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  1. #101
    Community Member nrgould's Avatar
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    Simplified and anecdotal. But me and my friend (me sorc, him barb) ran house of broken chains on EE last night. He couldn't have done it without me, I couldn't have done it without him. We shared the kill count. I'm happy with the power of my full draconic line on top of the water savant stuff. Blowing away a group of drow with energy burst as they all take 5000+ damage is fun when it happens!
    Anyone who thinks that something can be 'foolproof' seriously underestimates the ingenuity of fools.....

  2. #102
    Community Member Ushurak's Avatar
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    I know it has been a few days since anyone has posted but I found this one interesting.

    I am not going to say that you are doing something wrong, I will however, say that you are not doing all that you could/should.

    My Sorc-bot first life with capped Draconic ED was hitting for 2k-15k hp per click depending on what the Spell/SLA was and what type of mob it was.

    TO put it in perspective:

    Roughly 50% of the time I was hitting in the 2k-5k range
    Roughly 25% of the time I was hitting in the 5k-10k range
    Roughly 25% of the time I was hitting in the 10k-15k range

    This is not taking into consideration the Draconic ED Energy Vortex which does a constant "tick" damage of 500-2500hp per tick.


    With all that said, I did opposite of what most are doing with their ED.
    Most that I see discussing Draconic ED are placing quite a bit into a secondary, non-opposing element.
    I went full Water ******...I use force damage if Ice can't harm the mobs.

    Your damage output is close enough that I really think that you just need to do some tweaking.
    Also, I never found the Air Savant to be a great DPS build...not terrible and it has some other nice perks that the other savants do not have; but when stacked beside Water or Fire it just couldn't compete IMHO.

    Maybe try a respec to Ice or Fire and see what kind of damage you put out...you will have your standard 3 day turn around which should give you enough time to compare notes.

    Yes you will lose your FF toggle (Think Prop Boots) and your jump clickie (who cares) but if DPS is your primary concern, I think you will enjoy Ice/Fire...And yes, Fire is now viable again...alot of mobs in the MotUD pack are taking purple damage from fire now, especially in Sschindrylin and Demon Web.

  3. #103
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    Yes you will lose your FF toggle (Think Prop Boots) and your jump clickie (who cares) but if DPS is your primary concern, I think you will enjoy Ice/Fire...And yes, Fire is now viable again...alot of mobs in the MotUD pack are taking purple damage from fire now, especially in Sschindrylin and Demon Web.
    Air savants cant be tripped and are immune to most knock-down effects. This is very significant because DPS does not happen if you're on the ground.

  4. #104
    Community Member Ushurak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by soulaeon View Post
    Air savants cant be tripped and are immune to most knock-down effects. This is very significant because DPS does not happen if you're on the ground.
    meh...It wasn't an issue pre-Savant and not an issue now.
    It's just a perk like anything else and my Water-Savant is no less survivable than an Air-Savant.

    Again...not saying it isn't nice, but we are discussing DPS options and not all the other little perks.
    Now if we were to discuss perks instead of DPS then I would point in the direction of the Air Savant...I'm actually thinking about making one separate from my main sorcbot.

    I'm also not saying the Air Savants are bad...on the contrary, they are very nice.
    My personal flavor though is either water or fire because neither acid nor air can hit the raw numbers (talking about true spells, not ED SLA's) that water/fire can hit.

    With that said, I do not think it would take much tweaking on the part of the devs to get Air Savants up to those numbers...though with all the other perks they get I guess the trade off is fair...Earth Savants on the other hand could use a lot of love. At lvl 6 with acid blast the Earth and Fire savant are tied...but at lvl 8 the fire savant pulls ahead due to WoF and from there they only get stronger until the switch is made to Water.

    The problem is that Earth has no massive damage AoE except for Acid Rain which is severely lack luster from what it once was...after this there really is nothing. I think int he hands of an Earth Savant, cloud kill or some other higher lvl CC acid based spell should be able to compete with Ice storm...and something to compete with Ottilukes as well.

    It would be nice to see Air get a high lvl AoE like "Electrical Storm" or something; but then again they did trade off for the perks so I am not too concerned with them getting the same dps.

