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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by dterror View Post
    Well, in general I do like your idea, except for the freezing of decay.

    If a guild goes public, freeze all renown gain but decay will continue, but only until you are at the minimum required renown for your current guild level. Public guilds would also lose the ability to add or remove members while they are public.

    In other words, you eventually lose all work on the current guild level, but no further, and cannot gain renown again until you go private.
    Interesting. I don't see how you could ban adding or deleting members. Players delete characters all the time. Members are characters last time I checked. Perhaps you mean ban adding or deleting accounts? But even then what about a player who deletes the last character he had in the guild? I don't see how such a ban could be enforced, at least not the deleting part.

    Also, such a ban, if it were applied to members rather than to accounts would prohit players from re-rolling characters. I think that would very much discourage any guild from doing the public thing.
    Last edited by Tshober; 08-31-2012 at 01:42 PM.

  2. #62

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tshober View Post
    Interesting. I don't see how you could ban adding or deleting members. Players delete characters all the time. Members are characters last time I checked. Perhaps you mean ban adding or deleting accounts? But even then what about a player who deletes the last character he had in the guild? I don't see how such a ban could be enforced, at least not the deleting part.

    Also, such a ban, if it were applied to members rather than to accounts would prohit players from re-rolling characters. I think that would very much discourage any guild from doing the public thing.
    I meant removing, not deleting.
    Last I checked, you don't get a recent departure or loss of earned renown if the character is still a member of the guild at the time the player deletes the toon...they just vanish. Not sure how exactly that works when it's the last toon that account has in a guild though.

    What I meant was no guild member could be added to the guild or removed from the guild by the leader or any officer while the guild is public..in other words, they would be unable to perform any 'house cleaning' while their renown decay is frozen at the minimum required for their current level. Members that wanted to leave on their own would still be able to.

  3. #63
    Community Member dng242's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mystafyi View Post
    this would indeed fix one of the problems with renown, but then folks would complain that they are punished for playing alot.... catch-22.

    the real fix would be to attach renown to the player/account and NOT the guild. public housing was wanted not these lame airships that screwed up guilds since implementation.
    Not really. The decay you get per unit time isn't going to change a huge amount one way or the other. Rarely does anyone play for renown, we play and renown is a bestowed, the more you play the more you get. Granted, how you play matters (e.g. farming high level quests in a short period), but you probably would do that with or without the renown.

    As to the rest of our point.... houses would be nice.

  4. #64
    Community Member 2x4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dng242 View Post
    Not really. The decay you get per unit time isn't going to change a huge amount one way or the other. Rarely does anyone play for renown, we play and renown is a bestowed, the more you play the more you get. Granted, how you play matters (e.g. farming high level quests in a short period), but you probably would do that with or without the renown.

    As to the rest of our point.... houses would be nice.
    You just gave me another idea (and the others who already mentioned it) the guild house!

    What if there were guild portals (similar to the portable hole) this is a secondary place you create for your guild, accessed at level 60 + or maybe even after guild level 80?

    And this can be implemented one of two ways. Either only accessible by guild members or it is the only space that could be opened to the public with limited ammenties and boosts the air ship ammenities by +1 if made public but airships never have public access?

    This opens up a lot of new strategies for guilds like levels of membership.

    So now at 4 ideas:
    1. Public Tab (As one person noted all guilds may be unwieldly maybe guild level 50 + option)
    2. Beacon ammenity

    3. House P favour (JOTMON)
    4. Guild portal (new guild space like portable hole, on the ground, maybe public maybe not)


  5. #65
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    Default No mre guild buffs

    Ok, I give up, I vote guild buffs and levels are scrapped altogether. The buffs and "guild levels" are the temptation and evil making guild leaders kick casual players as opposed to growing their casual player base.

    Just get rid of ship buffs altogether. Period. Done. No more buffs no more whining.



    Quote Originally Posted by eris2323 View Post
    Blah Blah Blah.

