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  1. #1
    Community Member ferd's Avatar
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    Thumbs down Caught in the web second worst raid in game

    *edit* This thread is not about my character or the party leaders, but rather where this raid ranks as far as raids go**


    When a fully geared maxed out SD III S&B build w/ 93 ac, 1300 hp, 85 prr, 82 intim gets turned down for a raid because the leaders of this new "Coyle" style raid says sorry, we only need one intim.
    Thats a bad thing.
    Sorry if you cant kick in 20 mana pots, you can't come. is another issue.

    Oh sure most anyone can get in on a normal "training" run. But what's the point of that if no named items drop on that setting. (as proven by players)

    I say second worst, because of the lack of items that drop from Titan. Otherwise the new raid most certainly takes top honors as worst raid ever.

    Sorry Turbine, I didn't make it, but I sure can complain about what a complete fail it is from a players standpoint.

    And the player who posted the screen shots of a 20th & 40th completion end rewards confirmed the lack of tomes needs a gold star. The "new" end game raid not giving a + 4 tome for a 20th is absurd.

    Turbine, this was supposed to be your new shining star in the gaming world, what happened?
    Last edited by ferd; 09-04-2012 at 09:41 AM.


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  2. #2
    The Hatchery danotmano1998's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ferd View Post
    Oh sure most anyone can get in on a normal "training" run. But what's the point of that if no named items drop on that setting. (as proven by players)

    I say second worst, because of the lack of items that drop from Titan. Otherwise the new raid most certainly takes top honors as worst raid ever.

    Sorry Turbine, I didn't make it, but I sure can complain about what a complete fail it is from a players standpoint.
    Just for the sake of a differing viewpoint, I *CAN* confirm that in 2 completions of the raid on NORMAL, I have seen exactly 3 (three) named weapons. 2 of which got passed to me accidentally, one I kept. The shining star shortsword one.

    I don't know who is proving what exactly, but I do know what I have personally seen.
    Yeah, the raid has some annoying qualities, but honestly, it's not nearly the disaster I've seen some people spell it out to seem like.
    (Important props !! to the people who ran it first and bug reported it so that it could be what it is now. I can't imagine the frustration of being first and having it mess up. Thanks to you brave souls!)

    This from a guy who couldn't even stand the concepts behind this new raid, which should say something to you.

    In the 3 attempts on the raid on normal, only the first one failed, due to not knowing what to do when. Both successive completions were with 1/2 pugs and 1/2 guildies. There are lots of tactics needing to be used, lots of communication, lots of things going on. It's quite doable, and even can be fun if you have the right perspective.

    *waves Jedi hand*
    This is not the pug you are looking for.
    If you're ever on Thelanis, you are welcome to join in the fun. I think our guild will be running it semi-regularly.
    Last edited by danotmano1998; 09-04-2012 at 09:21 AM.
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  3. #3
    Community Member Fomori's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ferd View Post
    When a fully geared maxed out SD III S&B build w/ 93 ac, 1300 hp, 85 prr, 82 intim gets turned down for a raid because the leaders of this new "Coyle" style raid says sorry, we only need one intim.
    Thats a bad thing.
    Sounds like bad leaders.

    I know the expected thing is to rag on the raid because all the cool kids are doing it. However I dont find this to be as annoying as the haters are saying. Sure, its not very "raid" like if you still think the only raids are the WoW style ones. Raids need to die, in all games. It was a cool concept in its day. Something new should be designed to help propel games forward or we are going to get stuck in a rut.

    As far as this one goes there are some annoying parts, mainly the unneeded hand. Its main purpose seems to be to kill those without a deathblock item... Perhaps if it was able to be dealt with in any way except kiting it there might be a point.

    Other than that I enjoy the quest. Though I have to say I've never been the Ana babysitter. I'm sure that spot is utterly boring as well, so maybe that is an issue as well. Loot wise the weapons feel cool, with varied abilities, but I'm not sure of their actual usage value.