  5. #105
    Community Member Xezrak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ushurak View Post
    Roughly 50% of the time I was hitting in the 2k-5k range
    Roughly 25% of the time I was hitting in the 5k-10k range
    Roughly 25% of the time I was hitting in the 10k-15k range
    May I ask how you managed to obtain this type of damage output? Any screen shots of the higher tier damage and and videos would be greatly appreciated.
    "Focus on Adventure Not Grind"

  6. #106
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    Ushurak if your going to make something up, make it a tad more believable, 25% of the time you are doing 10-15k with a single click? come on ...

  7. #107

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    Quote Originally Posted by moo_cow View Post
    Ushurak if your going to make something up, make it a tad more believable, 25% of the time you are doing 10-15k with a single click? come on ...
    Well, you'd have to be critting to get close to that amount (on a helpless and/or type vulnerable mob). Last time
    I checked that max. crit chance was 21%.

  8. #108
    Community Member spectroum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ushurak View Post
    My personal flavor though is either water or fire because neither acid nor air can hit the raw numbers (talking about true spells, not ED SLA's) that water/fire can hit.
    uhmm why exactly do u think air savants dont hit raw numbers??
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  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by spectroum View Post
    uhmm why exactly do u think air savants dont hit raw numbers??
    Because he doesn't play/haven't playied enough one probably.

  10. #110
    Community Member Zerkul's Avatar
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    Once every 30 seconds and once every minute you have a 21% chance to crit over 13k with Draconic SLA on held mob. Very situational.

    Air Savant is not far behind in DPS from the Water/Ice one. Still behind but i get additional survivability boost from air dance and immunity to knockdown and furthermore i can build around enchantment and sense weakness to further boost my held mobs damage. MY Draconic Breath hits for over 15k because i have sense weakness (i do 30% more damage on held mobs), yours to do the same have to be cast on weak-element mob.

    Anyway while i'm at it i'll remind everyone what this thread was made up for:

    • Sorcerers are not gimp but their burst DPS should be higher because you mana dump (not talking about draconic SLA which are already nice as they are) and they are not the best caster class to go for in EE content, unless very good equipped;
    • Sorcerers Capstone is one of the most weak casptone: 20 spell power over the top of 300 base + metamagics (150+75) it's a very small % of your total power, something between 3% and 4% improvement in DPS.
    • Sorcerers still suffer a bug which makes dots and some other spells not benefit from caster level increase.
    Last edited by Zerkul; 10-11-2012 at 05:09 AM.
    Guild Leader of "GODS - Guardians Of the Dragon Sanctuary" on Cannith --- My Characters: Zavarthak (20 Barbarian Frenzied/Ravager DPS - MAIN), Ryumajin (Warlock,), Leohands (Evocation FVS firstlife), Galvano (Paladin TWF). - If you like or find useful my posts, consider adding reputation.

  11. #111
    Community Member Ushurak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spectroum View Post
    uhmm why exactly do u think air savants dont hit raw numbers??
    Because I have played an Air Savant at lvl 25 with max ED.
    I have plenty of dragonbloods horded up and a 3 day turn around on enhancement resets doesn't make it that hard to play any savant you want for 3 days at a time on the same Sorc-bot.

    I've tested it out.
    They do ok...and like I said above...I'm not knocking the AS at all (though it does seem like some are trying to make it look like I said that), but the numbers just are not there. The numbers are respectable, but my TWF FS melee numbers are respectable as well...but put him next to a barb and there is a big difference.

  12. #112
    Community Member Zerkul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ushurak View Post
    Because I have played an Air Savant at lvl 25 with max ED.
    I have plenty of dragonbloods horded up and a 3 day turn around on enhancement resets doesn't make it that hard to play any savant you want for 3 days at a time on the same Sorc-bot.

    I've tested it out.
    They do ok...and like I said above...I'm not knocking the AS at all (though it does seem like some are trying to make it look like I said that), but the numbers just are not there. The numbers are respectable, but my TWF FS melee numbers are respectable as well...but put him next to a barb and there is a big difference.
    Did you try to go full DPS using the nuking rotation illustrated in one of my previous posts?

    Air Savants numbers are lower but the correct nuking rotation approaches the water savant DPS. Basically to achieve high dps using air savant you need to spam lightning bolt:
    Dot, Dot, Lightning bolt, Polar Ray, Lightning Bolt, Chain lightning, Lightning bolt, Polar Ray, Lightning Bolt, Chain lightning,dot,dot, etc.

