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  1. #1
    Community Member ferd's Avatar
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    Default This won't be popular, but, Remove at least 2 forms of crafting.

    We have now 14 ways to craft stuff.
    Old items & weapons are now just relics with no value.
    Being able to make a min lvl 9 + 6 item is too much.

    We have SO MANY BUGS & DELAYS in animations, that there needs to be a halt put to the over-development of craft-able gear.

    If the amount of code used in making Cannith and a few other forms of crafting are removed, then maybe, just maybe some of the huge coding glitches (bugs) can get smoothed out.
    _______________________________________________

    In a few certain developers minds, giving us something to strive, grind & spend TP's on, in-place of quality hand crafted content, was, and is a bad move for the game's performance.

    Which is the point of the thread, game performance.
    As stated by a dev, "ALL of your characters info goes into one single arrow or bolt, thus causing a coding nightmare"

    Simple, common sense applies here people. (take a note from WotC & D&D) over producing, and adding all these strings of data can, and are breaking down the game.


    _______________________________________________

    Simple solution, give players 4 months to go crazy on say, Cannith crafting, then stop all future access. Remove it from the game, and find a way to trim code used to implement it.

    The less info you have to input for every arrow & bolt would go down, yes?


    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    "I like pie. Pie is delicious." "You know, cake is better", and a sudden nerf gun war breaks out because Pie is supreme. Then someone says, "What about dinner?"

  2. #2
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    While I hate what the crafting system has turned into, I don't agree.

    Sounds like we need to remove all arrows and bolts from the game, to me!

  3. #3
    Community Member Cyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ferd View Post
    The less info you have to input for every arrow & bolt would go down, yes?
    If the game actually functions like that quote stated the developers need to fix their horrible coding at the root of the problem and not address it by work arounds like this would be.

    There is no good reason why that sort of thing would be occuring, but lots of lazy bad coding reasons why it could be happening.
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  4. #4
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    personally I say remove all the silly collectables except special ones like dragon scales and relics etc. instead just create an alchemist shop that sales things like pure water etc. Why am I finding pure water in dusty danky dungeons anyways?

    remove all ammunition. Its been clear for a while now the only really viable ranged builds all use unlimited ammo be it arcane archer or artificer( seeing alot of old repeater rogue and even run and gun nun players grabbing one lvl in arty for easy xbow profs and unlimited ammo spell.

    remove trash loot. it should all be big piles of gold, and named items related to the named bosses we fight. The amount of loose magic laying around the world is ridiculous by any stretch of the imagination.

    Remove green steel entirely as its always been the source gear tier imbalance between average gamers and hard core raiders. instead put the art department on it making truly awesome armor and weapon skins you can earn to apply to any gear you favor. do taht with all raids in general actually.

    Make challenges give a single generic widget reward, expand their reward lists, and make it the go to for custom powerful gear.

    Either that or impliment proper PnP crafting for 3.5 D20. then Id make a crafting wizard,cleric,bard, and druid and be one happy camper making my stuff myself.

    but really just the lag and delay I get when opening an ingrediant or collectable bag really is telling of how much it lags down the game processing all that info.

  5. #5
    Community Member ferd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karavek View Post
    personally I say remove all the silly collectables except special ones like dragon scales and relics etc. instead just create an alchemist shop that sales things like pure water etc. Why am I finding pure water in dusty danky dungeons anyways?

    remove all ammunition. Its been clear for a while now the only really viable ranged builds all use unlimited ammo be it arcane archer or artificer( seeing alot of old repeater rogue and even run and gun nun players grabbing one lvl in arty for easy xbow profs and unlimited ammo spell.

    remove trash loot. it should all be big piles of gold, and named items related to the named bosses we fight. The amount of loose magic laying around the world is ridiculous by any stretch of the imagination.

    Remove green steel entirely as its always been the source gear tier imbalance between average gamers and hard core raiders. instead put the art department on it making truly awesome armor and weapon skins you can earn to apply to any gear you favor. do taht with all raids in general actually.

    Make challenges give a single generic widget reward, expand their reward lists, and make it the go to for custom powerful gear.

    Either that or impliment proper PnP crafting for 3.5 D20. then Id make a crafting wizard,cleric,bard, and druid and be one happy camper making my stuff myself.

    but really just the lag and delay I get when opening an ingrediant or collectable bag really is telling of how much it lags down the game processing all that info.
    Love it!