    Thus the raid may not be popular, because its doesnt make one feel all uber and special for doing it, but there are far worse quests in the game. To call it "bad" is simply making a judgement against your personal bias of what you expect a "good" raid to be, and not an arbitrary assessment of the overall value of the quest.
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  4. #4
    Community Member djl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ferd View Post
    When a fully geared maxed out SD III S&B build w/ 93 ac, 1300 hp, 85 prr, 82 intim gets turned down for a raid because the leaders of this new "Coyle" style raid says sorry, we only need one intim.
    Thats a bad thing.
    Sorry if you cant kick in 20 mana pots, you can't come. is another issue.

    Oh sure most anyone can get in on a normal "training" run. But what's the point of that if no named items drop on that setting. (as proven by players)

    I say second worst, because of the lack of items that drop from Titan. Otherwise the new raid most certainly takes top honors as worst raid ever.

    Sorry Turbine, I didn't make it, but I sure can complain about what a complete fail it is from a players standpoint.

    And the player who posted the screen shots of a 20th & 40th completion end rewards confirmed the lack of tomes needs a gold star. The "new" end game raid not giving a + 4 tome for a 20th is absurd.

    Turbine, this was supposed to be your new shining star in the gaming world, what happened?
    Well, you should have thanked them for not including you because they sound like horrible leaders. You do not need Intim at all in that raid-- the hand follows for a very short time and switches aggro so often even with Intim that it's better now to completely ignore it and go to the next part of the quest. By the time you get there, the hand goes away.

    Also, I've found that difficulty plays no role in drop rates. I've been in a skunk run on EHard and seen three items drop on ENorm.

  5. #5
    Hero DemonStorm333's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ferd View Post
    When a fully geared maxed out SD III S&B build w/ 93 ac, 1300 hp, 85 prr, 82 intim gets turned down for a raid because the leaders of this new "Coyle" style raid says sorry, we only need one intim.
    Thats a bad thing.
    Sorry if you cant kick in 20 mana pots, you can't come. is another issue.

    Oh sure most anyone can get in on a normal "training" run. But what's the point of that if no named items drop on that setting. (as proven by players)

    I say second worst, because of the lack of items that drop from Titan. Otherwise the new raid most certainly takes top honors as worst raid ever.

    Sorry Turbine, I didn't make it, but I sure can complain about what a complete fail it is from a players standpoint.

    And the player who posted the screen shots of a 20th & 40th completion end rewards confirmed the lack of tomes needs a gold star. The "new" end game raid not giving a + 4 tome for a 20th is absurd.

    Turbine, this was supposed to be your new shining star in the gaming world, what happened?
    running with my guild we usually pull named items every time we run it on norm and u dont need 20+ pots bc u can use shrines and as we have found seems to no longer affect what loot u get just as long as she is over 75% health u will get 6 chests and even still we have had her at like 5 % health and still got 5 chests with 2 named items that dropped
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  6. #6
    Community Member ferd's Avatar
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    I can't fault the party leader. it was on EH or leet,

    The point is, the raid needs some love.

    **The same people that will rebut my thread are also the same people that flamed Turbine when the raid was released.**

    *original thread has an amendment*
    Last edited by ferd; 09-04-2012 at 09:41 AM.


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  7. #7
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    You're not missing much, the drops are terrible.
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  8. #8
    Community Member djl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ferd View Post
    The "new" end game raid not giving a + 4 tome for a 20th is absurd.
    It does have a chance to give a BtC +4 tome in the 20th list- one of my close friends got a +4 wisdom tome on his monk.

  9. #9
    Community Member -Zephyr-'s Avatar
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    There's a lot of false information in your OP.
    That, and you shouldn't be surprised to be turned down on your no-DPS tank when there's nothing to tank. You chose to build for something, you have to stick to it. Seriously, the amount of "tank builds" that appeared on the servers after the defensive PrE revamp is not a good thing. Sure some are needed, but not that many ; DPS characters on the other hand are needed.
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  10. #10
    Community Member jortann's Avatar
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    I think the raid is fun.

