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  1. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by My2Cents View Post
    I agree that there is no excuse for fixing it. I'm just saying, how do you know they're not fixing it?

    And, give your very understandable frustration I only wish to say, I hope you would want to get your character restored to a place that would not cause you any further headaches. I know I would. Unless Turbine is a bunch of crooks, I'm very sure they'd want to make very sure that any restorations or compensations did not cause any MORE problems and the best way to do that is to be able to define / reliably repeat / reliably repair the problem.

    I really do feel for what you are going through and I in no way mean to minimize it.
    I'm not going through anything other than NOT TRing/LRing ANY of my toons until this is addressed. This issue has not affected me personally, I've just lost any confidence in the stability of LRing.

    I'm going to give Turbine the benefit of the doubt that they are investigating the code, but since this bug is affecting such a small % of people affected by it there's no reason a manual "nudge" can't be used to affect the few who lost XP. They CAN do so, they are CHOOSING not to do so.

    And that choice is exceptionally poor customer service considering some peoples toons have been borked for nearly two months.
    Last edited by Ape_Man; 09-13-2012 at 03:47 PM.
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  2. #222
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    I hope you get your destiny XP back soon.

    Quote Originally Posted by TNP_Mayhem View Post
    You know, maybe rather than toss out those witty fan-boy retorts, you should take a moment and think about what's being said. Perhaps, because this issue hasn't effected your character/s personally, you forget just how much is lost. When someone as a consumer has invested time and MONEY into a product, to get shafted in such a way as this, they have EVERY right to be displeased and request some form of recompense.

    Why? It's simple: you don't give money to something that does not provide service. If you were at a restaurant and your server took your order wrong, then brought it to you cold, or ignored you for your entire meal, I'm pretty certain you'd either speak with management or opt out on tipping, and the same philosophy stands true with any product. (Yes, I am FULLY aware that this is a game and not a bacon cheeseburger, but still, it's the principle.) If you are not satisfied, have been wronged, etc, etc, you speak with customer service. Some form of agreement is made, whether it's a refund, exchange, so on and so forth, SOMETHING is done.

    The problem here is that NOTHING is being done.

    "Oh, I'm sure they're working on it, it'll happen ASAP." is not acceptable anymore. Is it right to make someone wait nearly two months, and not even bother making the effort to at least keep contact with them? I'm sorry, but if you think that's acceptable, there's something wrong with you. I have years of experience in customer relations, yes, sometimes people are ridiculous, but in this case, the only thing that's wrong here is the absolute negligence and lack of response being provided to those who are experiencing this issue. You all know you'd be just as upset if this happened to you, maybe to some it's not as big a deal, but be honest here: this type of disservice is not doing anyone in this game any favors, and it will NOT encourage new players, nor hold an already dwindling player base.

    I fail to see how it's childish as a consumer to utilize programs and information that has been provided to us for our own benefit. Sharing experiences, good or ill feedback alike, is what helps companies see where they're strong, and where improvements may be needed, as well as helping other consumers NOT end up in a situation like this. Perhaps it should be considered a wake-up call. People are EXTREMELY dissatisfied, and nothing is being done. When you start researching things like complaints lodged with the BBB, etc, you notice more and more similar issues with unresponsiveness. Don't get me wrong, there's a LOT of things that are handled well, and a lot of great reviews. Overall, the game had been fun, but in the end, lack of proper support and the immediate call-to-arms by all those fanboys (and girls) out there whenever someone voices a viable complaint or different perspective, is a real game killer.

    I've recently seen some great friends and players alike quit due to these issues, and no, it's not the fact that the bug HAPPENED that's the problem,(I understand things can sometimes just happen) it's the fact that experience isn't being granted back that is. Yes, imo, they really should give it back, it was hard and fairly earned, and again, not the fault of the player who's spent the time, money and resources to try and enjoy this game. This is a hobby, this is something we do recreationally to have fun, and many of us have invested quite a bit into it. So, to those of you out there who make your little retorts and seem to lose sight of the fact that you too are playing the same game, I'll say this: you're the ones who are being childish, because you know it would bother you if this happened to you too.