    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    "I like pie. Pie is delicious." "You know, cake is better", and a sudden nerf gun war breaks out because Pie is supreme. Then someone says, "What about dinner?"

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by ferd View Post
    If the amount of code used in making Cannith and a few other forms of crafting are removed, then maybe, just maybe some of the huge coding glitches (bugs) can get smoothed out.
    Maybe

    Possibly

    Could be

    Probably not

    Unlikely

    Doubt it


    You got any reason to believe that the dozen or so crafting systems are affecting people when they are not actively crafting?

  7. #7
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    I might be okay with your suggestion for removing some crafting types as long as Cannith crafting is not one to be removed. Cannith crafting is the only crafting system that has crafting levels and many people spent many, many hours leveling up their crafting levels to be proficient in it. None of the other crafting in DDO requires that kind of crafting skill in a character. The only thing the other crafting systems need is mats. So if you turn those off, no one will be stuck with having wasted hundreds of hours building a character for it.

    But your post seems to imply that you would like to see Cannith crafting be one of those eliminated. If that is really what you are suggesting, then I strongly object. I dedicated an entire character to it and leveled that character up to level 21 (to get the arti crafting bonuses) and leveled up their crafting skills up to 150/144/143. That was a ton of work! I would be very disappointed, to say the least, if I had to scrap that character that I have put so much work into.

  8. #8
    Community Member ferd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WielderofGigantus View Post
    Maybe
    You got any reason to believe that the dozen or so crafting systems are affecting people when they are not actively crafting?
    I'll let one of our resident techies answer that for you.


    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    "I like pie. Pie is delicious." "You know, cake is better", and a sudden nerf gun war breaks out because Pie is supreme. Then someone says, "What about dinner?"

  9. #9
    Community Member ferd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tshober View Post
    But your post seems to imply that you would like to see Cannith crafting be one of those eliminated. If that is really what you are suggesting, then I strongly object. I dedicated an entire character to it and leveled that character up to level 21 (to get the arti crafting bonuses) and leveled up their crafting skills up to 150/144/143. That was a ton of work! I would be very disappointed, to say the least, if I had to scrap that character that I have put so much work into.
    I was waiting and prepared for this;

    That is the trap & rub all in one with my suggestion.

    You have soaked hundreds of hours & money dedicated to that system. Which is fine, that's what they wanted. You get tricked out stuff & Turbine makes $. Good business sense.

    Bad gaming insight, as I see it. Now you're stuck!!!

    Yes Cannith is the crux of complicated crafting. And it's completely over-done.

    I'm not trying to single out any one form of crafting. I'm suggesting the entire system is over-done, and bogs down the system.

    It is most likely too late to change any of this, sad to say.
    And if changes are made, people like you, get shafted!

    The thread should inspire some interesting debate. And maybe get some feedback the devs.
    Of course holding my breath isn't a good idea at my age!


    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    "I like pie. Pie is delicious." "You know, cake is better", and a sudden nerf gun war breaks out because Pie is supreme. Then someone says, "What about dinner?"

  10. #10
    Community Member Rauven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ferd View Post
    [COLOR=DarkOrange]Which is the point of the thread, game performance.
    As stated by a dev, "ALL of your characters info goes into one single arrow or bolt, thus causing a coding nightmare"
    You have a link to that comment? I remember reading it but can't find it atm.
    Cannith: Lysaer (assassin); Arithon (assassin, too); DrShortLove on the Wand (he's short, he's a cleric, he has a wand and he's not afraid to use it); Mindok the Mind Menace (he's short, he's dead, fear his finger); Naruvek (pewpewpew artificer); Rathain (monk, that is all); Rauven (pewpewpew mechanic); Saruvek (mutt)

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Karavek View Post
    personally I say remove all the silly collectables except special ones like dragon scales and relics etc. instead just create an alchemist shop that sales things like pure water etc. Why am I finding pure water in dusty danky dungeons anyways?

    remove all ammunition. Its been clear for a while now the only really viable ranged builds all use unlimited ammo be it arcane archer or artificer( seeing alot of old repeater rogue and even run and gun nun players grabbing one lvl in arty for easy xbow profs and unlimited ammo spell.

    remove trash loot. it should all be big piles of gold, and named items related to the named bosses we fight. The amount of loose magic laying around the world is ridiculous by any stretch of the imagination.

    Remove green steel entirely as its always been the source gear tier imbalance between average gamers and hard core raiders. instead put the art department on it making truly awesome armor and weapon skins you can earn to apply to any gear you favor. do taht with all raids in general actually.

