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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ew_vastano View Post
    you are not the first to think it and definatly not the first to acualy quite game after running it once
    Personally, I would never quit a game after running a raid just once.

    Give it some time, it is quite manageable and even fun when you get the hang of it. It is (for me) a refreshing break from the standardized boss beatdowns.

    My first run was an almost two-hour long, nerve breaking marathon that cost me about 6 pots (I know, I know)

    Yesterday's run was a very smooth one, took about 40 minutes, and 4 items dropped

    Just run it and don't listen to all the negativity.

  2. #62
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    Well, I'm not saying I'm going to quit at once. Other adventures from the pack are most decent, wilderness areas are ATM best in the game, but that raid... Even in the raid there are some interesting ideas, the problem is with putting them into the game. I think that it is partly a result of setting a stiff deadline for pack's release. Turbine obviously learned the lesson as Rohan's release has been delayed, but the raid still looks the way it looks.

  3. #63
    Community Member Matsu_Ieyasu's Avatar
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    I have only completed the raid a dozen times so I am no expert but I am weighing in here anyways, so your milage may vary.

    There are two types of Party Leaders for this raid; ones that have a plan and can control the party AND ones without a plan or cannot control the party.

    Several people have talked about "lag" in this quest and I have seen several lag wipes, including one last night, but the problem is the lagfest is usually a result of a party leader who has no plan or lets everyone or someone zerg.

    Strategy (at least on Epic Normal from what I seen) makes this an easy smooth run. I was in a run last week that took ~40 minutes, slightly more than 300 kills, no pots, two shrines and we got six items out of six chests.
    Yet one chucklehead running ahead can totally mees this up as demonstrated last night in a 2 hour marathon in which dozens of pots drank and god knows how many shrines resulting in a wipe when eighty gazillion mobs spawned for the last fight. And the part that urked me was 11 people were telling the chucklehead to get a clue but he was soooooo uber he didn't need to listen.

    In addressing the OP when talking about strategy the party leader needs to develop a plan for the raid and that should start with party makeup. The party I was in last week that was extremely successful the party leader was talking about all the people he declined, everyone of them because he didn't have the class listed in the LFM. I even got a tell from a Monk, whom I did not know, complaining that the party I was in was messed up because the leader didn't want another Monk in the party. Like telling me that Monk=Cowbell matters to the raid leader.

    I am not saying the raid is perfect and I think it could have been a lot better and think if the staff at Turbine had the time some effort into the raid would go a long way to making it one of the more like raids in the game.
    • The raid starting location should be changed more like the public zone for TOD OR the initial entry point once inside the raid should be changed since the path has changed because the Demonweb no longer supports raids.
    • The zone should be larger and more random.
    • There should be chests with each destroyed artifact and less chests at the end
    • XP should be looked at how it is rewarded.
    • The raid loot needs a good once over to make it well more desirable or useful to a larger percentage of the player base.
    • Not a big fan of stationary Lolth, maybe the Spinner of Shadows instead for the final raid boss.
    Last edited by Matsu_Ieyasu; 09-10-2012 at 10:15 AM.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azaghan View Post
    Personally, I would never quit a game after running a raid just once.

    Give it some time, it is quite manageable and even fun when you get the hang of it. It is (for me) a refreshing break from the standardized boss beatdowns.

    My first run was an almost two-hour long, nerve breaking marathon that cost me about 6 pots (I know, I know)

    Yesterday's run was a very smooth one, took about 40 minutes, and 4 items dropped

    Just run it and don't listen to all the negativity.
    the reason said person quit game soon as running raid once was quote :-

    " i have never seen such a blatant rip off ie:- "come buy lots of sp pots from the store" as this raid and a straight money making scam from turbine"

    logged off and nvr been back

    on the other hand i am one of the few on argo that has done raid on elite 5 hours, 40 pots, 177 deaths and 0 loot
    and have got hard down to around 45 mins, very few pots, 2 shrines and as normal 0 loot

    and the 0 loot is the main crux of the problem with this raid, why run my cleric, drink even 1 pot when even if loot drops (wich is very rare 4 items across 6 chests with 12 people to me is as close to 0 loot as you can get) there is absolutly nothing for my cleric
    Last edited by Ew_vastano; 09-10-2012 at 10:47 AM.
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  5. #65
    Community Member Rian's Avatar
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    Well, at least Turbine game my ranger something else to be good at...

    Babysitting Ana.

    The times I have run the raid on my ranger I have been responsible for her well being.
    While I don't mind the majority of the time, the fact that one person gets stuck babysitting is just irritating.

    Also the fight against Lolth was cool the first time, the second time it was underwhelming, and from there on out it was just irritating and wondering where the uberness of Turbine has gone.
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  6. #66
    Community Member Fomori's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matsu_Ieyasu View Post
    In addressing the OP when talking about strategy the party leader needs to develop a plan for the raid and that should start with party makeup. The party I was in last week that was extremely successful the party leader was talking about all the people he declined, everyone of them because he didn't have the class listed in the LFM. I even got a tell from a Monk, whom I did not know, complaining that the party I was in was messed up because the leader didn't want another Monk in the party. Like telling me that Monk=Cowbell matters to the raid leader.
    There are really 2 main types of leaders. Those that are successful with a specific party makeup and those that can take a generally biased list and succeed despite players shortcomings. In your example above the leader was type 1. That is fine, and he is probably a good leader, but type 2 is the kind of leader you want to have most of the time. They are also more likely to succeed if the battle plan goes askew as well.