    It certainly isnt one of those 'surround the boss and put on auto attack raids'.

    It's entertaining. It requires lots of communication. And the end part is down right crazy with mobs spawning all over the place.

    As for complaints....
    The hand is no big deal, just run from it.
    Ana is super durable. So guiding her is not that big of a deal.

    As for chests... 1 for completion. 2 for each optional. And one if Ana is over 75-80% health at the end. So even if you dont pay much attention to keeping Ana safe you get 5 chests.


    One more thing.... named loot drops on normal difficulty.
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  11. #11
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    The raid isnt bad. Its not my favorite by far but it isnt bad.

    The leader of the group that turned you down is still living in 2009 however.
    Last edited by Chai; 09-04-2012 at 10:05 AM.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  12. #12
    Hero JOTMON's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ferd View Post
    When a fully geared maxed out SD III S&B build w/ 93 ac, 1300 hp, 85 prr, 82 intim gets turned down for a raid because the leaders of this new "Coyle" style raid says sorry, we only need one intim.
    Thats a bad thing.
    Sorry if you cant kick in 20 mana pots, you can't come. is another issue.

    Oh sure most anyone can get in on a normal "training" run. But what's the point of that if no named items drop on that setting. (as proven by players)

    I say second worst, because of the lack of items that drop from Titan. Otherwise the new raid most certainly takes top honors as worst raid ever.

    Sorry Turbine, I didn't make it, but I sure can complain about what a complete fail it is from a players standpoint.

    And the player who posted the screen shots of a 20th & 40th completion end rewards confirmed the lack of tomes needs a gold star. The "new" end game raid not giving a + 4 tome for a 20th is absurd.

    Turbine, this was supposed to be your new shining star in the gaming world, what happened?
    it is still a pretty new raid, much like LOB when it first came out.

    Once the mechanics of the raid are ironed out it may become farmed more (probably never beyond Epic Normal) with less restrictive class requirements and become less pot intensive.

    Overall the loot is meh. There is nothing in there for my healers except the hope of tomes.
    Epic Elite runs provided no tomes and appeared to have a lower drop rate than Epic Normal Runs.

    Don't have a trend yet only have 2 Epic Elites done with chest blesser and +2 loot gem and +2 DDO loot event.
    1st run had 1 commedation and the bow drop.
    2nd run had only the caster staff drop.

    So on the face of it Epic Elite even with all the boosts had pitiful drops.
    End reward.... best choice was...Impressive Trohies for the win....

    Leave your S&B tanks and Nukers at home.
    From what I see DPS and CC caster with web/dance ball are the winners, Arti curse pot thrower FTW.
    Healers load up on scrolls and pots.
    Use Ana's shrines after every orb outside the portal as needed, screw the 1 optional.. chest not worth the resource drain.


    Still lots of bugs,
    Our caster had continuous spell balls spawning over his head, after disabling 50 of them we had to leave him behind til the fight was over.

    Missing portal keepers found one back near the beginning (did not show up on the map either).

    Lolths chain cursing and eye beams 3 plaftforms over while behind a rock.

    Spider web rope through rocks and across platforms appears to be no range limit on these.. much like earth elemental grab. Getting snared while trying to shrine 3 islands away from the spider made it quite frustrating.

    Mistresses sacraficing minions across islands is still occurring.


    Other annoyances..

    Lolths mana draining eyebeams should be removed from the game and reprimand whoever came up with that bad idea. Mana is sacred and there is enough going on that we should not be subjected to this without some sort of Mana regen option such as getting mana back by standing next to lolth as she is damaged and you are not cursed.
    Have the orb explode and give everyone full mana back, kill mobs for mana, something that can be broken or disabled to stop Lolths mana sucking ability.



    Don't know if anyone has got anything good on their 20th, perhaps in time if we see a teaser +5 tome reward it may get some attention.

    From what I see so far, there is no reason to continuously run this raid. No +4/+5 tomes for 10th/20th runs will likely mean this raid will die a quick death once the one off weapons are retrieved out of here. I would have expected to see static list of unbound +4 tomes and possibly rare +5 tomes after 20th runs.