    Make challenges give a single generic widget reward, expand their reward lists, and make it the go to for custom powerful gear.

    Either that or impliment proper PnP crafting for 3.5 D20. then Id make a crafting wizard,cleric,bard, and druid and be one happy camper making my stuff myself.

    but really just the lag and delay I get when opening an ingrediant or collectable bag really is telling of how much it lags down the game processing all that info.
    If I'm reading this correctly, you want a vanilla game with no reason to increase knowledge of the game. Just log on and play a few minutes until you get bored and go to something else. "Johnny, what did you get for the end reward?" "You funny Mike, I got the same thing I always get same as you". "GW2?" "Sure!"

    ferd, I dunno if the changes you're proposing would make any difference, the lag existed before crafting was implemented, existed when I was running solo with Korthos gear.
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by madmaxhunter View Post
    If I'm reading this correctly, you want a vanilla game with no reason to increase knowledge of the game. Just log on and play a few minutes until you get bored and go to something else. "Johnny, what did you get for the end reward?" "You funny Mike, I got the same thing I always get same as you". "GW2?" "Sure!"

    ferd, I dunno if the changes you're proposing would make any difference, the lag existed before crafting was implemented, existed when I was running solo with Korthos gear.
    Id prefer a game with no farming goals if that is what your wondering.

    In PnP its not really even a point one can argue, magic times come from magic casters. Hence its always the casters with the ideal gear for their wants and needs. This is especially true of items that can shield you against or hurt those armed with magic. Wizards dont go around crafting swords and armor that is more dangerous to them then anyone else.

    Now if your friends with, and loyal to a wizard and he knows it, and trusts you fully, then maybe you can hope for some nice gear if you invest the gold and let him use a certain spell to siphon off some of your xp so he can use it for crafting.

    That is one of the foundations of D&D social class balance we lost in DDo and I for one miss it alot.

    and we have never really had an era of DDO not bogged down in useless collectables, adding bags for them was a step in the wrong direction, and piling on more and more is throwing the problem down the stairs after picking it up out of its wheelchair.

  13. #13
    Community Member kafrielveddicus's Avatar
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    I would like to add my two cents,

    I am highly disappointed that they made the stone of change ritual crafting with certain collectables increase the minimum level of a crafted item, they should just be added bonuses based off collecting the appropriate collectables, they are such small additions they should not increase an item by 2 levels.

    ie;
    +1 force damage per hit
    +1-4 force damage per critical hit
    +1 alchemical bonus to AC on Armor (especially now that AC means nothing)
    +1 alchemical bonus to AC on Shield (especially now that AC means nothing)
    +1 luck bonus on trinkets

    ***Are any of those worth a +2 minimum level increase***
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  14. #14

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    Unfortunately, there is little to compare DDO to PnP Karavek. In PnP, if you had a decent DM, he would hand-pick treasure rewards for the group. He may have used the loot tables, but he certainly would not have been bound to what he rolled... unless it was a drunken monty haul night (I used to love those).

    And PnP was imagination, I used to play with my eyes closed most of the time, creating the world the DM was describing, unlimited possibilities. That can never be duplicated in DDO.
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by ferd View Post
    I'll let one of our resident techies answer that for you.
    What? No links to our resident techies? You are leaving it to other people to prove your points?



    Quote Originally Posted by TheNarc View Post
    ***Are any of those worth a +2 minimum level increase***
    I guess that raises the value of a nice random gen item. Same with the Winter Fest crafting.

    Good to know that Cannith Crafting doesn't replace everything.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karavek View Post
    personally I say
    Mostly bad ideas? Yep.
    Quote Originally Posted by Karavek View Post
    In PnP its not really even a point one can argue
    I can. Unearthed Arcana, Crafting Points. Which is the system I would have based Cannith Crafting on.

  17. #17
    Community Member Silverwren's Avatar
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    Well Cannith crafting is the one system that should NOT be shut down or replaced. I spent WAY too much time getting my ONE toon to the point where she can craft something decent for guildies. I, for one, won't give that up without a big fight!

    I would consider giving up Greensteel crafting IF those of us who ground out 108 Shroud runs and 94 Devils Assault quests were allowed to trade in our GS items for an equal item, one to one, no crafting, no grinding. Give us a list of equal items to choose from and I'll give up my GS items.

