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  1. #41
    Community Member chrichton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    Which is why it is so bizarre to me that you are declaring fully half of all shards as off limits for leveling, even though in many cases they cost the same or fewer essences per xp.
    Maybe we are talking about different things. Are you talking about comparing the same shard effect?

    Here is what I am talking about:
    - at any given level, if you look at both bound and unbound shards that are at the **same completion chance**, the amount of materials required for the bound will be greater than the unbound. Or at least - I can find lower material shards to craft at or near the same completion chance. I will scan - looking of the 9/12 in unbound. Usually, if I find some, if I look in the bound list, the materials for the shards I can craft will be higher.

    I also admit that, because I craft in bursts (using crafting XP pot), I check the lists first, then do my crafting. I don't have time while the XP pot is counting down to examine exactly how the XP drops for subsequent crafting of the same shard. I may do "a few " in a row, if the material amounts are "small". I also do not go back and forth between bound / unbound.
    Been playing off and on since Beta
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  2. #42
    Community Member chrichton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qaliya View Post
    Good point, Ellis. I was forgetting to take into account the extra cost of making two shards versus one! Duh....

    In the end, I found the best approach was to use the lowest success chance shard among those with the lowest cost. Sometimes this meant doing them at 50%, sometimes as high as 100%.

    And every level you need to check if a new shard option has become available that is a "good deal".
    This is similar to the conclusion I came to as well.
    Been playing off and on since Beta
    currently: taking a break from DDO (on Thelanis)

  3. #43
    Community Member Postumus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qaliya View Post
    Well, if anyone is still following this... I leveled myself up to 84 in each category last night. Was surprised that it didn't take nearly as long as I expected. I was using at first a freebie +10% XP pot and then store-bought +25% pots. They are really cheap and a great deal for anyone who has some TP lying around.

    My essence stockpile is dwindling and I am going to start running out of some types soon, but I should be able to get a few more levels I think before I have to either stop or buy more.

    I leveled up about 90% using unbound shards. At nearly every level, they were a more cost-effective option, not even taking into account the potential for selling them (which I mostly have not done.)

    Thanks again for all the advice!
    Nice. It gets a lot harder from here on out. It is probably faster to TR into a human arti with dragonmarks at this point than to save up for another crafting burst.

    At this point crunching +5 items (or higher) is a good way to keep the crafting levels slowly increasing so by the time you hit L20 on your arti, you'll have around 110 in each level.

    Pay special attention to the next time there is a 'double crafting xp' bonus. It can be a lot cheaper to buy +4 and +5 junk off the AH and gain 8-10xp per decon than buying essences to craft shards.

  4. #44
    Community Member chrichton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    He's saying that in all cases unbound are cheaper and that you shouldn't even bother to check the bound machines.
    It has been my experience, each time I go to check on the bound shards list, I always go back to the unbound.

    Another thing to note - I used solely the bound shards when I first started Cannith crafting I did not even look in the unbound list at all. (If you recall, unbound shards were not yet available when Cannith crafting was first made available.) Then - at maybe crafting levels around 30 or so (can't remember) I heard here on the forums that unbound can be better. I started looking at unbound and found them to be "better" in all cases ever since. My crafting levels are now 67-70 (I am due for another session). So - technically - maybe bound is "better" than unbound at the very low crafting levels.
    Been playing off and on since Beta
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  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Postumus View Post
    Nice. It gets a lot harder from here on out. It is probably faster to TR into a human arti with dragonmarks at this point than to save up for another crafting burst.

    At this point crunching +5 items (or higher) is a good way to keep the crafting levels slowly increasing so by the time you hit L20 on your arti, you'll have around 110 in each level.

    Pay special attention to the next time there is a 'double crafting xp' bonus. It can be a lot cheaper to buy +4 and +5 junk off the AH and gain 8-10xp per decon than buying essences to craft shards.
    Thanks.

    If I TR into a human artificer and use those dragonmarks, they only last until I TR again, right? If so I probably won't bother, as I prefer being a toaster as an arcane.

  6. #46
    Community Member fco-karatekid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fco-karatekid View Post
    IMHO there's really no "efficient" way to lvl cannith crafting up once past level 45 or so - it's a time-consuming drag.

    I will say the 54-64% success range tends to be where my character does really well, xp-vs-failure taken into account.

    I hadn't tried unbound shards much till this past couple weeks - and then only sporadically. I'm gonna try those for a while now (currently at 55 across the board) and see if I have been missing out. Didn't care to try to sell on AH, because I assumed noone would buy even deeply-discounted shards unless they were the more popular/higher level ones.
    OK, update: I don't know if it's more efficient from a crafting ingredient perspective, but I know it's faster now - in about 4 sessions spread out since this post (can't sit and craft longer than about 15-20 minutes because it makes me want to kick puppies), I went from 55 across the board to low 60's. Unbound shards are definitely faster in this level range.

