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  1. #1
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    Default Bravery Bonus, Bug or exploit?

    I ask because I now realize that the bug I complained about 2 days ago, that nobody cared about, might be an exploit.

    So, the game is not reading completions in regards to bravery bonus. I wrote about this two days ago, and one other forumite confirmed. At least in the new pack.

    This bugs me because I want to run Overgrowth on normal, for the ML 22 Wall of Wood. I'd much prefer 20% heal amp than 30%. And I don't want to get rid of my BB to do it.

    Anyway, after completing on Heroic Elite, which I did so I could run it on another setting without getting rid of my BB streak, I saw that it didn't work. Then I ran it on Epic Hard, again when going in on Epic Normal, it didn't work. It still gives the warning that I would lose my Bravery Bonus. It is confirmed that it is not a visual error.

    But I realized, what I actually did, was an exploit, not a bug.

    Since I first did it on Heroic, as a level 24, I should NOT have gotten a bravery bonus when doing it on Epic Hard. BUT I DID. On accident of course, I didn't really think about it at the time, but it was an exploit. I got a bonus I didn't qualify for (and didn't want, btw).

    I didn't think about it at the time... but then I realized, after it STILL didn't let me complete on Epic Normal without reseting BB, that maybe my BB would still apply if I went in on another setting. So I went in on Epic Elite. And BB was still applying. This would have been my third completion. I didn't complete (I didn't think I could solo EE... though who knows).

    So, Devs, this is no longer a bug that hurts players. It is an exploit. Maybe you'll fix it now.

    I know at least one other person confirmed this in the new quest pack. I wonder if it is true in all quest packs, or just these? Some confirmation would be nice.

    Oh, and I'll bug report this the day they fix the bug reporter in game.

    P.S. I do NOT want to exploit the game. I want to be able to run it on EN without getting rid of my BB streak. It's pretty high right now, and I enjoy that, mostly for sentimental reasons. Also, I absolutely loathe exploits. But I also know that the Devs will do nothing to fix a bug unless I can find a way to turn it into an exploit. Which is sad.
    Last edited by countfitz; 09-13-2012 at 01:13 AM.

  2. #2
    Community Member Shade's Avatar
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    It's not possible to "accidently" exploit. You have to be purposely abusing things over and over, thats the whole meaning of the term. Misusing the term isnt gona magically get the devs to act faster.

    And in this case, what happened was neither an exploit, nor a bug.

    It's a feature. Bravery bonuses are meant to be seperate for heroic and epic.

    Hard bravery breaking on EN after having run EH is a bug though. And no there is nothing thing you can do to prevent that if you wish to complete the quest. Though if you do break it now by doing EN, any streaks you set later wont be broken again on future runs on EN.. As it currently coded to break based on the completion counter, if its 1 or higher, it wont break (counter always reads 0 if its first time bonus, regardless of previous completions).

    Though as far as farming that shield goes, you can safely do that without breaking it, because the shield drops out of an optional chest that appears before the quest completes (before you even engage the final boss). So you can easily farm it, loot it and finish out maintaining your streak.
    Last edited by Shade; 09-14-2012 at 09:09 AM.

  3. #3
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Not an exploit. If they dont want people running the quest for this amount of extra XP they can close it down. Theres no way for the player to prevent the bug from happening other than to not run the quest, which isnt fair when people pay to play the game.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
    It's not possible to "accidently" exploit. *snip*
    It's not? I seem to remember a certain "event" a year or two ago...
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  5. #5
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    Tangent: I don't know anything about the bug, but I am wondering why 20% heal amp would be preferable to 30% heal amp? I don't understand the thinking and would like to.
    Turtel, Turtley Wrath, Tortoisse, Waterssong, Victerr Creed, Utahraptor, Velocaraptor, Minddancer, Loggerhead, Matamata, Sulcata, Ticerratops, Sierrann, Hankx, Shartelhane

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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrinityTurtle View Post
    Tangent: I don't know anything about the bug, but I am wondering why 20% heal amp would be preferable to 30% heal amp? I don't understand the thinking and would like to.
    Many people already have 30% amp on another item. Like the purple dragon gauntlets.

  7. #7
    Community Member xoowak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrinityTurtle View Post
    Tangent: I don't know anything about the bug, but I am wondering why 20% heal amp would be preferable to 30% heal amp? I don't understand the thinking and would like to.
    The purple dragon gauntlets have 30% and are trivial to get. 20% is much harder to slot now.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
    It's not possible to "accidently" exploit. You have to be purposely abusing things over and over, thats the whole meaning of the term. Misusing the term isnt gona magically get the devs to act faster.

