I am happy for your luck but I'm absolutely not going to run this raid if I have to wait to get struck by lightning three times to upgrade a weapon I probably don't even have yet (only two of my characters have gotten weapons they've been looking for--the rest get junk weapons like Tinah over and over and over again).
Seph is correct. Even the Turbulent Epee, a minimum level 14 rapier, does a better job of DPSing a wider variety of mobs. That's a slap in the face to all unarmed builds that want a weapon out of this raid, particularly because more than a few of the raid weapons here offer best-situational-DPS for their weapon type.
Ninja spies and I'm guessing the upcoming Henshins will also in almost all cases prefer to use T1air alchemical wraps or Grave Wrappings which, in my experience with Caught in the Web, are far, far easier to grind. By a long shot.
I don't think that adding metalline or one more damage mod (entropic would be nice, or even a non-damage mod like Greater Stability on Nature's Vengeance I'd accept) would shift the flavor or overpower the item at all--it would give unarmed builds a legitimate reason to run this raid.
Augmented commendation grind
No. Oh, and no. Also, no. Everyone is saying no. No. Don't do it.
The only acceptable alternative I can see is having a commendation drop EVERY raid and a certain amount be required for upgrading an item, i.e. ToD's Shavarath trophies. Ex: one chest has a guaranteed drop rate of 5%[normal], 1[hard], 1d2[elite] commendations per completion and 5 commendations are required to upgrade.
People like to see tangible benefit to their work (think successful raids like Shroud and ToD).
If you devs actually go through with this, without increasing the drop rate of the commendations by say, like 30-40x what they are now, I may very well quit this game and go find one that isn't using its time and resources to screw me over.
The fact that
1. you (devs) didnt know about this and
2. you think changing it to require commendations is a good idea
shows just how unbelievably out of touch you are with this game and what it is like to play it. I'm sorry, but the average korthos noob understands this game more than you **********s.
I cant speak much about any of your computer programming abilities, but if you honestly believe things like this, or some other decisions that have been made to address "balance" and such in the past few months then
You do not deserve to keep your jobs.
Get a clue, then think about what that clue might mean, then maybe think about how to "adjust" and "balance" this game.
cause right now you are doing about as well as a blind elephant trying to calibrate a triple beam balance
Mitt Romney understands life in the ghetto better than you understand your own game.
Stephen Hawking plays a better game of basketball than you play DDO (and at least he knows he cant play it).
fanbois- bite me
devs- delete my post and give me an infraction for stating what is obvious to anyone paying attention
honestly when i see **** like this it makes me really not give a ****.
Let's compare Antipode 1:1 with the much easier to find Grave Wrappings.
Enhancement bonus: Antipode wins with +1
Extra damage dice: it's a bit tricky but in my opinion (and feel free to do specific math for this), I'd rather have 2d6 damage that hits everything rather than the possibility of 1d6-4d6 (on very rare targets) on some targets.
Stunning: same value
Doublestrike 6%: testing required to see what it stacks with
Reinforced fists: +0.5[dice] for Antipode, can be garnered from off-weapon items
Improved destruction: Grave Wrappings allows you to hit a bit more consistently and bypass fortification, though this can also be acquired to an extent (regular destruction) from off-weapon items
Soul eating: 1d3 negative levels bestowed on enemies susceptible to level drain can amount to a fair amount of DPS, especially when factoring in variables like their increased susceptibility to instakill effects, Stuns, etc. +35 temporary HP is a wonderful boon to survivability when it procs
Taint of evil: Grave Wrappings lose out here by bestowing a negative level
Antipode: quite useful for being a grab-bag of alignment-DR-breaking but still likely outclassed greatly by greater banes in appropriate situations (again, math would be useful here). In the hands of a ShintaoIII you may not need to switch wraps often to break DR but I'd like to see some math skewing these over greater banes before considering them worth the absurd grind.
Disregarding the significant grind it takes to make Antipode a conflux weapon (something not yet suffered by other relic-wielders until U16 according to F_o_S), I'm not seeing a skewed cost/benefit to grinding these wraps.
Consider DPS average:
Balizarde > eElyd Edge, eRapier of Air
Mornh > eMournlode
Celestia > eGaros, eMournlode, eZephyr, etc.
Sireth > eSouleater, eStaff of Nat Gann, etc.
Pinion ~ Thornlord > all other epic bows
Needle > all other epic repeaters
Twilight > all other caster staves
Even one of the crappiest relics I've tested, Tinah, is still marginally better than other epic longswords I've crafted. So again, I ask, why exactly are monks being punished with a higher commendation requirement before U16 for a weapon that offers limited slot consolidation over a much, MUCH easier to acquire item that I'd argue is more useful for general use anyway?
Going back to your questions, do I believe the Epee = Antipode? Of course not, and anyone can see that's a ridiculous comparison.
If someone can provide some meaningful math as to why we should grind these wraps instead of snarky insinuations that I think a heroic rapier is equivalent to epic relic handwraps, I'd be delighted.
The only reason I want Antipode is to play around with the trinkets that go with it. It's hard to argue that the wraps themselves are really best at anything. They are decent at some things, but in general the role they fill is better filled by other wraps.
