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  1. #1
    Brand / Commerce Manager Tolero's Avatar
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    Default Monster Manual: General Feedback

    Use this thread for general impressions and other feedback related to the Monster Manual!

  2. #2
    Community Member Cyr's Avatar
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    • I hate beta quality product released on the live servers. The prologue was barely at the point of being beta quality. Spend the modest amount of time it takes to comb the data bases with a search function to put all the monsters under the correct entry instead of relying on players to find them for example.
    • The cost being bandied about (595 per Mad as a tenative price point) with TP back upon completion of deeds (500 per Mad per volume) is not really an ideal marketing strategy. It puts a too large intial price point on the feature which will discourage purchases. Taking the TP off and pricing them at 150-200 TP a volume would be much smarter as it would sell more product, by far, with probably not that much of a difference on average cost per person with rewards figured in.
    • Even having this as a purchase option seems a little backwards. This is a game play enhancer and a tie into pnp. This is exactly the sort of thing you want all players utilizing and enjoying as it serves as a selling point for adventure packs and reminds players of the pnp connection the game has...your IP is the biggest asset DDO has and this is a way to highlight that IP. The more access players have to it the more they feel like they are playing a d&d game instead of random MMO # 7...which they can get from plenty of other companies.
    • More data for monsters...HP is great, but I want to see mobs fort when I hit some key(detailed examine button like a verbose 'z' key display) if I have the top tier thing unlocked...and dr...and resists...and absorbtion %...All the stuff that players would want to see in some type mini-character sheet type setup...
    • More data for monsters when I look them up in the MM...stuff like places found (exact quest names and such) with CR next to them...dr specifics...all of course tied to deeds in MM.
    • Less fluff rewards and more account based useful rewards...something like Spider Slayer 1: You have an in depth knowledge of spider anatomy and gain +1 sneak attack damage versus spiders which stacks with all other sources of sneak attack damage.
    • More XP. The rewards on this are incredibly low now. The disconnect between Turbine and how the game plays on XP rewards in general is a constant source of loss of revenue (you do not sell as many adventure packs when people have such lopsided reward structures and they quit the game more often when they run less...that is just how incentives work...people tend to follow them and do not run the junk incentive quest that may be lots of fun or be just the right thing to break up the monotony...so you have to adjust incentives to encourage players to do exactly that). People will not farm these seriously for XP unless the XP is adjusted upwards at least two orders of magnitude higher so bump it by one (10 times more then now) and it should be a nice bonus for buying the MM and not a running joke among players when it pops up.
    • Cross MM mastery awards for multiple monster types sharing a theme that grant interesting account wide bonuses...such as Master of Poisons 1: You gain +2 on your saving throws versus poisons and 5 damage absorbtion versus poisons.
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  3. #3
    Community Member Shinjiteru's Avatar
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    I think cosmetic pets as rewards and such stuff is ok. Although more detailed information about creatures/mobs are always better.
    Everything which would have a benefit in combat would be too good. If every monster race would have some combat benefit it would be too powerful to get the rewards, so that the MM in general gets more valuable, so that more and more people think they have to buy it, so that the price of each volume is increasing since Turbine is following general market/business rules.

    We will start with 25 entries in the MM with U15 and probably get another 10 each update or second update. If each would give a bonus for combat the MM would start to be a bigger increase to your characters combat performance than the equipment.

    I don't know how many entries the MM is going to have in the end so I can't really say if the xp reward is too low or good, since it should be a value which is still not too high when we have all volumes of the MM. But yeah, at the moment they seem to be a bit low, especially the more difficult ones could be increased in xp reward since they require several packs and quests.

    The xp reward for finding several different humans, or spiders (including named mobs) should yield more xp than just slaying a massive amount of this race. Finding all named or 'subraces' is much harder than just slaying many of them.

  4. #4
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    I rather like the concept and thought it was nice of Turbine to give us a sneak peak of an obviously unfinished product. Fluff and artwork are good things.

    The link back to PnP is an excellent move, as I think that the game has recently moved somewhat away from the original concept of "Dungeons & Dragons Online". Nice to see that step back in the right direction.

    I can see why the rewards might seem low to some but I can undrestand this because I've heard there are players out there who will exploit anything, and it's only reasonable for Turbine to avoid doing anything that might be game breaking in the wrong hands. The rewards are extras, so I don't feel they need to be huge in XP terms.

    The non-Xp rewards are interesting and I expect that they will be expanded as more ideas are thought of.

    The downside from my point of view is that I like the idea so much I'm likely to spend money on it.