    And no, selling lower level shards even at a deep discount isn't quick or highly profitable. What doesn't sell I'll try to scrunch for essences.

  7. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by chrichton View Post
    Maybe we are talking about different things. Are you talking about comparing the same shard effect?
    No, I'm talking about comparing 9/12 (11.4 greaters) unbound recipes that have the same % chance as 6/32 (12.4 greaters) bound recipes.

    I hope you guys weren't skipping the bound save shards (reflex, fortitude, will, enchantment, poison) under the logic that unbound is better, since those are the best levelers there are. Similarly, the spell clickies (ardor, etc...) are great levelers. All good leveling shards are good in both bound and unbound form.

    As a general rule, sure, unbound could very well be better than bound. But you're hurting your progress if you completely ignore the bound machine. Especially at high levels, where the 100-110 range has 30/80 and 45/192 unbound recipes compared to 10/80 bound ones.

  8. #48
    Community Member xxScoobyDooxx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stoerm View Post
    For those without free health care, I recommend a good health plan for the inevitable carpal tunnel syndrome. It's bad enough with plain crafting and deconstruction. It becomes hell if you have to break down greaters into lessers.

    If only there was an autofire kind of thing for mouse clicks. I'd call it "MouseAutoFire" or perhaps "MouseFire"...

    Disclaimer: Turbine prohibits use of software to interact with the game.
    The answer is "Slave Labour" - I paid my 7 year old son 50 cents per 1000 mats broken down. He loved it ... though it was Christmas earning $5 bucks that day. He actually nags me now to see if I need any more.
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  9. #49
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    I wish there was some way to go the other way. I have thousands of lessers now and have mostly run out of greaters. This is in part because of how I leveled, but also because I have deconstructed thousands of items, and that mostly gives lessers.

    There needs to be a way to get more greaters. The only way I can see to get them is in chests, and that's painfully random and slow.

  10. #50

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    Yeah, running low on greaters has been quite annoying ever since they removed the mechanic that let you convrt lessers to greaters.

    Your best bet is to offer trades in trade channel in the crafting hall offering 500 lessers for 100 greaters. That's 100 mouse clicks you save someone.

  11. #51
    Community Member Bart_D's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    Yeah, running low on greaters has been quite annoying ever since they removed the mechanic that let you convrt lessers to greaters.

    Your best bet is to offer trades in trade channel in the crafting hall offering 500 lessers for 100 greaters. That's 100 mouse clicks you save someone.
    I would take that offer in a heartbeat, any chance you play on Ghallanda?

    Anyway, regarding the discussion of efficient crafting... I try to choose the next shard to craft by maximizing E[xp/shard] which (i think) is calculated as Succ*XP/(Cost+Cost*(1-Succ)^2) = Succ*XP/Cost / (1+(1-Succ)^2) where the last term adjusts for the cost of failed attempts.

  12. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bart_D View Post
    I would take that offer in a heartbeat, any chance you play on Ghallanda?
    Nah, with crafting levels in the low 100s I've shut down all leveling and basically just decon 5s (or higher, now) to keep a reasonable supply of lessers. So I'm basically in the same boat you are, and yeah, I'd be all over any "my 500 lessers for your 100 greaters" exchanges.

  13. #53
    The Hatchery jejeba86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xxScoobyDooxx View Post
    The answer is "Slave Labour" - I paid my 7 year old son 50 cents per 1000 mats broken down. He loved it ... though it was Christmas earning $5 bucks that day. He actually nags me now to see if I need any more.
    hahahahaha, nice one!
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  14. #54
    Community Member Stoner81's Avatar
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    Default Quick question.

    Some interesting reading here and a lot of very handy hints/tips so thanks for that, now on to my question.

    A few people in the thread have mentioned about Artificers automatically gaining crafting levels, my crafter is a 1st life Wizard atm and I plan on TR'ing him in to a Warforged Artificer (never played a WF toon or an Artificer so I thought to lump them together). Now does the automatic crafting levels work on a Warforged since it seems the recommendation is to go Human? Also if I ever decided to TR the Artificer in to something would I lose those crafting levels.

    My current crafting levels are 80 Arcane, 75 Divine and 75 Elemental.

    Thank you in advance for any help on this

    Stoner81.