    In the three years I've been playing this game, I've seen a lot of ups and downs. I hoped I'd never have to post a single message on this forum like this, because I know it's full of fanboys, and more than likely, there's nothing my words can do. I never complained when I lost my tomes, or my gear when my bank glitched, or even got angry during a multitude of other bugs. I'm not even really angry about this bug, I'm just sad nobody could be bothered to assist, and that one of the things I always looked forward to: getting to play my favorite game with a great friend, is no more. Ignoring an issue will NOT make it go away, attacking someone for speaking out about it will not help either. In the end, all it does is hurt everyone (players, GMs, Turbine, etc) more.

    I'll end this simply. Please, PLEASE grant the epic destiny xp back to everyone who lost it. I know I'm just one person, one paying customer, but I'm asking you politely. Please read all the other players in this thread, and everywhere else who just want to be able to play this game we all enjoy. And again, try to put yourself in the position of someone who DID lose all that experience, you wouldn't appreciate some wise-crack either, and you'd be upset too, so don't be a hypocrite.

    Thanks.

  3. #223
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    Hi,

    Glad to see that this is being kept alive.

    Tolero's post at < http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=392289 > is a step in the right direction, but I think they can do much better. I've asked her to post in this thread, so we will see what happens with that.

    By the way, I don't intend to let this thread die because an alternate one has been established. The people whose characters have been damaged by this deserve some answers, and the people who are holding off from LRing or TRing need some guarantees.

    Thanks.
    Last edited by blerkington; 09-13-2012 at 04:39 PM.
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  4. #224
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    i agree it is nice to see something in the notes about the problem but why couldnt cordovan just posted here
    would have made a lot of people happier

    however the not giving your ed xp back untill a solution is found ist a great help i have been here 3 years and turbine still havnt found a solution to the ladder bug

    i understand it may be possible to exploit this (ie you hade 1 ed tree filled and tell turbine you had all done) but as we know you can undelete chars so there is a copy of charectures held at all times

    also some of the people that this happened to had a full set of screen shots showing what ed they had

    you can bet they are not going to lr again so what is the problem with giving them back the xp?

    all we are asking for is an answere from the devs as to why if there is a sensible answer then no problem

    silence just seems turbine is hiding somethig
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  5. #225
    Scholar Of Adventure & Hero Missing_Minds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ew_vastano View Post
    silence just seems turbine is hiding somethig
    For a second time they have stated they are trying to figure it out.

    Anything further than that is not required but a nice gesture. Too many people are getting addicted to by the minute facesplat updates and texts. They aren't going to say anything again until they actually have a very promising fix that is being checked by QA.
    And even when they find it, chances are darn likely we'd have to wait for an Update and not a patch due to software cycles.

    Assuming they are hiding something right now only makes other wonders how paranoid you are.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Missing_Minds View Post
    Assuming they are hiding something right now only makes other wonders how paranoid you are.
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  7. #227
    Scholar Of Adventure & Hero Missing_Minds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SableShadow View Post
    *picture*
    Ya know, I always meant to see the movie that quote is from but never got around to it.

    But also, if I'm going to be paranoid about something with Turbine, it isn't going to be if they are going to fix LR/TR issues with EDs, but more of what are they doing with chat data. And I'd have that of every other MMO as well.

  8. #228
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    Higher frequency of game changes + broken respec system = potential disaster. How many current toons will become unplayable when the enhancement revamp gets implemented? If the LR system doesnt work as intended...well.....this situation is akin to an elder air elemental slowly gliding toward a sewage plant. When it reaches critical mass, youll know. It will be all over the place. Im surprised this doesnt have a higher priority.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  9. #229
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    I have relevant experience and I'm telling you:

    While I have no specific information as to what Turbine is doing or what this problem is:

    There are some situations in which there are Very Good Reasons not to provide any "fix" until the problem is at a minimum clearly understood. And, I can tell you there are types of technical problems that go far beyond what some designer typed into a template, and these types of errors can be very tricky to find as they aren't necessary related to "logic" but to environment under -very- specific conditions and require extensive thought and occasionally very sophisticated tools and top shelf expertise.

    And if this is indeed one of those types of problems, and I suspect it is, then the fix isn't as easy as "just replacing my lost XXX". To just go ahead and replace whatever is lost without knowing the specific nature of what happened could well be at a minimum a complete waste of time as the error might happen to you again, or it could in fact be very dangerous if the act of replacing it made the problem, or your character, worse. Also, knowing the specific "what happened" can change how to fix it the right best quickest way instead of just guessing,

    To quote the news media, that would be like "shooting without aiming." (I'm not a big fan of guns, btw.)

