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  1. #1
    Community Member Zerkul's Avatar
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    Exclamation The DDD - Dire Defender Dreadnought

    First of all this is not a complete build, but just a build concept with a feats breakdown example. The intent of this thread is to give people some stuff to think about when rolling a "Tank" build.

    The legendary problem of all tank builds (especially shield ones) has always been the aggro management. Usually tank builds do not shine in DPS and if they do they are generally TWF users or THF ESoS with the possibility of equipping a shield for more survivability. Forget the past, the DDD is that badass with shield that he doesn't need anymore to equip a twohanded weapon and if he does the gain in DPS will be so marginal that you will want to run always with your shield equipped. Yes you're reading right the DDD can DPS with the shield equipped and you will not have to worry about people mocking you: you will do real and high DPS.
    Feats Guide Lines
    Ok let's illustrate the build. Basically the aim is to build a Stalwart Defender Fighter 20 pure that can DPS with Axe and Shield exploiting the LD benefits. So first of all you need the right feats. Here i give you a feat list for a human DDD but it can be also dwarf (even if i do not reccomend it because of the healing amplification):

    • Shield Mastery
    • Improved Shield Mastery
    • Improved Shield Bash
    • Power Attack
    • Combat Expertise
    • Dodge
    • Mobility
    • Cleave
    • Great Cleave
    • Exotic Weapon Proficiency (D-Axe)
    • Improved Critical (Slashing)
    • Weapon Focus (Slashing)
    • Greater Weapon Focus (Slashing) [as Ap0k told us, this feat is not prerequisite for Greater Weapon Specialization in DDO so it can be dropped for something else: i dropped this feat to get Bulwark of Defense later on epic levels, it matches perfectly with the new Gear List posted below.]
    • Weapon Specialization (Slashing)
    • Greater Weapon Specialization (Slashing)
    • Two Handed Fighting
    • Improved Two Handed Fighting
    • Greater Two Handed Fighting
    • Toughness
    • Stunning Blow
    • E: Overwhelming Critical

    That's a total of 8+11+2 feats this means the last two are epic ones and one normal feat is taken in epic feat slot.
    Epic Destiny Guide Lines
    To achieve a good Axe and Board DPS you need to get as much as possible doublestrike. Shield Mastery and Improved Shield Mastery already give you 8%, Fighter Capstone gives you 10% and Legendary Shield Mastery from the Sentinel Destiny gives you 7%. So for what concern the ED you will have to:

    • Get enough fate points to slot Legendary Shield Mastery from the Sentinel Destiny and possibly Sense Weakness from Fury of the Wild (to exploit the stunning blow);
    • Run a Legendary Dreadnought with:
      • extra Action Boosts rank III,
      • Momentum Swing rank III,
      • Laywaste,
      • Tactics at least rank II for stun and trip (to further boost tactics be sure to get an alchemical tower shield with stunning +10 and a Duergar warxe with trip +10 ... pair them with an Epic Spare Hand and you will have fearsome melee tactics as well),
      • Anvil of thunder (that's an occasional stun on critical that is very handy against orange nameds that usually have higher fortitude saves, it can prolong the stun time of the target and provides a decent +100 sonic damage),
      • Head's Man Chop and Devastating Critical.


    So ideally your twists of fate will be: Sense Weakness, Legendary Shield Mastery and something else you might want ... i did slot Shield Prowess for extra AC but you can slot what you like. Technically you can raise yourself to 31% double strike chance with a 6% double strike item and at this point your DPS is already getting good to be a mere shield fighter.
    Equipment Guide Lines
    To finish this DDD potrait we need to fit in the right equipment. The idea is to balance the AC stuff alongside with the DPS one and high strength. In order of priority we need Strength, DPS, AC ... AC is important now but the SD is already that though with Legendary Shield Mastery that even if you don't have starhigh AC it will still be viable tank for everything ingame. Strength is a must for the melee tactics: the more the better. Very important also is to slot in your equipment a greensteel with "Smoke" or some item with blur and an item with incorporeal (Epic Ring of Stalker, Epic Cloak of Night, Wretched Twilight): when AC goes high every extra point will give you less damage mitigation, at this point incorporeal and blur/displacement will be your real boost in melee survivability. This is what i'm currently using on my DDD build: Gear List. Just for reference this is my Previous Gear List.
    How to Play it: Know your role
    You're the frontline fighter in the Epic Elite Content. You're a fearsome melee fighter with that high DPS Axe and Board (use preferably a triple acid alchemical D-Axe or a Duergar Waraxe with an alchemical tower shield) that you have nothing to envy to a Kensai with Eaga or ESoS: while a Kensai will sure have better tactical DCs and more DPS, but not that much more you think, you're the only one that can bump into Epic Elite mobs masses with displacement and makes them tremble. The more mobs the more DPS, Laywaste, Momentum Swing and Cleaves will be your best friends.
    When rushing ahead, the fundamental Idea is to stun/trip core targets then start to DPS in a similar way to an Autocleave Barbarian: 1,2,MomentumSwing,1,2,Cleave,1,2,Greatcleave and so on ... be sure to chain in your melee attacks Laywaste each time you can and Momentum swing as well. By the time you learn how to rotate your attacks you will sure notice that your DPS is very high. Now try switch in your eaga and check if you notice sensible differences: i bet no.