    Not one red cent, until Turbine makes the game better for casual players, and new players, and doesn't punish people for having friends that only play once a month.

    They also need to fix their bugs; apparently, that is coming.... soon?

    We'll see.

    But until then, not. one. cent.

    That is the only language the owners of the game understand.

    Total Number of Officers on Sarlona
    18,448 (43.68% of all guilded characters)

    Total Number of Members on Sarlona
    22,564 (53.42% of all guilded characters)

    With those numbers, they can't really afford to lose many paying customers, it seems. Regardless - not a single penny more from me, until this becomes a fun game again that (at least) mostly works.

    This game could have so many more people playing it - every wonder why they're NOT?

    It's because other games are more fun. Sorry about that. But with a pathetic amount of people on a server like that... something is wrong. Something is missing. Something is BROKEN.

    But, you guys keep harping about how guilds need to be for powergamers only.

    It'll be real fun for the 18 players left on each server to try to schedule raids, I'm sure. That will be the new end-game - 16 hours of planning to get 30 minutes of play.
    RTFM on Khyber

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Machination View Post
    Ok, I give up, I vote guild buffs and levels are scrapped altogether. The buffs and "guild levels" are the temptation and evil making guild leaders kick casual players as opposed to growing their casual player base.

    Just get rid of ship buffs altogether. Period. Done. No more buffs no more whining.
    While that is an option and would be better than the current system, that is not necessary to remove the anti-social component from the current renown system. You can accomplish the same thing, removing the anti-social incentives, by eliminating or drastically reducing the decay component of the renown formula. That way people do not have to give up the ship buffs they have grown accustomed to.

    You can even restructure the system to give all guilds goals to work toward again, including those guilds that are battling daily to stay in place at level 100 now. But this has to be done carefully to ensure that you don't bring it back to a system that, like the current one, rewards anti-social behaviors. The rewards that only certain guilds will ever attain need to be truely "bragging rights" only rewards, like cosmetics, or titles, or very minor conveniences. And most importantly, ALL guilds need to be able to progress toward those rewards constantly and ALL players need to be making a positive contribution. It sounds like that is a lot to ask of a guild leveling system but it's really not that hard to come up with ways to satisfy all those requirements.
    Last edited by Tshober; 09-01-2012 at 02:00 AM.

  7. #67
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    Default Views on guild decay

    1. Mathematically it is flawed
    2. Many of the players who pay for the game are working or are adults and have lives outside the game and therefore less likely to be online at all hours - yet they finance it - so why penalise them from being able to join the social side of a guild? (we're often the players who pay for astral diamonds as we have the money for them which actually pay for the guild ships! And yet we could not manage without the players who are maybe stuck at home more and have more time to play - all players are just as valuable to a guild imho and add to the flavour)
    3. Guilds are not all about buffs - there is a social aspect to them and it is a shame that players who are unable to be on 24 hours are treated as 'bad' by the guild decay system
    4. It is divisive towards players in the game and therefore a flawed system and needs rethinking by Turbine.
    5. Why not keep levels with platinum as well as guild renown? Maybe that would make it a more balanced system based on actual questing (even if not 24/7) that people could contribute to the upkeep of the ship. It would make more sense to me that the ships need to be kept in good repair so guild members pay for the upkeep to keep the ship moving forward at level. In D&D days if you had a keep or castle you had to pay for the maintenance so it would make more sense from a roleplaying perspective (which DDO is meant to have come from - remember?) that ships need not just the buffs paying for but the overall repairs (so hookpoints disappear instead of lvl and need fixing through paying platinum for).

    Anyway - just some thoughts because it isn't right at the moment for many and yes it may be ok for some but it's not helping.

  8. #68
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    /not signed

    Here's a better solution. Get rid of guild renown decay.

  9. #69
    Community Member Hendrik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Memnir View Post
    Personally, I'd dislike our guild's ariship becoming just a public buff-buffet instance.
    Agreed!