    There are conditions (and I admit they're not common, but they happen) where you can't know how far back the actual problem started so you wouldn't even know where to "restore" a character to.

    Example : You may have lost ED levels, the next person over may have lost quest log, someone else may have found all their cure potions turned into festival twigs. And it all could be do to something obscure you did or saw or encountered when you were 2nd level. Problems like that are rare, but they can and do happen.

  10. #230
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    Im surprised this doesnt have a higher priority.
    Its likely the cumulative effect of all the fanbois saying there is nothing broken in the game. If nothing is broken, nothing needs to be fixed.

  11. #231
    Community Member Grifarr's Avatar
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    My LR+5 went awry. I didnt lose my ED exp or my level XP (bar shows "Maximum Epic XP Achieved") but after clicking finish on my level 21 epic feat selection window it got stuck and further dialogs with the girl on the ship simply opened the previous panel. A relog stuck me at 23 with the only dialog option being to pick enhancements.

    After a relog I was able go to the fatespinner in the market and level up with her.
    Last edited by Grifarr; 09-14-2012 at 02:57 PM.
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  12. #232
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    Quote Originally Posted by Missing_Minds View Post
    For a second time they have stated they are trying to figure it out.

    Anything further than that is not required but a nice gesture. Too many people are getting addicted to by the minute facesplat updates and texts. They aren't going to say anything again until they actually have a very promising fix that is being checked by QA.
    And even when they find it, chances are darn likely we'd have to wait for an Update and not a patch due to software cycles.

    Assuming they are hiding something right now only makes other wonders how paranoid you are.
    Anything further is a nice gesture? Tell that to those players who have lost 17m exp due to this bug. A nice gesture would give them the exp back AND THEN put this bug on their TOP LIST PRIORITY list. Instead, all we get is a 3 line announcement that they are working on it. You don't say? We all knew that even before the announcement. They have seen this thread when it started, I'm sure of that. Why was there no words from them? If they fix it for Update 18, will those players have to suck it up and just exp again till Update 18? My answer is yes, this is what will happen if those players don't quit.

    Perhaps people is failing to see our reasons and I wanna state them again, for the 30th time: We know bugs happen, we know that sucks, we know that. We know it may take time to fix them, we know it may be soon or later. But we also know that they can fix the bugged players. We have seen them give exp back, we have seen them fix bugged quests in the log panel. Why aren't they doing that? Why all we get is "We don't know the problem so suck it up while we try to fix it" ?

  13. #233
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    Quote Originally Posted by My2Cents View Post
    Example : You may have lost ED levels, the next person over may have lost quest log, someone else may have found all their cure potions turned into festival twigs. And it all could be do to something obscure you did or saw or encountered when you were 2nd level. Problems like that are rare, but they can and do happen.
    Give to those person: Their ED levels, fix their quest log, give them back their cure potions. And try to fix the issue in the meanwhile.

    Or, better yet: Shut the LR/GR/TR down. No more people will suffer from this obscure bug while they try to fix it Too bad they wouldn't get money from the store then so most likely this won't happen.

  14. #234
    Scholar Of Adventure & Hero Missing_Minds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tid12 View Post
    Anything further is a nice gesture? Tell that to those players who have lost 17m exp due to this bug. A nice gesture would give them the exp back AND THEN put this bug on their TOP LIST PRIORITY list.
    Yes because blasting everything with a big gun and ignoring any forensic insight solves everything.

    Got news for you and those upset. Anything further IS a nice gesture.

    Got further news for you. You have ever right to be upset. Heaven knows I would be also.

    How do you know what is in their list of priority and what is not? I know I'm not privy to such information.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tid12 View Post
    Give to those person: Their ED levels, fix their quest log, give them back their cure potions. And try to fix the issue in the meanwhile.
    And if doing that screws the character further? What then? Reload with a now known issue character and "trust" a user not to do anything?
    Sorry, no deal. While it sucks, not doing those items is called playing it safe. They have to figure out how deep and how far spread this corruption is.
    Last edited by Missing_Minds; 09-14-2012 at 02:13 PM.