    Lightning bolt is a very good DPS (not damage spell) and you can alternate standard lightning with SLA one for cheap nuking. The Lightning bolt cooldown is what makes the spell strong and the 50% doublestrike further boosts this. It does on average almost as much damage as Chain Lightning with the difference that can be spammed more during any nuking rotation.

    Dont stop yourself to mere numbers. What this thread is all about is dps not high crits.
    Guild Leader of "GODS - Guardians Of the Dragon Sanctuary" on Cannith --- My Characters: Zavarthak (20 Barbarian Frenzied/Ravager DPS - MAIN), Ryumajin (Warlock,), Leohands (Evocation FVS firstlife), Galvano (Paladin TWF). - If you like or find useful my posts, consider adding reputation.

  13. #113
    Community Member Ushurak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xezrak View Post
    May I ask how you managed to obtain this type of damage output? Any screen shots of the higher tier damage and and videos would be greatly appreciated.
    I guess I should take more screen shots..I have only taken 1 screen shot since I started playing and it wasn't for any kind of proof...it was just a cool pic. I have no reason to.

    I am not the type of player to take screen shots of every single thing I do so I can show everyone else. I didn't say it for the purposes of bragging, I said it to make the point that the op was feeling like the AS was lacking in damage output, I am merely trying to figure out if the AS is truly lacking or if he is putting up the proper numbers for an AS which is a tad less than the WS...nothing more.

  14. #114
    Community Member Ushurak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zerkul View Post
    Once every 30 seconds and once every minute you have a 21% chance to crit over 13k with Draconic SLA on held mob. Very situational.

    Air Savant is not far behind in DPS from the Water/Ice one. Still behind but i get additional survivability boost from air dance and immunity to knockdown and furthermore i can build around enchantment and sense weakness to further boost my held mobs damage. MY Draconic Breath hits for over 15k because i have sense weakness (i do 30% more damage on held mobs), yours to do the same have to be cast on weak-element mob.

    Anyway while i'm at it i'll remind everyone what this thread was made up for:

    • Sorcerers are not gimp but their burst DPS should be higher because you mana dump (not talking about draconic SLA which are already nice as they are) and they are not the best caster class to go for in EE content, unless very good equipped;
    • Sorcerers Capstone is one of the most weak casptone: 20 spell power over the top of 300 base + metamagics (150+75) it's a very small % of your total power, something between 3% and 4% improvement in DPS.
    • Sorcerers still suffer a bug which makes dots and some other spells not benefit from caster level increase.
    Agreed - and your main paragraph is really all I was trying to get at with any of my posts - sorry to all those that got offended and felt like I was trying to something other than what I actually DID say...come run with me (Deadbot on Argo server) and you will find I am an easy going, fun loving guy. I'm really not rude nor am I an elitist nor do I brag about my accomplishments. If you are on Argo, please come look me up.

    You may even know the name already and have run with me.

  15. #115
    Community Member Zerkul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ushurak View Post
    Agreed - and your main paragraph is really all I was trying to get at with any of my posts - sorry to all those that got offended and felt like I was trying to something other than what I actually DID say...come run with me (Deadbot on Argo server) and you will find I am an easy going, fun loving guy. I'm really not rude nor am I an elitist nor do I brag about my accomplishments. If you are on Argo, please come look me up.

    You may even know the name already and have run with me.
    That's a nice offer i really wish to be on another server honestly. Few friends in my guild and nonguildies are the only ties i have to Cannith so i'm sorry cannot come quest with you . Anyway just to be clear i'll do a video of my Sorcrer soloing and EE quest just to show you which is the top performance an AS can achieve in real combat situation. Of course there can be few people better than me on other servers (probably no other sorcerer on Cannith) but there are many others which don't even approach the level of my equipment / TR / fatepoints.

    I'll make it and upload so stay tuned.
    Guild Leader of "GODS - Guardians Of the Dragon Sanctuary" on Cannith --- My Characters: Zavarthak (20 Barbarian Frenzied/Ravager DPS - MAIN), Ryumajin (Warlock,), Leohands (Evocation FVS firstlife), Galvano (Paladin TWF). - If you like or find useful my posts, consider adding reputation.

  16. #116

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zerkul View Post
    That's a nice offer i really wish to be on another server honestly. Few friends in my guild and nonguildies are the only ties i have to Cannith so i'm sorry cannot come quest with you . Anyway just to be clear i'll do a video of my Sorcrer soloing and EE quest just to show you which is the top performance an AS can achieve in real combat situation. Of course there can be few people better than me on other servers (probably no other sorcerer on Cannith) but there are many others which don't even approach the level of my equipment / TR / fatepoints.