    While in epics elite quests you will prefer LD, for very hard tanking bosses you might prefer Sentinel. With Sentinel Destiny this build can get up to resonable 1300+ HPs with PRR almost near to 50% damage mitigation. If you go Sentinel be sure to slot in Laywaste and Momentum Swing and you might need Draconic Presence as well to raise (+6) your intimidate modifier.
    Last Side Notes
    I already managed to build my own DDD. I periodically run Epic Elites in Faerun with it and i love it. Without the prolonged effort of the community to make AC matter and boost Melees and Tanks capabilities this build couldn't exist. Thanks all. For what it matters my DDD runs at the moment with 118 AC with PA, 114 PRR, 5% dodge, 57 Stun, 57 Trip, 56 Strength and decent 1130 HPs. Under Sentinel destiny i managed to raise myself above 1500 HPs with Arty Buff which is pretty nice and almost 50% damage mitigation. With sentinel AC is even higher and i did see something like 174 AC in CE with +20 AC Boost. DDD is a real badass fighter. Love it!
    DDD Media
    Epic Elite - Trial By Fire (U17.1) - Solo.


    Fight to the Finish CR30 6 Star 750pt. - Solo.


    Epic Elite - Against the Demon Queen [Part_1] - Solo.


    Epic Elite - House of Rusted Blades - Solo.


    Epic Elite - Bargain of Blood - Solo.


    Epic Elite - Chains of Flame - Solo.


    Epic Elite - 4man ADQ2 + Spectator [No Healer]

    Last edited by Zerkul; 03-19-2013 at 02:39 PM.
    Guild Leader of "GODS - Guardians Of the Dragon Sanctuary" on Cannith --- My Characters: Zavarthak (20 Barbarian Frenzied/Ravager DPS - MAIN), Ryumajin (Warlock,), Leohands (Evocation FVS firstlife), Galvano (Paladin TWF). - If you like or find useful my posts, consider adding reputation.

  2. #2
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    wow no replies? has anyone else tried this?

  3. #3
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Not much to comment on, as OP didn't list full build etc. I am curious why he(?) went d.axe rather than b.sword (is it just for Headman's Chop?); and in particular if OP feels that epic Chimera's Fang (the obvious choice for human SDs `til now) has become obsolete in U14.

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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    Not much to comment on, as OP didn't list full build etc. I am curious why he(?) went d.axe rather than b.sword (is it just for Headman's Chop?); and in particular if OP feels that epic Chimera's Fang (the obvious choice for human SDs `til now) has become obsolete in U14.
    ML20 Greater Bane Daxe is going to be better - 18% - than the eFang and doesn't require 3 feats.
    Varz
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  5. #5
    Community Member Zerkul's Avatar
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    The reason is simple. I threw a rock in the pond for the people who like to test themselves and think carefully about their builds. If i gave you the build exactely you would just copy it.

    Regarding the Chimera's Fang ... Yes, if you run Legendary Dreadnought that weapon is absolutely obsolete and suboptimal DPS choice. One of the builds aim is to achieve high DPS using onehanded weapon and a shield. The only way to diminish this gap confronting to the DPS king classes is to use the best you can have, that's to say D-Axe.

    PS: My Greater Banes holy burst cannith crafted weapons are epic weapon ... 2[d10].
    Last edited by Zerkul; 08-25-2012 at 05:46 AM.
    Guild Leader of "GODS - Guardians Of the Dragon Sanctuary" on Cannith --- My Characters: Zavarthak (20 Barbarian Frenzied/Ravager DPS - MAIN), Ryumajin (Warlock,), Leohands (Evocation FVS firstlife), Galvano (Paladin TWF). - If you like or find useful my posts, consider adding reputation.