  15. #235
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    Quote Originally Posted by Missing_Minds View Post
    And if doing that screws the character further? What then? Reload with a now known issue character and "trust" a user not to do anything?
    Sorry, no deal. While it sucks, not doing those items is called playing it safe. They have to figure out how deep and how far spread this corruption is.
    How could that screw your character further? You are just giving them exp, making things faster and actually fixing it. That would happen even if they play normally. Are you suggesting that playing and gaining 17m exp AGAIN, ALL OVER AGAIN, will break your charachter forever? Do you suggest them to not play anymore?

    How is that giving 17m exp manually is different from wasting another 2 months to gain them back?

  16. #236
    Community Member Cyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Missing_Minds View Post
    And if doing that screws the character further? What then? Reload with a now known issue character and "trust" a user not to do anything?
    Sorry, no deal. While it sucks, not doing those items is called playing it safe. They have to figure out how deep and how far spread this corruption is.
    It is called copying all your character data before doing something if there is any concern.

    Changing the data on the toon after that does not risk anything as they either have logs from before or they do not, but they are not going to suddenly find new information about your toon that was not stored before or is not currently available.
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  17. #237
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyr View Post
    It is called copying all your character data before doing something if there is any concern.

    Changing the data on the toon after that does not risk anything as they either have logs from before or they do not, but they are not going to suddenly find new information about your toon that was not stored before or is not currently available.
    Agreed, a toon is just a collection of byes that can be stored someplace when you log off, most likely in a DB. There really isn't much of a mystery here. Save a copy, and you cannot break something further.

    This has absolutely nothing to do with "playing it safe". It has everything to do with "can't be bothered".

  18. #238
    Scholar Of Adventure & Hero Missing_Minds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tid12 View Post
    How could that screw your character further?
    Then tell me oh omnipotnent one that controls all of Turbine. Just how does their code work?

    You are running on assumptions that nothing is wrong and it was a temp glitch.

    I'm running on the assumption that there could be something worse underlining the obvious issue.

    Cyr, if it was that simple, how many years did it take for Turbine to implement a restore? Emmm? Thought so.

    Face it, when it comes to their systems, there is only thing we know, and that is we don't know. Give common sense solutions till you are blue in the face and ticked off if you want, but it doesn't change the fact that we have zero control of such and next to no influence.
    That is the truth of the matter, and it isn't touchy feely.

  19. #239
    Community Member Cyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Missing_Minds View Post
    Face it, when it comes to their systems, there is only thing we know, and that is we don't know.
    It is called some database values.

    You may have no idea what this is, but I assure you it is not some mystical concept that Turbine invented and is shrouded in mystery.
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  20. #240
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    Quote Originally Posted by Missing_Minds View Post
    ... Too many people are getting addicted to by the minute facesplat updates and texts. ...
    Hi,

    Missing, I usually enjoy reading your posts, but you've lost me here.

    This thread has been active for over three weeks, with the first (as far as I know) official acknowledgement of the problem on these forums coming around 36 hours ago. I don't think that the requests for information in this thread has anything to do with people being addicted to minute by minute updates.

    Aside from that, this thread is also about a serious problem. The number of people affected so far seems to be small, but it has affected them very severely. It also calls into question the stability of the LR/TR process, which is a core feature of this game and leads to people spending money on TP as they play. The business has a problem if people can't buy its product with confidence that it will work or that they will get help if the product doesn't work.

    Yes, the problem may be difficult to fix. But as others have said, making back-up copies of characters allows you recover if you break them while trying to restore ED xp and other data. It's a database, where good work practices allow you to recover, it's not a matter of making the database god angry and having him refuse to cooperate ever again.

    The way this problem is being handled, communication-wise, is very poor. There has been almost no effort to contact and reassure people who have been affected by this bug, or to explain the problem and what is being done to fix it to the rest of community. It's very disappointing, and seems far below what would be acceptable customer service in other industries.

    My suggestion is that you stop apologising for these poor practices. By all means, feel free to say whatever you want here, but let's not pretend that what is going on with this is all right. There may be reasons for it, like overwork, or a lack of understanding of how to fix a complicated technical problem, but that in no way excuses the manner in which this is being handled.

    Thanks.
    Last edited by blerkington; 09-14-2012 at 05:37 PM.
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