    The upside from Turbine's point of view is the same as the downside from mine.
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  5. #5
    Community Member Crazyfruit's Avatar
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    I think it still needs a lil more polish.

    • A few of the lore bits had "?" in place of another text character.
    • Quite a few monsters had the model picture zoomed into their chests, or some other location that made for a horrible picture. (For example: Purple Dragon Knights, Bladesworn Warforged)
    • Some of the character deeds are unlocked by more kills/monsters hunted than the top tiers of account wide, which seemed weird.
    • The previous "You have slain a new monster type" indicator message I liked seems to be completely MIA.
    • And account/slayer deeds have both the same name & icon, making it hard to tell which we've just gotten.


    I really like that it tracks how often we've died to the monster type now. D'oh

    I would've liked it more if the second page (kill tracker) was split into two different ones, one for character & one for account. The list seems far too squished and removes part of the mystery/hunting aspect from people who might enjoy it running alts.

    Design wise, I'm curious why it takes so many kills to unlock the DR/Alignment/etc information? The folks who need that the most are the ones who haven't hunted plenty of them.
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  6. #6
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    Default well

    what about 1xp for 1 kill of monsters in the manual ?
    that 1xp isnt really too much... and would make the monster manual more appealing...

  7. #7

    Default I loved it

    Absolutely one of my favorite new things in the game, and something that makes me appreciate Turbine.

    1) It adds a great new detail for those of us who are goal-oriented (those of us who like doing the slayer areas just to check things off a box)

    2) I like the idea that you share aspects of it across your account. It would be fun especially if I were a new player with a few toons going at the same time instead of 3 capped ones and one perma-TR... Would have loved it even more 4 years ago.

    3)Any chance we can get a few achievements up on Steam?

    4) Cyr's idea about giving us a stacking bonus to skill or poison resist is spot on. I would love to see more flavor-type rewards in game for actual achievements (like how finishin certain quest chains boosts your merchant sell prices in each house...wait, does that still happen?). I think adding bonuses for MM completions as well as slayer area completions would give a great boost to enhancing people's willingness to play those areas and their enjoyment thereof.

    5) Any chance we could get another row of doo-dad icons over our heads to incidate certain achievements we've attained like we get wings for TR's? It would be fun to see a different icon over a person's head for defeating certain raid bosses or getting 3000 favor or finishing certain quest lines (maybe if you finish TS, RF, and SOS all in the same life). I know that this sort of cosmetic thing isn't high on people's radars, but for a lot of us, the achievements are like merit badges and give us something to feel proud of. Uh, point is that maybe killing things int he MM could get us one of those doo-dads.


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  8. #8
    Community Member barberous's Avatar
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    Talking monster manual

    i like it, another thing i have to learn. not all gamers are young i am still learning this great game and the more you add the better.

  9. #9
    Community Member LightBear's Avatar
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    There are a whole lot of things you can do based on the monster manual.
    The one thing I don't like is this:
    Say your missing a few last monsters-types (or is t sub-types?) to make it complete. As it turns out those few lasts are named rare spawns and for some reason they just don't show up for you. Would it be nice if you would get a higher chance for those last named rare monster to spawn?
    I don't know if it can be done, just saying it would be nice.

  10. #10
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    Here are some of my thoughts about the MMs.

    First, I will repeat as I've posted elsewhere, I think that adding a 1 XP per kill of monster in the Manuals would be a great addition. Unlike the tiered killing XP, it will never end after capping everything out. So as long as there are levels and epic destinies needed in the game, there will be a small but unlimited source of XP for players (and wasn't this the selling point from the Devs about Challenges?). As I said elsewhere, I doubt there are any quests with more than 600 mobs to kill, so that would only be 600 XP, which isn't gamebreaking or tilts the balance of the game to players who own MMs. If some player wants to farm Kobold Assault for example for the extra 201 XP, people shouldn't really care since there are faster and better ways to farm XP. Additionally, this XP will always be gained whether the player is overlevel or fails the quest, so that the 1 XP per kill will be some source of progress even if very minor.

    Second, Guild Renown needs to be added. The Devs are addressing this, so there's no reason to go further with this point.

    Third, I've noticed that some people are asking for a bonus against the monsters. I have to disagree. I don't think that giving players a +1 damage, +1 rolls or +1 defense against mobs from the MM is a good idea. It would start making the MM more mandatory for players to get, when the MMs should be completely optional.