    Otherwise all the chasing and grinding for materials was nothing but a big waste of time.
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karavek View Post
    personally I say remove all the silly collectables except special ones like dragon scales and relics etc. instead just create an alchemist shop that sales things like pure water etc. Why am I finding pure water in dusty danky dungeons anyways?.
    I disagree. These are an excellent way for low level characters to get some plat and some useful rewards.



    Quote Originally Posted by Karavek View Post
    remove all ammunition. Its been clear for a while now the only really viable ranged builds all use unlimited ammo be it arcane archer or artificer( seeing alot of old repeater rogue and even run and gun nun players grabbing one lvl in arty for easy xbow profs and unlimited ammo spell.
    I agree.



    Quote Originally Posted by Karavek View Post
    remove trash loot. it should all be big piles of gold, and named items related to the named bosses we fight. The amount of loose magic laying around the world is ridiculous by any stretch of the imagination.
    I disagree. This only makes sense of you also eliminate Cannith crafting which I strongly object to. See my reasons posted earlier in the thread.



    Quote Originally Posted by Karavek View Post
    Remove green steel entirely as its always been the source gear tier imbalance between average gamers and hard core raiders. instead put the art department on it making truly awesome armor and weapon skins you can earn to apply to any gear you favor. do taht with all raids in general actually.
    I agree.





    Quote Originally Posted by Karavek View Post
    Make challenges give a single generic widget reward, expand their reward lists, and make it the go to for custom powerful gear.
    I disagree. Not a fan of challenges at all. You said, elsewhere in this thread, "Id prefer a game with no farming goals". Challenges are literally nothing but farming. No pretense at a story or a rationale for doing it. Just jump in and farm tokens till you drop. Eliminate challenges would be a preferable suggestion.




    Quote Originally Posted by Karavek View Post
    Either that or impliment proper PnP crafting for 3.5 D20. then Id make a crafting wizard,cleric,bard, and druid and be one happy camper making my stuff myself.
    I agree.

  19. #19
    The Hatchery BruceTheHoon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ferd View Post
    The less info you have to input for every arrow & bolt would go down, yes?
    No.
    The dev said, that all of the character's info goes into it. Feats, BAB, +to hit bonuses, enhancement bonuses, character's spatial orientation, damage bonuses, buffs, target's buffs, etc.
    Yes, enhancements on an arrow does play a role here, but since we have absolutely no bugs that would differentiate normal arrows form crafted ones (or Deneith ones, or xoriat ones, or starter ones, or conjured ones, ...) I have more than a strong suspicion, that "arrow code" doesn't give a flying F about what's the arrow's life story.

    Therefore I find your suggestion ridiculous, since it's based on a soooo extremely far fetched assumption and a seriously questionable interpretation, that one might as well start a religion with it.

    In case this is just a veiled attempt to "break others' toys" born from an ulterior, more deplorable motive: ML9 +6 stat items can now be found as random loot. I have a few and a few more of ML11 ones from Gianthold.
    Last edited by BruceTheHoon; 08-29-2012 at 01:21 PM. Reason: Grammar bane

  20. #20
    Community Member herzkos's Avatar
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    interesting.

    I concur that there should be less crafting methods, though I don't think getting rid of cannith crafting is the
    answer unless it is the major culprit in the item swap lag.

    have been working on a crafter (38/36/35) through deconning items (mostly) so I've put in some time but
    nowhere near some folks.

    First to go away should be the ancient stone of change crafting. if you need to, fold it into the cannith
    crafting as the same recipe it is now.
    Next eliminate greensteel (like someone posted earlier). The weapons were OP when they were brought in
    and they are still OP for TRing.

    Consolidate all of the various chain crafting options into the cannith crafting system.
    Seriously, Red fens, Sentinels, Lordsmarch, that floating eyeball one with all the lords of whatever; how
    many different crafting options do we need. Just fold them into a WELL MADE/programmed crafting system.

    Ingredients: way too many ingredients. Cut it back down to something approaching sanity.
    You want to craft bane weapons , make it 3 tiers of reward for the monster manual. No soul gems, no special
    arrows. (This would probably take a long time due to the incompleteness of the MM).

    anyway, just thoughts off the top of my head.

    ps, feel free to hack down the complexity of cannith crafting to the point where the gear doesn't have any
    difference from random loot. ALSO, get rid of master crafting. OK, so here is your tailor made twink item: oh,
    lookie, just by farming x quest, I can make it lower level than a randomly generated version of the same thing.
    Bahhhh!


    p.p.s, bane item crafting from the MM, you heard it here first (i hope).
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