  6. #6
    The Hatchery sirgog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    Not much to comment on, as OP didn't list full build etc. I am curious why he(?) went d.axe rather than b.sword (is it just for Headman's Chop?); and in particular if OP feels that epic Chimera's Fang (the obvious choice for human SDs `til now) has become obsolete in U14.
    D-axes and B-swords are equivalent in base DPS.

    The B-sword gets a slightly bigger boost from Seeker items and burst effects than the D-axe, but the D-axe gets much, much more out of the Drow weapons and that makes them slightly better overall.

  7. #7
    Community Member Zerkul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sirgog View Post
    D-axes and B-swords are equivalent in base DPS.

    The B-sword gets a slightly bigger boost from Seeker items and burst effects than the D-axe, but the D-axe gets much, much more out of the Drow weapons and that makes them slightly better overall.
    Yes. In fact one of the weapon sets i use most have the Duergar Warxe in it tagged with an Alchemical Shield triple air but right now a Cannith Crafted Beater with 2[d10] base damage should be slightly better than a Duergar Waraxe damage-wise. For trash mobs i'm using a triple acid alchemical D-Axe because of the CC you can do that makes helpless mobs alongside with stun and benefits from combat brute and sense weakness: easy 1,5k crits on onehanded weapon.
    Last edited by Zerkul; 08-25-2012 at 10:34 AM.
    Guild Leader of "GODS - Guardians Of the Dragon Sanctuary" on Cannith --- My Characters: Zavarthak (20 Barbarian Frenzied/Ravager DPS - MAIN), Ryumajin (Warlock,), Leohands (Evocation FVS firstlife), Galvano (Paladin TWF). - If you like or find useful my posts, consider adding reputation.

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    What can your intim get to?
    Personal d000m level: 83%

    Quote Originally Posted by zwiebelring View Post
    Ape_Man does clever trolling nothing more. Don't feed him/her.

  9. #9
    Community Member Zerkul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ape_Man View Post
    What can your intim get to?
    When i go for Sentinel Tanking i have this Intimi Breakdown all the time with the Draconic Presence Twist:

    23 Ranks
    +5 from 20 Charisma (8base+4tome+6enhancment+2yugopot)
    +2 Barbarian Active PL Feat (substitution from toughness)
    +6 Sentinel Destiny
    +6 Stalwart Defender
    +2 Intimidate Enhancement
    +2 Favor Feat from Coinlords
    +20 Epic Brawn's Spirit
    +4 Large guild augment slot placed on a Cannith Crafted Neclace Wisdom +6/Protection +5
    +4 Greater Heroism
    +6 Charisma Skills Belt
    +3 Draconic Presence
    +2 Luck Bonus from greenslot
    +5 From gloves of the Claw
    = +90 Intimidate Bonus all the time self buffed

    I'm a bit weak on the intimi side so when going for EADQ2 or when i'll go for EELOB i'll use some abishai cookies or twink my charisma higher or click the +5 skill boost with the right timing. I personally didn't want to gimp my strength or constitution to get higher charisma. Don't know yet if i'll have to i have no idea which is the no fail intimi for EELOB. But considering the awesome DPS this build has confronting to the other "tanks" even while Sentinel i have absolutely no problems keeping aggro, not even when the barbarians swings their epic moment in fury.
    Last edited by Zerkul; 09-07-2012 at 01:41 PM.
    Guild Leader of "GODS - Guardians Of the Dragon Sanctuary" on Cannith --- My Characters: Zavarthak (20 Barbarian Frenzied/Ravager DPS - MAIN), Ryumajin (Warlock,), Leohands (Evocation FVS firstlife), Galvano (Paladin TWF). - If you like or find useful my posts, consider adding reputation.

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    it's about 105 for EELOB and I've been informed it's the same for Lailat.
    Personal d000m level: 83%

    Quote Originally Posted by zwiebelring View Post
    Ape_Man does clever trolling nothing more. Don't feed him/her.