    Fourth, although I don't like the bonus against monsters, I think there should be a Monster Manual Vendor. What does this vendor do? How about sell Bane Arrows and Bolts, Slaying Arrows and Bolts? Maybe even include Anti-Mummy Elixirs and Beholder Crystals. All of this would be only be available at certain tiers. And to prevent it from being abused, these items can only be bought in certain quantities. The sells could also be timered maybe, a player can only buy a Beholder Crystal once a week maybe. Also things like the Beholder Crystal from a vendor would be exclusive also to prevent abuse. Just a thought.
    Last edited by oradafu; 08-12-2012 at 11:22 PM.

  11. #11
    Community Member Zeklijan's Avatar
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    My first impression was seeing my chat being spammed with messages that I killed my first spider.

    My second impression was when looking at the manual, I looked at the rewards, and then stopped looking (I was currently zerg'ing, the exp sounded horrible and pets aren't useful)

    And then it became unavailable, I would like to know more and see it being useful. But I won't bother looking at it (even less purchasing lol) until I hear it's more than beta, works properly and is useful. I'm a power gamer and won't bother with unfinished/unuseful things most the time

    'Cause that's my playstyle
    Last edited by Zeklijan; 08-12-2012 at 03:09 PM.

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  12. #12
    The Hatchery SHOCK_and_AWE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nayozz View Post
    what about 1xp for 1 kill of monsters in the manual ?
    that 1xp isnt really too much... and would make the monster manual more appealing...
    This this this this this this this this

    One thing that stuck in my mind when I first started playing this game was, "We don't get ANY experience from killing monsters? What the heck! That SUCKS!"
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  13. #13
    Community Member stretchcore's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bando View Post
    Absolutely one of my favorite new things in the game, and something that makes me appreciate Turbine.

    1) It adds a great new detail for those of us who are goal-oriented (those of us who like doing the slayer areas just to check things off a box)

    2) I like the idea that you share aspects of it across your account. It would be fun especially if I were a new player with a few toons going at the same time instead of 3 capped ones and one perma-TR... Would have loved it even more 4 years ago.

    3)Any chance we can get a few achievements up on Steam?

    4) Cyr's idea about giving us a stacking bonus to skill or poison resist is spot on. I would love to see more flavor-type rewards in game for actual achievements (like how finishin certain quest chains boosts your merchant sell prices in each house...wait, does that still happen?). I think adding bonuses for MM completions as well as slayer area completions would give a great boost to enhancing people's willingness to play those areas and their enjoyment thereof.

    5) Any chance we could get another row of doo-dad icons over our heads to incidate certain achievements we've attained like we get wings for TR's? It would be fun to see a different icon over a person's head for defeating certain raid bosses or getting 3000 favor or finishing certain quest lines (maybe if you finish TS, RF, and SOS all in the same life). I know that this sort of cosmetic thing isn't high on people's radars, but for a lot of us, the achievements are like merit badges and give us something to feel proud of. Uh, point is that maybe killing things int he MM could get us one of those doo-dads.
    4 sounds like a nice buff. Stacking resists or dodge chances might infuriate the DnD purists though.
    3 and 5 sound like they'd appeal to some people, but not me. I'd prefer the option to turn off any 'titles', primarily because it reminds me of LOTR, and the only thing I want to see from LOTR in DDO is the UI customisation.

  14. #14
    The Hatchery Urist's Avatar
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    Read my lips: No new buffs.
    Fewer stacking buffs is what the game needs, not more of them.

    I'd say no to 1XP per kill too. DDO has always given XP for notable achievements, and getting XP for each kill just doesn't feel like DDO to me. (It feels like some other MMOs, but that's another discussion)
    Rewarding individual kills leads to (at least psychologically) favouring DPS over sneaksie. I like being sneaksie, and like that DDO directly rewards it (discreet, devious, etc.).

    What I would like to see is more cosmetic rewards - not just pets, but reusable armour; helm; shield; or weapon cosmetic kits - such as how the Spider Cult Mask currently functions.

  15. #15
    Community Member Lordress's Avatar
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    i don't care about the xp..i don't care about the rewards.

    but i'd love ...LOVE..if the manual actually gave more INFO on the creatures. I do not have everything about every monster memorized. (yes i know some players are more dedicated that i am and DO) I'd like to know more than just their HP. I want to know weaknesses, resists, alignments, what kind of DR they have etc.

    When i first heard about the manual, that is what i was expecting. From the little i've seen i was a bit let down. I personally think HP should be given from go..then other stuff, like the DR etc, could be earned.

    Also, i want every monster in the whole game in there!! (well..i do.)

    Anyway..i think it's a good idea and am looking forward to the finished version.
    Owner of ..Chopstix, Colleena Bloodcup, and various other "level 7's"

  16. #16
    Community Member OverlordOfRats's Avatar
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    I took a quick look at them today to see what they offered, didn't max any or even unlock the first reward.