    Rare drop BTC +4 tomes on the end reward list are subpar for this raid, we can get those from DQ,VON,TOD... these should at least be BTA or unbound, Would have liked to have seen a +4 Universal stat tome drop (lets you +4 tome a stat of your choice).
    Last edited by JOTMON; 09-04-2012 at 10:16 AM.
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  13. #13
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    The drop rate is low enough you are very likely to not even see the weapon you're after in 20 runs, not just drop to you, but to drop to ANYONE. I don't mind low drop rate in a good/fun raid, or high drop rate in a bad one, but low drop rate in a bad raid. Fail.

  14. #14
    Community Member Hendrik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ferd View Post
    *edit* This thread is not about my character or the party leaders, but rather where this raid ranks as far as raids go**


    When a fully geared maxed out SD III S&B build w/ 93 ac, 1300 hp, 85 prr, 82 intim gets turned down for a raid because the leaders of this new "Coyle" style raid says sorry, we only need one intim.
    Thats a bad thing.
    Sorry if you cant kick in 20 mana pots, you can't come. is another issue.


    Oh sure most anyone can get in on a normal "training" run. But what's the point of that if no named items drop on that setting. (as proven by players)

    I say second worst, because of the lack of items that drop from Titan. Otherwise the new raid most certainly takes top honors as worst raid ever.

    Sorry Turbine, I didn't make it, but I sure can complain about what a complete fail it is from a players standpoint.

    And the player who posted the screen shots of a 20th & 40th completion end rewards confirmed the lack of tomes needs a gold star. The "new" end game raid not giving a + 4 tome for a 20th is absurd.

    Turbine, this was supposed to be your new shining star in the gaming world, what happened?
    That's crappy, and very narrow minded leaders. Turbine can't code to fix them. You should be happy to not be running with them.

    Oh, and yes, +4s DO DROP on benchmark runs. Go back and re-read the thread you have referenced and give that gold star to someone else, like the guy that turned you down from Web and saved you a headache.

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  15. #15
    Community Member grgurius's Avatar
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    Few things about the raid:

    Lady Coyle is pretty durable and you need to try really hard to get her killed, most of the times i don't even notice she is there.

    Hand: Just leg it, it will go away pretty soon now.

    Drop rates: Dunno, to me drop rates don't seem any worse then lets say abbot or tod.

    SP drain: think that one serves some kind of purpose, think about it, lolth has a pretty high dr (50?) while no elemental resistance. Besides there is alot of phalic objects both of the times you fight her.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ferd View Post
    When a fully geared maxed out SD III S&B build w/ 93 ac, 1300 hp, 85 prr, 82 intim gets turned down for a raid because the leaders of this new "Coyle" style raid says sorry, we only need one intim.

    Oh sure most anyone can get in on a normal "training" run. But what's the point of that if no named items drop on that setting. (as proven by players)

    And the player who posted the screen shots of a 20th & 40th completion end rewards confirmed the lack of tomes needs a gold star. The "new" end game raid not giving a + 4 tome for a 20th is absurd.
    I've seen and heard better stats from other defender chars. Yours seem above average, but definitely not top notch.

    I did normal the other day, 5 named items and 1 com. Did a hard recently too, 1 named and 1 com.

    2 twentieth lists hardly counts as a useful statistic pool. Keep in mind, something like TOD, it's an extremely low chance to get +4s. Wouldn't doubt it's the same here.

    All in all, kneejerk post with preposterous, untrue nonsense. Focus on quality over quantity with your threads.
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  17. #17
    Community Member Dexxaan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ferd View Post
    *edit* This thread is not about my character or the party leaders, but rather where this raid ranks as far as raids go**


    When a fully geared maxed out SD III S&B build w/ 93 ac, 1300 hp, 85 prr, 82 intim gets turned down for a raid because the leaders of this new "Coyle" style raid says sorry, we only need one intim.
    Thats a bad thing.
    Sorry if you cant kick in 20 mana pots, you can't come. is another issue.