  11. #11
    Community Member Zerkul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ape_Man View Post
    it's about 105 for EELOB and I've been informed it's the same for Lailat.
    Well then i'll have to twink the build a little for that. Or maybe just play with the Fleshshaper brigadine extra aggro gen.
    Guild Leader of "GODS - Guardians Of the Dragon Sanctuary" on Cannith --- My Characters: Zavarthak (20 Barbarian Frenzied/Ravager DPS - MAIN), Ryumajin (Warlock,), Leohands (Evocation FVS firstlife), Galvano (Paladin TWF). - If you like or find useful my posts, consider adding reputation.

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    Community Member Zerkul's Avatar
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    I'm adding and will add later on some Media about the build and how it performs. Right now i'm uploading some stuff about an Epic Elite Bargain of Blood i did solo.

    EDIT: Video uploading finished.
    EDIT: Added Screenshots of EE Chains of Flame.
    Last edited by Zerkul; 09-08-2012 at 12:27 PM.
    Guild Leader of "GODS - Guardians Of the Dragon Sanctuary" on Cannith --- My Characters: Zavarthak (20 Barbarian Frenzied/Ravager DPS - MAIN), Ryumajin (Warlock,), Leohands (Evocation FVS firstlife), Galvano (Paladin TWF). - If you like or find useful my posts, consider adding reputation.

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    Have you put together a gear list?
    Varz
    Wanderlust

  14. #14
    Community Member Zerkul's Avatar
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    Default Gear List

    Quote Originally Posted by emptysands View Post
    Have you put together a gear list?
    This is what i'm currently using.



    As i already wrote in the guide lines the first equipment priority is to have high Strength then some stuff for DPS then survivability. The double set allows me to buff up different aspects of the character (offense and defense) and the bonuses to strength in this equipment template are very high. Currently i run 54 Str and 44 Con all the time after shipbuffs and often drink yugo pot str when i know i've not to face some willsaves challenge to further boost my tactics DCs. The choice of water on the tower shield is because cold is the less immune element right now: just skeletons and some rare mobs are immune to ice, so it hits boh devils and demons.
    Last edited by Zerkul; 09-12-2012 at 07:28 AM. Reason: title
    Guild Leader of "GODS - Guardians Of the Dragon Sanctuary" on Cannith --- My Characters: Zavarthak (20 Barbarian Frenzied/Ravager DPS - MAIN), Ryumajin (Warlock,), Leohands (Evocation FVS firstlife), Galvano (Paladin TWF). - If you like or find useful my posts, consider adding reputation.

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    Community Member Bart_D's Avatar
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    Very interesting, thanks for posting. There's a couple of things I don't understand...

    - Why do you have Greater Weapon Focus (Slashing), is it needed for something or just an extra +1 to attack?
    - Isn't it Smoke that can have +5 charisma skills? (are Smoke and Mineral swapped?)
    - What does the Epic Scorched Bracers give you? Do you use a third Abishai item (boots? swap-in-Gem?) for set bonus?
    - It seems the Claw set will break both Abishai and PDK sets... do you ever use it? If you do, I guess it must be for the 20% threat?
    - You mention blur and wear a Smoke item (unless Smoke<->HP) but isn't it easier to have blur cast on you, and save a slot?

    I'm sorry if the the questions are way off, just trying to understand
    Last edited by Bart_D; 09-10-2012 at 10:54 AM. Reason: Lots of questions

  16. #16
    Community Member Zerkul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bart_D View Post
    Very interesting, thanks for posting. There's a couple of things I don't understand...

    - Why do you have Greater Weapon Focus (Slashing), is it needed for something or just an extra +1 to attack?
    - Isn't it Smoke that can have +5 charisma skills? (are Smoke and Mineral swapped?)
    - What does the Epic Scorched Bracers give you? Do you use a third Abishai item (boots? swap-in-Gem?) for set bonus?
    - It seems the Claw set will break both Abishai and PDK sets... do you ever use it? If you do, I guess it must be for the 20% threat?
    - You mention blur and wear a Smoke item (unless Smoke<->HP) but isn't it easier to have blur cast on you, and save a slot?

    I'm sorry if the the questions are way off, just trying to understand
    Yes Smoke is my HP item but i have another pair of Goggles which is Radiance still HP item. When someone gives me Blur i swap to Radiance ones. Greensteel belt is for Charisma Skills, actually i have that mineral for backup when i swap to another armor tha doesn't have Heavy Fort else i just use a triple air with +6 Cha skills. The Mineral is intended as well as a swap in when tanking bosses that decrease your fortification because when doing so i swap necklace for a Fortifying 25% one and loose the protection bonus to AC.