    #1 - I would not like to see new combat buffs. Please do not add combat buffs as rewards for the Monster Manual.

    #2 - I would like to see information about the monsters as an account unlock. What they are resistant to, immune to, weak to, healed by, DR, CR range, alignment, type (undead, animal, monstrous humanoid, giant), etc. Think D&D's Monster Manuals here. I don't know if these are all there as I just took a quick look.

    #3 - For the character achievements XP bonus, TP, consumable store items(preferably related in some way to the monster: mummy elixir, beholder crystal, resist fire potion), 1 XP per monster killed or anything else along those lines looks good to me. Nothing game changing though.

    #4 - For the final achievements I think that being able to see the monster actual HPs is a nice addition. The pets are also nice. Pet wraiths for your pale masters anyone?

    #5 - Price on live. Please make them reasonable if possible. I know marketing will set the price based on their super secret magic ball. Since it looks like there will be four monsters per volume, there will be many volumes. Many volumes that sell at a lower price is better than many volumes that do not sell at a higher price.

    To sum up. I am more interested in the Monster Manuals providing us in game information than bonuses and not interested in them providing combat buffs.

    Thank you for reading

  17. #17
    Community Member Fontora's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyr View Post
    • More data for monsters...HP is great, but I want to see mobs fort when I hit some key(detailed examine button like a verbose 'z' key display) if I have the top tier thing unlocked...and dr...and resists...and absorbtion %...All the stuff that players would want to see in some type mini-character sheet type setup...
    • More data for monsters when I look them up in the MM...stuff like places found (exact quest names and such) with CR next to them...dr specifics...all of course tied to deeds in MM.
    Second.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by SHOCK_and_AWE View Post
    This this this this this this this this

    One thing that stuck in my mind when I first started playing this game was, "We don't get ANY experience from killing monsters? What the heck! That SUCKS!"
    I concur. I don't think it totally sucks now. I also don't think it should be '1 xp', but rather some number *CR, perhaps a number that starts at 1 and goes up by 1 for every 'tier' the player has unlocked. Still far less than you get 'per kill' in pnp, but not so much as to be redundant with slayer xp.

    I have friends that have left the game giving the excuse "It takes too long to level." (oddly enough, my response is "I don't really know any game in which you can level without actually playing the game..." but maybe I was wrong).


    Quote Originally Posted by MajMalphunktion View Post
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  19. #19
    Community Member stretchcore's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrkGrismer View Post
    I concur. I don't think it totally sucks now. I also don't think it should be '1 xp', but rather some number *CR, perhaps a number that starts at 1 and goes up by 1 for every 'tier' the player has unlocked. Still far less than you get 'per kill' in pnp, but not so much as to be redundant with slayer xp.

    I have friends that have left the game giving the excuse "It takes too long to level." (oddly enough, my response is "I don't really know any game in which you can level without actually playing the game..." but maybe I was wrong).
    The thing is that with that (xp per kill) system, it's easily exploitable by just killing the first couple mobs in an elite run of a quest, then resetting the instance over and over until you get the level. Also without that system, you avoid the potential for extra XP for landing the killing blow. In my experience that just causes "killstealing" arguments in other MMOs.
    Having to complete the quest and then advance the storyline makes more sense and is more fun in my eyes than just farming out 9827592 instances of the first room of a quest.

    Oh, and as far as games you don't have to play to level up, I think EVE Online does that

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by stretchcore View Post
    The thing is that with that (xp per kill) system, it's easily exploitable by just killing the first couple mobs in an elite run of a quest, then resetting the instance over and over until you get the level. Also without that system, you avoid the potential for extra XP for landing the killing blow. In my experience that just causes "killstealing" arguments in other MMOs.
    Having to complete the quest and then advance the storyline makes more sense and is more fun in my eyes than just farming out 9827592 instances of the first room of a quest.

    Oh, and as far as games you don't have to play to level up, I think EVE Online does that
    Unless something changed completely with the MM, all kills in party are counted to all players in the party so there will be no killstealing.

    Additionally, I've said this every time I've posted about 1 XP per kill: so what is someone wants to farm quests just for kills? There are faster ways to farm XP then waiting for mobs to spawn and killing them in groups of let's say 10. And I doubt there are any quests that have more than 600 mobs to kill to complete. But if someone wants to spend an hour waiting for bats to spawn to kill in Coal so they get an extra 150 xp, so be it. If that's their way to have fun or want to level up, why should it matter?

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