    I think a better quality of a DDO leader is the ability to communicate rather than micromanaging classes. If you are a good communicator you can get your assets where you need them when you need them. I've been in several raids where the leader picked and chose their spots and not only did we wait a while, but we failed as well, because they couldnt communicate properly when things went south. Then to top it off, they blamed the failure on the "lack of <blah>" in the party, instead of themselves.

    When I play DDO I silently thank any leader that biases me out of their party because I honestly think gives me a better chance to succeed if another group pops up.
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  7. #67
    The Hatchery danotmano1998's Avatar
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    This raid on normal isn't that hard.

    It's about 1.5 hours or so, can be done with a pug, and has been completed successfully twice without the use of potions or expensive resource requirements.

    Even quicker times can be achieved with practice and good listening skills. 3 completions later, I've personally seen 4 named items drop from them. Not a single run has been skunked for loot.

    The only real annoyances I have with this raid are:
    1. Lolth's sp drain. Just get rid of this. (No, it doesn't work like it was supposed to, Lolth can still hit you from 30 miles away when you're standing behind a rock minding your own business. I have no illusion you guys can make this work like it was supposed to back when the raid was explained. Things shoot through walls all the time, just something that we have to live with in DDO I guess. So LOSE THE SP DRAIN PLEASE.)
    2. Spawning traps that appear from thin air for no reason. Just get rid of these. They add zero fun and make no sense whatsoever.
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    Dude, did you see they way that guy just pressed button 1? It was amazing! A display of skill unseen since the 1984 World Games where in the men's room, between events, a man washed his hands with such unbridled majesty that people were claiming the faucet he used was OP.

  8. #68
    Community Member Matsu_Ieyasu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fomori View Post
    There are really 2 main types of leaders. Those that are successful with a specific party makeup and those that can take a generally biased list and succeed despite players shortcomings. In your example above the leader was type 1. That is fine, and he is probably a good leader, but type 2 is the kind of leader you want to have most of the time. They are also more likely to succeed if the battle plan goes askew as well.

    I think a better quality of a DDO leader is the ability to communicate rather than micromanaging classes. If you are a good communicator you can get your assets where you need them when you need them. I've been in several raids where the leader picked and chose their spots and not only did we wait a while, but we failed as well, because they couldnt communicate properly when things went south. Then to top it off, they blamed the failure on the "lack of <blah>" in the party, instead of themselves.

    When I play DDO I silently thank any leader that biases me out of their party because I honestly think gives me a better chance to succeed if another group pops up.
    This is where I disagree with your statement. And I am going to use my two examples again, even though they might be a little extreme.

    Player 1, the organized leader, knew what "jobs" needed to be done and what "functions" could handle each job. In our case when none of the melees that were in the party early [edit: before filling] on could handle the Hand of Lolth he modified the LFM and noted what he was looking for.

    Player 2, took basically whoever hit the LFM, when it cam time to deal with the hand, basically no one could. There was no discussion about it before hand, the hand popped up and he shouted something akin to "someone with Intim take the hand". No one in our party had enough Intim to pull the hand, then the Sorc tried with Meteor Storm, then ...

    I don't need to go through the other fiascos.

    I would join player's 1 party again and would have to give a long thought to player 2.

    The other thing you bring up is that player's putting up LFM's should just take whoever hits the LFM, again we disagree. There is such a thing of too much cowbell in the orchestra, it's up to the player putting up the LFM to determine what is a good mix. I realize you can complete CITW or any raid with any 12 characters (to a point) but if taking 5 to 10 extra minutes to fill cuts off 20 to 30 minutes of completion time by getting a better mix then it is time well spent.
    Last edited by Matsu_Ieyasu; 09-10-2012 at 01:07 PM. Reason: typo

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by danotmano1998 View Post
    1. Lolth's sp drain. Just get rid of this. (No, it doesn't work like it was supposed to, Lolth can still hit you from 30 miles away when you're standing behind a rock minding your own business. I have no illusion you guys can make this work like it was supposed to back when the raid was explained. Things shoot through walls all the time, just something that we have to live with in DDO I guess. So LOSE THE SP DRAIN PLEASE.)
    but then you wouldnt be forced to buy sp pots
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  10. #70
    Community Member djl's Avatar
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    I would still like to seem them overhaul how the Heroic Coms are used.
    Last edited by djl; 09-10-2012 at 05:43 PM.

  11. #71
    Community Member Singular's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matsu_Ieyasu View Post
    There are two types of Party Leaders for this raid; ones that have a plan and can control the party AND ones without a plan or cannot control the party.
    That's, uhm, three types.


  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Singular View Post
    That's, uhm, three types.

    There are 10 kinds of people in the world...
    <seemingly offensive Army of Darkness quote>

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dandonk View Post
    There are 10 kinds of people in the world...
    Those who say there are 10 kinds and those who don't.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Singular View Post
    Those who say there are 10 kinds and those who don't.
    Those who count in binary and those who don't
    <seemingly offensive Army of Darkness quote>

  15. #75
    Community Member barecm's Avatar
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    The one glaring error to this new raid is that there is no incentive for a healing type to run this raid. There are no items at all in the loot table for healers. I know more than a few good healers who simply could be bothered. That is not very good at all for anyone.
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