I really think the devs in charge of looting up that raid really thought we'd be quite keen on the set bonuses. The unfortunate part is even after all the grind to upgrade the wraps, the wrap/trinket combo still doesn't get you that much more than other wrap/trinket combos that require far less grind. I suppose that's my issue with it. For the grind involved, I was expecting much more. The wrap/trinket set really isn't all that bad, it's just not worth the effort the devs seem to think it is.
I'm at 9 runs on my main right now and 14 altogether without seeing a single commendation or loot drop in my name. If that's the expected trend, I have no idea how long it would take to get the 4 pieces necessary to get this sub par gear set.
Kaarloe - Degenerate Matter - Argonnessen
Breaking a lot of DR doesn't mean doing good DPS on many monsters.
Antipodes should have either:
- metalline, and/or
- lit strike / disintegrate effect, and/or
- add some untyped damage as well say 1d6
- some of the damage should be holy 2d6 not good 1d6 etc
I have Antipode. They really are that bad much of the time. The majority of dangerous mobs have an alignment. Irrespective, you can get the same secondary effects elsewhere with higher primary damage:
- reinforced: sun soul, caparison
- stun 10: dun robar
- doublestrike: does NOT stack with sun soul wind effect. Actually blocks both fom/doublestrike effect
- variable 2d6 to 4d6
So compare to other options:
- +1 base stat versus +6 item
- easy now to get 4d6, with up to 6d6 type, bonuses from random pull (eg. Mate pulled voltaic of phlebotomising)
- random drop seems better
- grave wrappings
The planar conflux bonuses aren't pivotal.
Why does this take 3 commendations to upgrade? You're still worse off than a random item
balizarde yes for most, unless you have a chr based toon, where elyd edge beats it, as it shoudl since its clearly themed for a bard.
Mornh, celestia, sireth- maybe but all of them are weak compared to sos, and if this is about dps that is the comparison should be making.
needle- yes for dps, although i would still prefer alchemical on my arty for utility. never gonna do good dps with a repeater anyway.
pinion beats every bow by a lot, especially thornlord, which is already second rate to unwavering ardency unless you need to beat 2 types of dr and there is no arty around
twilight? gimme a break. it garbage. especially in terms of dps, where random lootgen one handers beat everything, esp if paired with a t3 fire alchemical. if you are trying to max enchantment dcs then yeah its the best, otherwise not even close by any measure i can imagine.
the grind for these is large since normal drops seemingly less loot than any other raid by a large measure, and hard is very tough for pugs and elite is very tough for the best groups.
if you are then gonna need 3 heroics to upgrade them , with the heroic droprate as it is and nothing in 20th list, absolutely not worth the effort unless you are an archer, or a rapier/shortsword specialist. if you are qstaff specialist you obviously were never going for max dps anyway. luckily i guess a raid of all rangers, rogues, and ninja-spies can complete this relatively easily on norm if they can corral one cleric to come along.
Even after upgrading with Planar Conflux, I still think this needs soemthing extra:
- another 1d6 dmg untyped
- a lit/disint proc
- metal bypass
The difference for monks with some of the other combinations are:
- unable to do expanded crit range or multiplier
- doublestrike and reinforced overlaps with typical gear (i.e. blocked or doesn't stack)
To truly make these a Relic desired by any monk I would make two changes.
1) Remove Reinforced Fists and replace with Metaline.
2) Remove Stunning +10 and replace with Entropic
Now you have a +7, Antipodal, Doublestrike 6%, Metaline, Entropic
Antipodal + Metaline gives Dark Monks a good reason to seek them (I play a Light Monk but still try to think about my dark brothers) and Entropic is basically a universal bane minus the extra bonus to hit and gives them the needed DPS to make them a viable replacement for everything minus Grave Wrappings (for stunning) and Epic Wraps of Endless Light (for Undead).
With these changes the following would be less true for epic level monks:
I don't see this as overpowering monks (these are supposed to be relics after all), but if you feel I have overlooked something feel free to make a comment. If there was such a thing as Entropic Burst then I would even suggest removing the Doublestrike 6%.
First. Don't hate me. Got the wraps in my name in my 2nd ever run... epic normal pug.
My monk (3rd life, light, helf cleric dilli) is wearing then almost exclusively to try to figure out how/where to use them.
I'd like to listen to rules and maths experts.
Before this Lit2 strike of luck, I was going to craft some +5 Holy of XXX Bane (can't make the greater banes now... maybe able to do them if I spend some boring time in the crafting hall).
Anyway, 7 + 2d6 + 2d6 or... if I gather the patience maybe.... 9 + 2d6 + 3d6.
I am quite sure the antipode is good against True Neutrals (7 + 4d6 + 6% doublestrike) and I don't feel like changing wraps when I got only one "immune" message (7 + 3d6 + 6% doublestrike).
Is it correct to think that if each swing makes 100 damage, 6% double strike = 2d6?
50 damage each swing... 6% doublestrike = 1d6?
Can I safely ignore attack speed and other doublestrike fonts (grandmaster of air and grandmaster of flowers) for these comparisons?
I got legendary tactics and a +5 stacking DC dun'robar ring... so my stunning fist DC can be around 55 without the +10 stunning or around 60 with the antipode.
Do these 5 DC make any difference? I know that they don't in epic hard, but didn't do any epic elites yet.
Cogito ergo doleo
Last edited by jbleargh; 09-17-2012 at 12:53 PM.
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