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  1. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by wax_on_wax_off View Post
    Thanks for this insight, hopefully Varz can adjust his figures (which might put the horc raid buffed DPS under 1000 DPS).
    Thanks for promising me more work.

    I actually was planning to put the details into the spreadsheet I didn't previous too look at OC vs THF.

    There was at least one other error - I had DM = 52 (STR) + 45 (effects) = 97. But I forgot the +10 from the eSOS. So DM should be +107.

    Based on the number I had the DM contribution was DM* 445.995. So that +10 is an extra 74.33 dps.

    I did all those initial calculations in a Notepad, so there are definitely some adding errors.

    In fact when I put W=7,Seeker=16,DM=97,Proc=21 into my spreadsheet is comes out as 1167.59 dps (vs 1028.55). With the same 58,20,20,20,30,7.5 swings rate per min.

    No promises, I'll probably make more errors. It's always tricky when comparing two different systems - you have two different sets of errors as well as trying to model the systems correctly.

    Quote Originally Posted by chrisdinus7 View Post
    Unless this is relying on a bug I am unaware of it (or I am otherwise out of date), then it is not possible. MS says that the cooldown reduction can't occur more than once every 3 seconds. That implies a max of 20 MS per min. Even that is an over estimate, due to the nature of the new distribution that rate limiting generates. For example, even after any given 3 second window expires you have all 3 off cooldown, there is a 12.5% that none of them will proc the reduction, forcing you to wait five seconds, costing you another 1.5 MS windows. So, even 17 MS per min is an over estimate, giving complicated and perfect play (spamming C, GC, SC only until MS procs the reduction, and everytime they are off cool down while MS is on cooldown but not in the 3-sec window). Most players will only be capable of hitting the 3 everytime they are off cooldown, giving 12 five second windows per min. Of those, we expect 1.5 to not proc the reduction, giving about 10.5 MS per min.

    So, again, barring a bug, the best would be about 16 MS and 4 LW, and more typical would be 10 MS and 2.5 LW.
    Thanks. +1 for checking.

    I actually modified my calculation above from another I did which I had forgot to include Supreme Cleave. I had thought about the cooldown for MS, but previously with 20 Cleaves and 20 GC giving 20 MS, it was enough for it to fit in 60sec.


    The cool down window and chance of not getting a MS reset proc is potential issue. I admit not considering that too much.

    Consider that it is going to be C, GC, SC, maybe MS, pause, C, GC, SC. It's instead going to be C, maybe MS, maybe LW, GC, maybe MS, maybe LW, SC, maybe MS, maybe LW, repeat. C/GC/SC are not going to be chain spammed together. In fact it likely you wont get 20 swings of each in 60sec window either.

    However, this type of analysis is more about 1000 swings, averaged down. Some what theoretically ideal max number.

    Using:

    {W=7,Seeker=16,DM=107,Proc=21} with {58,20,20,20,30,7.5} I get 1242.05 dps. <= keep only for reference.

    {W=7,Seeker=16,DM=107,Proc=21} with {69,20,20,20,10,2.5} I get 1068.10 dps.

    {W=7,Seeker=16,DM=107,Proc=21} with {71,18,18,18,10,2.5} I get 1035.43 dps.

    Finally I was thinking about twists. Sense Weakness and Tunnel Vision being the main twists for extra damage. Tunnel Vision is an easy 1d12 extra proc damage - although not sure it procs 100% on all cleaves like Vicious. Lets assume it does.

    Sense Weakness is a bit tricky. We could assuming a very static fight - say Sally in TOD - then it is 75% of the fight at 1d8, 50% at 1d8+1d12 and 25% at 1d8+1d12+1d20. So dps contribution is then probably around 75% * 4.5 + 50% * (4.5 + 6.5) + 25% * (4.5+6.5+10.5) = 14.25 per swing.

    If we plug this extra 20.75 into the proc above we get:

    {W=7,Seeker=16,DM=107,Proc=41.75} with {69,20,20,20,10,2.5} I get 1138.99 dps.

    {W=7,Seeker=16,DM=107,Proc=41.75} with {71,18,18,18,10,2.5} I get 1104.21 dps.

    Shame a combat log and dps dummy like in SWTOR doesn't exist. Then we could drop the theory-crafting and get some real numbers.


    Here is the spreadsheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...HcyUXpzWXJTTmc

    NOTE: There are likely to be errors. Please note any you see. For example just realised that "Proc * THF Glancing %" may be wrong, may just be "Proc" and not scaled by the THF %.

    My main interest in this was too figure out the high-water dps level, in order to determine what threat/dps a tank would require. With the US Intolerant blow change, this is unlikely to be a problem. Even at 200 tank dps.
    Last edited by emptysands; 09-08-2012 at 04:44 AM.
    Varz
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  2. #162
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    Another couple notes. I didn't include Deadly Weapons or any double strike effects. At a high dps level, something like "Hail of Blows" is maybe a good twist.

    In fact when I change the sheet to include Deadly and 3% double strike it gives:

    {W=7,Seeker=16,DM=107,Proc=41.75} with {69,20,20,20,10,2.5} I get 1197.10 dps.


    Note: Do we know if double strike procs on Cleaves/etc?
    Varz
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  3. #163
    Community Member wax_on_wax_off's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by emptysands View Post
    Another couple notes. I didn't include Deadly Weapons or any double strike effects. At a high dps level, something like "Hail of Blows" is maybe a good twist.

    In fact when I change the sheet to include Deadly and 3% double strike it gives:

    {W=7,Seeker=16,DM=107,Proc=41.75} with {69,20,20,20,10,2.5} I get 1197.10 dps.


    Note: Do we know if double strike procs on Cleaves/etc?
    Doublestrikes would proc cleaves so it would follow that cleaves wouldn't proc doublestrike to prevent the universe imploding.
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