    Our Guild didn't 'work hard' together to get where we are to open the ship to every other person on the server. Not paying the cost of amenities for some random nobody to use, wait in line behind a non-guildmate to use, or drama associated with a pugtard going afk with a menu open to be cute.

    Quote Originally Posted by hsinclair
    I heard the devs hate all wizards, bards, clerics, fighters, and fuzzy bunnies and only want us to play halfling barbarian/paladin shuriken specialists!

    It's totally true, I have a reliable source. You better reroll now.
    Adventurer, Bug Reporter, Mournlander.

  10. #70
    Community Member Hendrik's Avatar
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    Once people realize that it is the Guildmembers that make the Guild and NOT the Guild Level, they will be much happier.

    Reading this, and many other threads with the same topic, it seems people seem to believe the opposite and nothing is farther from the truth.

    Quote Originally Posted by hsinclair
    I heard the devs hate all wizards, bards, clerics, fighters, and fuzzy bunnies and only want us to play halfling barbarian/paladin shuriken specialists!

    It's totally true, I have a reliable source. You better reroll now.
    Adventurer, Bug Reporter, Mournlander.

  11. #71
    Community Member Dysmetria's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lavendula View Post
    1. Mathematically it is flawed
    2. Many of the players who pay for the game are working or are adults and have lives outside the game and therefore less likely to be online at all hours - yet they finance it - so why penalise them from being able to join the social side of a guild? (we're often the players who pay for astral diamonds as we have the money for them which actually pay for the guild ships! And yet we could not manage without the players who are maybe stuck at home more and have more time to play - all players are just as valuable to a guild imho and add to the flavour)
    3. Guilds are not all about buffs - there is a social aspect to them and it is a shame that players who are unable to be on 24 hours are treated as 'bad' by the guild decay system
    4. It is divisive towards players in the game and therefore a flawed system and needs rethinking by Turbine.
    5. Why not keep levels with platinum as well as guild renown? Maybe that would make it a more balanced system based on actual questing (even if not 24/7) that people could contribute to the upkeep of the ship. It would make more sense to me that the ships need to be kept in good repair so guild members pay for the upkeep to keep the ship moving forward at level. In D&D days if you had a keep or castle you had to pay for the maintenance so it would make more sense from a roleplaying perspective (which DDO is meant to have come from - remember?) that ships need not just the buffs paying for but the overall repairs (so hookpoints disappear instead of lvl and need fixing through paying platinum for).

    Anyway - just some thoughts because it isn't right at the moment for many and yes it may be ok for some but it's not helping.
    1) How is it flawed "mathematically?" The rate of decay seems quite reasonable to me.
    2) You don't have to be on at "all hours." You don't have to be on for even 1 hour to keep up with the rate of decay.
    3) The only ones choosing to "penalise" you or to treat you as "bad" are your fellow players who don't understand decay any more than you apparently do, and not the guild renown system.
    4) Players will always be divisive for many reasons besides just their flawed understanding of the guild renown system.
    5) Why not keep and gain levels with TP? Instead of elixers boosting renown they should just sell renown flat out.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dysmetria View Post
    3) The only ones choosing to "penalise" you or to treat you as "bad" are your fellow players who don't understand decay any more than you apparently do, and not the guild renown system.
    4) Players will always be divisive for many reasons besides just their flawed understanding of the guild renown system.
    The renown decay system is flawed because it encourages and rewards anti-social behavior, with higher guild levels and better perks awarded to guilds that filter out casual and social players. It also penalizes guilds that are willing to take in casual/social players and help out new players, by dropping their guild levels. Yes, some players will always be divisive, but that does not mean it is okay for the guild renown system to encourage and reward such behavior. Far from it.
    Last edited by Tshober; 09-22-2012 at 04:57 PM.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by rayworks View Post
    /not signed

    Here's a better solution. Get rid of guild renown decay.


    This.

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