    Oh sure most anyone can get in on a normal "training" run. But what's the point of that if no named items drop on that setting. (as proven by players)

    I say second worst, because of the lack of items that drop from Titan. Otherwise the new raid most certainly takes top honors as worst raid ever.

    Sorry Turbine, I didn't make it, but I sure can complain about what a complete fail it is from a players standpoint.

    And the player who posted the screen shots of a 20th & 40th completion end rewards confirmed the lack of tomes needs a gold star. The "new" end game raid not giving a + 4 tome for a 20th is absurd.

    Turbine, this was supposed to be your new shining star in the gaming world, what happened?
    A few notes - Assuming (and it appears so) that the setting was E-Hard:

    1) The rejection:

    * 93AC - Not exactly Tank Material. - (My Favored Soul has 111AC and no CE)
    * 1300 HP - Nice, not insane, but would be appropriate if AC was beyond the 130 mark - My Intimi-Tank has a self-non boosted MAX 155 AC, Saves above 48 and 1200+ HP, Finally AC actually allows you to sacrifice HP here and there, and the 1700+ HP TOD Tanking fool is no longer a requirement.)

    Would I have rejected you as a "Main Tank" in an EH CitW? - If I didnt know you and I have other needs for Party composition, yes definitely. By the same token you could be a backup in case something goes wrong and a "Rez-Window" is required.


    2) Mana Pots:

    If you look at the Mana-Drain Mechanic its easy to not require Mana Pots unless you have Trigger Happy Healers-Nukers. (And its their problem at that point imo)

    3) Drop Rate:

    Agreed, I ran 3 back to back CitW Raids a few nights ago and 1 was a 100% Dud. Commendations are an extreme rarity and people accept & cheer when 1 or maybe 2 items drop.

    4) Worst Raid:

    I'm pretty sure the Abbot still has it beat for worst or 2nd worst by far. - The whole Space Invaders meets Donkey Kong Meets Frogger Puzzle Mechanics are just like the ultimate benchmark of what NOT to do in a DDO Raid. (My personal opinion of course..)


    For +4 Tomes I would agree with them dropping on Hard and Elite settings only. - The Tomes Carrrot has to be managed cautiously or soon we will be complaining that +7 Tomes are too scarce!


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  18. #18
    Community Member ferd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dexxaan View Post

    * 93AC - Not exactly Tank Material. -

    That's unbuffed, I knew people would comment on this!

    4) Worst Raid:

    I'm pretty sure the Abbot still has it beat for worst or 2nd worst by far. - The whole Space Invaders meets Donkey Kong Meets Frogger Puzzle Mechanics are just like the ultimate benchmark of what NOT to do in a DDO Raid. (My personal opinion of course..)
    .
    Man I forgot about Abbott! I stopped running that 2 years ago.

    As for the wonderful comments about my build, Before MotU X-Pak, my tank was at the top of the food chain!

    Now I'm just a guy not worried about anything. I play & have fun! I can stay alive a lot longer than most anyone else. S&B baby!!!

    *again, the thread is meant to get feedback on the raid, and in no way reflects how much I appreciate the X-Pak.*


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    I like the new raid. It feels a lot like Tempest Spine, with a lot of trash encounters and enough shrines to go crazy.

    The one truly bad thing about it is how the big bad boss behaves like a floating cartoon by the edge of the island. Boo! The Spinner of Shadows would make a much more interesting boss fight than that.
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  20. #20
    Community Member jortann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kmnh View Post
    The one truly bad thing about it is how the big bad boss behaves like a floating cartoon by the edge of the island. Boo! The Spinner of Shadows would make a much more interesting boss fight than that.
    Are we really fighting the Lloth? Or is she just letting us tickle her belly button with our swords. I think the whole raid is Lloth toying with us. I think she could destroy us at any point. This is just a game for her... and luckly for us she finds somehting unexpected at the end.
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