  15. #55

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    I suspect that bound shards are now the cheaper ones since lessers were lowered in most recipes and lessers comprised a much higher percentage of bound shard costs than unbound.

    I wouldn't worry about going human on your artie; you get 10 free levels for artie and 10 free levels from human dragonmarks for a total of 20. Just getting 10 is fine; my crafter has no free levels at all and he does pretty much everything I want him to.

    You will lose those 10 free levels if you tr out of artie, but again, having no free levels at all I don't see that as a huge issue.

  16. #56
    Community Member Stoner81's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EllisDee37 View Post
    I wouldn't worry about going human on your artie; you get 10 free levels for artie and 10 free levels from human dragonmarks for a total of 20. Just getting 10 is fine; my crafter has no free levels at all and he does pretty much everything I want him to.

    You will lose those 10 free levels if you tr out of artie, but again, having no free levels at all I don't see that as a huge issue.
    Thanks for the information! I plan on getting him to at least lvl 100 in all crafting schools as a bare minimum and might go higher depending on what I am after making will just have to wait and see.

    Thanks again for the help

    Stoner81.

  17. #57
    Community Member TheGuyYouKnow's Avatar
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    if i recall the most efficient way to craft is to make an extremely low requirement shard and deconstruct it back for 1 xp and some of the essence back, that is of cause extremely time consuming though.

    aside from that just look at the requirements for crafting each shard and make what looks good
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  18. #58
    Community Member Brennie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGuyYouKnow View Post
    if i recall the most efficient way to craft is to make an extremely low requirement shard and deconstruct it back for 1 xp and some of the essence back, that is of cause extremely time consuming though.

    aside from that just look at the requirements for crafting each shard and make what looks good
    Deconning shards no longer gives XP. So making boatloads of the cheapest possible shards and deconning them all is a thing of the past, unfortunately. Though it may save some people from carpel tunnel...

    As to OP - Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the unbound shards get a revamp in how many essences they cost? I would think this would put them head and shoulders above the bound shards for XP purposes now, no?

  19. #59
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    My basic strategy is to use the maximum xp elixir, (make sure that you have enough essences) I also use the 20% booster for any 50% shard until I have successfully crafted it twice. Never use them past 80%. Remember if it is a lvl 30 shard you can attempt at 50% success at lvl 20. 3-4 xp elixers is more than enough to get you from lvl 30-lvl 140. You just need to have all the essences and don’t waste your time, have everything planned out. So for less than 300 TP investment you can quickly get to 150 with less essences. If you don’t want to use TP, then you will use approximately 30% more essences. Making shards of potential are a good way to get your skills up. At least until some things get changed.
    I will make about 6-8 of each of the cheapest shards that give the most xp and only 1-2 of more expensive ones if I cannot go to the next lvl shard. Remember that your success penalty is removed when you TR.

    Below is a short list of what shards to craft and what lvls. I cannot figure out how to attach spreadsheets. or change the font color. I will edit later if someone can share how.

  20. #60
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    Red=only make if you cannot make the next lvl down on the list and still need xp and if you have reduced the xp to below cost effectiveness. IE if you are only getting 20xp from a shard that total cost is 5 but you get 50xp from a shard that only costs 10, make the higher cost one.


    Name Type Level Bound/Unbd Greaters Lessers Total cost
    Potential +6 any 30 bound 25 5
    Lesser Giant Bane arcane 30 unbound 2 4 3
    Lesser Human Bane body 30 unbound 2 4 3
    Fortitude Save +3 body 30 bound 3 12 5+
    Will Save +3 mind 30 bound 3 12 5+
    Impact +10 arcane 31 bound 3 12 5+
    Mending +10 arcane 31 bound 3 12 5+
    Enfeebling body 32 bound 6 12 8+
    Diplomacy +3 mind 32 unbound 6 12 8
    Grtr. Spell Pen. II arcane 33 bound 3 12 5+
    Proof Poison +8 body 33 bound 3 12 5+
    Spell Penetration III arcane 33 bound 3 12 5+
    Enchant Save +2 mind 34 unbound 2 4 3
    Construct Fort.10% body 35 bound 3 12 5+
    Potential +7 35 bound 50 *
    Reinf Plating +3 arcane 35 bound 3 12 5+
    Eff. MetamagicExt I arcane 35 bound 3 12 5+
    Enchant Save +4 arcane 36 bound 3 12 5+
    Potential +8 40 bound 100 *
    Fortitude Save +2 body 40 unbound 2 4 3
    Will Save +2 mind 40 unbound 2 4 3
    Fortitude Save +4 body 40 bound 3 12 5+
    Will Save +4 mind 40 bound 3 12 5+

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