    I'll make it and upload so stay tuned.
    Look forward to it!

  17. #117
    Community Member Ushurak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by knockcocker View Post
    Look forward to it!
    Me too, I would really like to see if I could eek out some more DPS somewhere or take notes on some tweaks I could make with spell/equipment slotting.

  18. #118
    Community Member Ushurak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zerkul View Post
    Did you try to go full DPS using the nuking rotation illustrated in one of my previous posts?

    Air Savants numbers are lower but the correct nuking rotation approaches the water savant DPS. Basically to achieve high dps using air savant you need to spam lightning bolt:
    Dot, Dot, Lightning bolt, Polar Ray, Lightning Bolt, Chain lightning, Lightning bolt, Polar Ray, Lightning Bolt, Chain lightning,dot,dot, etc.

    Lightning bolt is a very good DPS (not damage spell) and you can alternate standard lightning with SLA one for cheap nuking. The Lightning bolt cooldown is what makes the spell strong and the 50% doublestrike further boosts this. It does on average almost as much damage as Chain Lightning with the difference that can be spammed more during any nuking rotation.

    Dont stop yourself to mere numbers. What this thread is all about is dps not high crits.
    No, admittedly I did not do this exact rotation.
    I tend to hit whatever comes off of cool down first.
    This particular thread has got me thinking though...once I get back to cap, I am going to swap to AS and stay there for a few days and put it to a harder test than a three day run-of-the-mill questing test.
    I do like the clickies and toggles...

    I will be a little more critical of my testing just to see.
    I'm also going to bookmark this particular thread so I can refer to it once I get up to lvl 20 (I run fire up to savant II, somewhere around 14-16 I switch to ice...haven't tried AS in the vale to see if it is viable or not.).

  19. #119
    Community Member Xezrak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ushurak View Post
    I guess I should take more screen shots..I have only taken 1 screen shot since I started playing and it wasn't for any kind of proof...it was just a cool pic. I have no reason to.

    I am not the type of player to take screen shots of every single thing I do so I can show everyone else. I didn't say it for the purposes of bragging, I said it to make the point that the op was feeling like the AS was lacking in damage output, I am merely trying to figure out if the AS is truly lacking or if he is putting up the proper numbers for an AS which is a tad less than the WS...nothing more.
    The reason why I am asking for a screenshot i because the damage numbers you are quoting are highly situational and I am not sure if it is just me but in your previous post the way you have stated those damage numbers it appears as though those are sustainable damage numbers and damage numbers which are sustainable without stuns etc. To me personally at least who plays a WS those numbers and percentage chances appear highly misleading.
    "Focus on Adventure Not Grind"

  20. #120
    Community Member Zerkul's Avatar
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    Smile [Video] Ryumajin of Cannith VS EE Don't Drink the Water Elite

    This is the direct link to the video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xA4q7VRdl_0.

    I posted it as well in the guide section as it can be used as instructional video on EE Green Dragonscales farming http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p...56&postcount=1.

    Let me know what you guys think about it. Especially i want you to watch the difference between trash clearing DPS which is made of few powerful spells (specifically DI Dragon Breath, DI Energy Burst and Chain Lightning) and a full DPS nuking rotation which represent the real Sorcerer DPS in raid/bosses situations (dragon encounter). During the dragon encounter i lowered my DPS a bit to make space in the nuking rotation for the discount clickies else my mana wouldn't have be enough for the kill.

    Well after a lot of pastlives and equipment griding this is the best build i came up with so this is probably one of my best performances on Sorcerer. I personally find more fun to play with fighter these days since he's much more reliable character. Sorcerer is indeed strong and can give a lot to a party but when the instant kill feast starts or you have strong Barbarians with you, Sorcerers can go in the background coming back just for some breaths attacks and energy bursts or for some CC in my case.
    Last edited by Zerkul; 10-11-2012 at 04:28 PM.
    Guild Leader of "GODS - Guardians Of the Dragon Sanctuary" on Cannith --- My Characters: Zavarthak (20 Barbarian Frenzied/Ravager DPS - MAIN), Ryumajin (Warlock,), Leohands (Evocation FVS firstlife), Galvano (Paladin TWF). - If you like or find useful my posts, consider adding reputation.

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