    Scorched Bracers makes up the Set bonus i need to get +3 Str and +3 AC.

    Indeed Claw breaks PDK set and if no gem Abishai as well but that's a good backup if you encounter any nasty DPS which start to DPS you boss straight without waiting you to build aggro. You know some people just want to play dirty and have a nice game called steal the aggro of the Stalwart (sadly i used to do the same when Kensai). Usually i use no Incite Gear except for the Brawn's Spirit which gives me intimidate bonus because my DPS is that solid i just need Stance to keep aggro most of the time.

    Greater Weapon Focus is prerequisite to Greater Weapon Specialization (+2 Damage) and this one is prerequisite for Dwarven Axe Specialization II enhancement (+1 Damage) so +3 damage lost if you dont take it.

    The other Armors i have in inventory are Epic Demonscale Armor (trades part of the PRR for Elemental Absorption) and Beholderplate which gives you a aggro proc that could come handy for Elob Tanking.

    Hope everything is clear.

    EDIT: Looks like Greater Weapon Focus is not prerequisite for Greater Weapon Specialization!!
    Last edited by Zerkul; 09-10-2012 at 11:37 AM.
    Guild Leader of "GODS - Guardians Of the Dragon Sanctuary" on Cannith --- My Characters: Zavarthak (20 Barbarian Frenzied/Ravager DPS - MAIN), Ryumajin (Warlock,), Leohands (Evocation FVS firstlife), Galvano (Paladin TWF). - If you like or find useful my posts, consider adding reputation.

  17. #17
    Community Member Ap0k's Avatar
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    just a little suggestion for your equipment layout. I just recently came across a +8 str bracers with superior parrying. thats some easy to get item that can replace your abishai bracers that dont do anything for you except if you wear the set. adds +4 saves and ac and also frees up your trinket slot (seeing as you dont use a Citw weapon).

    whoops you posted before me...ok you wear the set...but when you dont, my suggestion is still valid

    and while am at it:

    greater weapon focus is NOT a pre requisite for greater weapon spec! save yourself that feat. only kensai's take those weapon focus feats to get the extended crit. i know i know...i always thought its a pre as well...but its not.
    Last edited by Ap0k; 09-10-2012 at 11:26 AM.
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  18. #18
    Community Member Zerkul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ap0k View Post
    just a little suggestion for your equipment layout. I just recently came across a +8 str bracers with superior parrying. thats some easy to get item that can replace your abishai bracers that dont do anything for you except if you wear the set. adds +4 saves and ac and also frees up your trinket slot (seeing as you dont use a Citw weapon).
    I have such item but +4 AC insight comes already into the Shield i'm using. I swap in this item only when i know i need a saves boost.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ap0k View Post
    greater weapon focus is NOT a pre requisite for greater weapon spec! save yourself that feat. only kensai's take those weapon focus feats to get the extended crit. i know i know...i always thought its a pre as well...but its not.
    EDIT: Oh my... it's true. This is quite strange: DDOWiki:Greater Weapon Specialization VS SRD:Greater Weapon Specialization.
    Last edited by Zerkul; 09-10-2012 at 11:36 AM.
    Guild Leader of "GODS - Guardians Of the Dragon Sanctuary" on Cannith --- My Characters: Zavarthak (20 Barbarian Frenzied/Ravager DPS - MAIN), Ryumajin (Warlock,), Leohands (Evocation FVS firstlife), Galvano (Paladin TWF). - If you like or find useful my posts, consider adding reputation.

  19. #19
    Community Member Ap0k's Avatar
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    and just an fyi because i failed to comment on the build. I like it...that its a human is an abomination but i like it

    Im in the planning stages for a dwarf myself. Sadly i think i will have to do some lob runs to get that alchemical tower shield ... i really want to max out the doublestrike.
    Aggrom - Zenjin - Kaylam - Ciryll
    Ghallanda

    Playing DDO since April 2006

  20. #20
    The Hatchery NytCrawlr's Avatar
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    Would love a Str breakdown. Fighting to just hit 50 temporarily on my Stalwart, so I am curious as to what I am missing.

    I'm at a 42 (16 base + 6 level gives me a 22 base), with ship, and yugo I can maintain 46 for awhile and then titan's takes me to 50 for a minute.


    Regardless, great build, thinking of going this way myself just for something different and despite being attached to the chimera + dragonmark build that I have been playing for awhile now.

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