    And in this case, what happened was neither an exploit, nor a bug.

    It's a feature. Bravery bonuses are meant to be seperate for heroic and epic.

    Hard bravery breaking on EN after having run EH is a bug though. And no there is nothing thing you can do to prevent that if you wish to complete the quest. Though if you do break it now by doing EN, any streaks you set later wont be broken again on future runs on EN.. As it currently coded to break based on the completion counter, if its 1 or higher, it wont break (counter always reads 0 if its first time bonus, regardless of previous completions).

    Though as far as farming that shield goes, you can safely do that without breaking it, because the shield drops out of an optional chest that appears before the quest completes (before you even engage the final boss). So you can easily farm it, loot it and finish out maintaining your streak.
    Let me be more specific.

    I can get bravery bonus TWICE. Once on EH, and then again on EE. If that is WAI, then I guess I am misinformed, and this is only a bug. But I'm pretty sure, in the past, I could only get one BB in a quest per life.

    I have a SS, but I'm on break at work right now, but you can trust me, I got the EH bravery bonus, then went in (didn't complete) on EE, just to see if it was bugged, and it ALSO was going to give me a BB, it said "Your streak continues" or whatnot.

    Pretty sure it is a "minor" exploit. You can get another 25% BB from that, if you have a Hard BB and do a quest on hard, then again on Elite.

    If that was always the way it was and WAI, I guess I only noticed it now because of the bug that makes me lose my BB by going in on normal, and never really paid any attention before this.

    Oh, and thanks for the advice, I just farmed the Wall of Wood, and got it! 5 EN attempts, without completing, since it was the optional chest. I figure that "lost" me about 80k XP, BUT, that was my choice, and I didn't "really" lose anything, I decided not to lose my BB instead of gaining XP. Anyway, I'm 'not' as upset now, I can make up that XP in one VoN run, so no biggy.

    Edit: Oh, and to your first point, yeah, you're definitely right, I did not actually exploit anything. First, I'd have to have KNOWN it was an exploit beforehand, and second, I would have had to complete on EE, which I didn't anyway, half because I don't like exploits, but mostly because, I didn't want to add to ransacking the chest.
    Last edited by countfitz; 09-14-2012 at 12:24 PM.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrinityTurtle View Post
    Tangent: I don't know anything about the bug, but I am wondering why 20% heal amp would be preferable to 30% heal amp? I don't understand the thinking and would like to.
    What Xoo said.

    I have the PDK set equipped, so that is the 30% gauntlets, with Str and Con and Inherent Str and Con with the helmet, plus a really decent set of armor that, more importantly (to me) LOOKS FREAKING AWESOME (probably the only thing I LOVE about U14 and U15 is the art department, PROPS!) and the set bonus is another +3 attack/damage which, for a battle cleric with a lower BAB, is a nice little addition.

    So I either needed 20% or 10% Heal Amp. So I 'could' also farm for the Herioc Normal version, but that shield is 'barely' better than my current Bijio.

    The LvL 22 Wall of Wood heals MY TOON for more than the LvL 24 version with stacking Heal amp.

    I give up a little healing towards others, but the math of it works so that 20% Heal Amp vs. 12 Spell Power, the Heal Amp is well beyond it for my toon (I do a lot of soloing, and if 72 Spell power, which I had before this, was enough in a raid, than 102 or 114 really doesn't matter 'too' much).
    Last edited by countfitz; 09-14-2012 at 12:27 PM.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by countfitz View Post
    So I either needed 20% or 10% Heal Amp. So I 'could' also farm for the Herioc Normal version, but that shield is 'barely' better than my current Bijio.
    Tangent: Healing Amp drops on armor and bracers now, called 'Convalescent'. Bracers like Lesser Convalescent (10%) of Superior Parrying (Insight +4 AC/Saves) or the same with Convalescent (20%) isn't such a bad wrist item (unless that'd wreck a set or cause other gearing stress).
    Last edited by rimble; 09-14-2012 at 01:20 PM.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by countfitz View Post
    But I realized, what I actually did, was an exploit, not a bug.
    It sounds like what you did was describe in detail exactly how you committed an exploit. Careful, or you'll get banned.

  12. #12
    Community Member theslimshady's Avatar
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    maybe it to make up for the fact that the heroic xp for that chain is terrible

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