon.

    That said, a Wraith Elf gish, rocking Tenser's seems like it ought to work just fine

  15. #15
    The Hatchery RabidKoala's Avatar
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    If Tenser's is a alchemical bonus then would it stack with divine power? If so then should you try working that into there?


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  16. #16
    Community Member FengXian's Avatar
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    Funny I'm leveling 12/6/2 sorc/ranger/monk build atm, it was already decent, this should make it even better
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